Second home owners reprimanded?

[eddie]

Thank you for the correction. In my opinion it is a fact that the UK housing market is dysfunctional in many ways.

I agree

 

[gus-lopez]

Personally I cannot see any difference between holiday rentals, regardless of where the owner lives, second/third/4th homes, or buy to lets. They all have the same effect of driving up prices.

 

[Landy Andy]

But so does buy to rent, which is the case in the area I live. We also have thousands of houses being built and no new infer structure (if that’s how you spell it), and often these renters spend nothing or very little into the area. They save their money to send to their country of origin.

 

[Tanya_and_Mick]

How is spending measured between locals and non-locals?

 

[Tanya_and_Mick]

. They save their money to send to their country of origin.

Again how do people know this? Do all of these people not of UK origin share what they do with their money?

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[Landy Andy]

Yes. When I work in the houses. And before we start any name calling or accusations, I don’t have a problem with what they are doing. They are just making the most of the UK system.

 

[Tanya_and_Mick]

before we start any name calling or accusations

My question was, how do people know the % of spend from locals vs non-locals or how do people know what persons do with their disposal income (e.g., save, send abroad, eat lots of chocolate)

Do shop owners, landlords or other retailers or service providers keep a profile of their user base

Are there stats from villages, regions to support some of these comments, or are they suggested observations - as a few people have shared what they do with their money or are identifyed by regional accents that they are not locals.....

 

[Paulypaul]

In your opinion

Do I sense a certain amount of tension here with point scoring being the driving force, but that is just my opinion of course.

 

[eddie]

Do I sense a certain amount of tension here with point scoring being the driving force, but that is just my opinion of course.

No, it’s just that some forget it is a forum for discussion

Saying, nonsense, tosh and stupid, repeatedly means that people forget what a forum is

if you want to talk opinionated, unsubstantiated nonsense and not have it challenged, text yourself and pat yourself on your own back as you grumble about others.

Do it on a forum and either expect debate or a request for substantive proof.

I’ll give you an example

Socialists are deluded folk who should grow up and face reality, but find reality just a bit too nasty, didn’t want to leave school and still think Wolife Smith fundamentally cool!

Now if I am rude to anyone that disagrees with this statement, to a point where ‘normal’ people can’t be arsed to keep arguing, it may make me feel I am right, but I would be wrong

 

[Paulypaul]

That's very deep? But yes, I agree, an open forum is a place where opinions, views etc can be debated and one should not be berated just because they hold an opinion that doesn't sit well with someone else. If we all thought the same, how boring?

I'm sure we all draw our opinions from our own experiences, I do at least, and surely that is the way we all become informed on subjects, whether we agree or not?

Some people just want to be objective rather than subjective, but that's also a part of a forum.

As for Wolfie Smith, I never had any true respect for him cause he only pretended to be a cockney!

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[eddie]

That's very deep? But yes, I agree, an open forum is a place where opinions, views etc can be debated and one should not be berated just because they hold an opinion that doesn't sit well with someone else. If we all thought the same, how boring?

I'm sure we all draw our opinions from our own experiences, I do at least, and surely that is the way we all become informed on subjects, whether we agree or not?

Some people just want to be objective rather than subjective, but that's also a part of a forum.

As for Wolfie Smith, I never had any true respect for him cause he only pretended to be a cockney!

He grew up to be a an Admiral in Hornblower ??

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

We also have thousands of houses being built and no new infer structure (if that’s how you spell it),

You need to look at your local council for that.
just built 3 new 5 bed houses in part of my garden and I had to pay the local council £115k for them to pass planning.
this is called a CIL payment or Community infrastructure levy, they are suppose to use it for improvements to local services.
The site just along the road gave £1.5m for the CIL and the 2 others about £1m so far the council have paid out £3k to the fire brigade and £13k to the library!!
The local school has not received anything as they were told they would probably only get an extra 5-10 pupils.
In the last few years there has been about 100 houses in the school catchment area built.

In Chichester there must be about 2-3 thousand houses on the go and no the council have not spent anything.

 

[Landy Andy]

You need to look at your local council for that.
just built 3 new 5 bed houses in part of my garden and I had to pay the local council £115k for them to pass planning.
this is called a CIL payment or Community infrastructure levy, they are suppose to use it for improvements to local services.
The site just along the road gave £1.5m for the CIL and the 2 others about £1m so far the council have paid out £3k to the fire brigade and £13k to the library!!
The local school has not received anything as they were told they would probably only get an extra 5-10 pupils.
In the last few years there has been about 100 houses in the school catchment area built.

In Chichester there must be about 2-3 thousand houses on the go and no the council have not spent anything.

Im not bothered by it, I’m just bringing it to the attention of all the people that live in lovely areas that are complaining about houses purchased as second homes. It’s similar problems here, but no lovely area, and no quiet times, because the twonks live here all the time.

 

[Paulypaul]

You need to look at your local council for that.
just built 3 new 5 bed houses in part of my garden and I had to pay the local council £115k for them to pass planning.
this is called a CIL payment or Community infrastructure levy, they are suppose to use it for improvements to local services.
The site just along the road gave £1.5m for the CIL and the 2 others about £1m so far the council have paid out £3k to the fire brigade and £13k to the library!!
The local school has not received anything as they were told they would probably only get an extra 5-10 pupils.
In the last few years there has been about 100 houses in the school catchment area built.

In Chichester there must be about 2-3 thousand houses on the go and no the council have not spent anything.

Surely that's just a scam by the council who will probably blame lack of infrastructure on lack of funding? Its outrageous, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

 

[buttons]

Well, in our village we have a mixture of second home owners with different sized properties ranging from little 1 bed cottages to huge houses sat in a few acres.

So far, 4 second home owners have escaped London contrary to lockdown rules. One pair are in their design built eco home sat in 3 acres, the others are in small cottages with little or no gardens.

Someone round the corner had obviously called the Police about the apparent disregard for lockdown rules and low and behold the Police turned up yesterday.

So it looks like they're getting pro active and taking a hard line on these people who flout the rules/laws/guidelines, whatever they are.

Alas, it wasn't to be. Apparently they visited the smallest property and the occupants admitted that they had ignored the rules and did understand how serious it was. The Police then decided to advise them that they should make arrangements to leave the village within 7 days and return back to their primary residence in London.

The neighbour who lives in the cottage next door (not sure if this is the complainant) asked the Police if that was all they were doing and whether they were going to do the rounds in the village to the other 3 second homes, particularly the people in the big property who have had gardeners there and visitors etc? They replied saying that they were only acting on a complaint received about this property and didn't intend knocking on anyone else's door.

So, the people who have ignored the rules have been given the all clear to have their Easter weekend in the country and can go home next week.

And we wonder how this virus is able to spread? What's the point of laws if they're not enforced?

It's so contrary to what we are led to believe is the correct way to behave when certain fractions are allowed to continue irrespective of other people around them.

I know it's a well worn topic but I'm just shocked at how some behaviour is almost condoned by the powers to be....we've got no chance of getting out of lockdown at this rate!

I'm no expert but isn't it the traveling too and from a second home that is frowned on. Surely if you are living in your second home from the start and you are up to date with your council tax etc then why are the neighbours getting upset.

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[eddie]

I'm no expert but isn't it the traveling too and from a second home that is frowned on. Surely if you are living in your second home from the start and you are up to date with your council tax etc then why are the neighbours getting upset.

Envy

 

[Paulypaul]

The original post has absolutely nothing to do with "envy" as I stated in post #236, but if that's your answer to why those types of people get criticised then you crack on

 

[gus-lopez]

Surely that's just a scam by the council who will probably blame lack of infrastructure on lack of funding? Its outrageous, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

Been like it since the late 70's when paying for planning was introduced. The fact that the staff were already employed, were still employed even when no planning was applied for doesn't come in to it. If you do not pay the fee that they state planning is refused. Even if the job is not going to cost anything fee is still based on some figure per M2 they dream up.

 

[buttons]

Envy

Quite lightly it is, second homes are a different case than motorhomes flocking to areas where you are not contributing to the local infrastructure. Second home owners are fully paid up members of the community, including the health provisions so why the objections from locals. Yes eddie you are possibly right.

 

[gus-lopez]

Envy

In a few cases ,possibly but in the main if the families turned up before the lock down ,isolated & never left for 14 days before venturing out anywhere then there isn't a problem. It's the others.

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[eddie]

The original post has absolutely nothing to do with "envy" as I stated in post #236, but if that's your answer to why those types of people get criticised then you crack on

Actually I was answering post 285 not the OP

 

[gus-lopez]

Second home owners are fully paid up members of the community, including the health provisions so why the objections from locals.

No they aren't. If not on the electoral roll then the numbers reduce .When they do the council funding & the provison of health care follows as there are no ¡people' theoretically' living there.
Some villages in cornwall only have 20% permanent residents.80% are HH.

 

[MattR]

I'm no expert but isn't it the traveling too and from a second home that is frowned on. Surely if you are living in your second home from the start and you are up to date with your council tax etc then why are the neighbours getting upset.

Many areas with second homes don't have the medical infrastructure to cope with a large increases in numbers - I suspect that health provision is based on GP surgery registrations as an indicator of demand. If you are not registered at the surgery, hospital provision might not account for you as a potential patient. Having thousands of extra people in the hospital catchment area will add to the strain and reduce support for local people.

 

[Paulypaul]

Been like it since the late 70's when paying for planning was introduced. The fact that the staff were already employed, were still employed even when no planning was applied for doesn't come in to it. If you do not pay the fee that they state planning is refused. Even if the job is not going to cost anything fee is still based on some figure per M2 they dream up.

Mmm, I know when we had our extension done w had to pay planning but I never knew it was relative to square metres?

 

[Captain Pants]

Many areas with second homes don't have the medical infrastructure to cope with a large increases in numbers - I suspect that health provision is based on GP surgery registrations as an indicator of demand. If you are not registered at the surgery, hospital provision might not account for you as a potential patient. Having thousands of extra people in the hospital catchment area will add to the strain and reduce support for local people.

That was the original premise of this thread before it got highjacked by accusations of envy and greed as the motivation for people objecting to some selfishly riding out the CV storm in their 2nd home. It was about the potential implications on limited health care systems - nothing more, nothing less. It’s also the position of the UK Government advice to all of us.

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[eddie]

My opinion is that anyone can get ill anywhere. If someone owns a house, pays rates, insures it, maintains it, they have as much right to live there as anyone else, irrespective of whether they may own another property anywhere else.

The crux of this was that we were asked not to make unnecessary journeys, so leaving one safe abode to travel to another is, in my view unnecessary.

The OP said that the Police had been alerted to occupancy of a second home, and was upset nothing was done, as I suggested previousl, perhaps there is a valid reason, and perhaps it would be better to find out why, having dobbed them in, they weren’t kicked out, which I suspect was what the complainant wanted

 

[Stoosal]

Surely that's just a scam by the council who will probably blame lack of infrastructure on lack of funding? Its outrageous, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

Not sure CIL is a ‘scam’...not something I’m keen on but at the end of the day the council has to get funds from somewhere in these times of austerity. They could substantially increase council tax? Is it right that those potentially profiting from building new houses should be asked to contribute if there is additional strains placed on infrastructure? Where new properties are being built there is the potential for additional resources required to meet demand...roads, sewerage, schools and so on. Whether or not these properties are second homes is immaterial as they may not always be and when they are occupied require sewerage etc.. Census figures are used by govt and councils to predict demand over coming years so theoretically figures for places of residence, school pupil numbers and so on are available...note theoretical part! Local authorities also factor in increases in population at peak times eg Fort William sees a dramatic increase in A and E admissions over summer due to mountain biking or hillwalking incidents. Whilst doctor numbers can be increased to deal with these it is harder to have ‘part time’ physical resources.
Planning fees tend to be banded and based on average cost of build per square metre usually based on figures provided by Royal Institute of Charted Surveyors.

 

[Captain Pants]

The crux of this was that we were asked not to make unnecessary journeys, so leaving one safe abode to travel to another is, in my view unnecessary.

Yes, and there was another crux, not to overload NHS services. Services levels are provided on the basis of primary residence, they know you and they’re resourced to deal with you. Where those resources are stretched temporary hospitals have been provided. If hundreds of people choose to reject that and turn up in a different location with one relatively small ICU then that’s a problem. I really don’t see why that is so difficult to understand? Tax payers fund the bulk of NHS services, so paying Council Tax does not bestow entitlement.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

Surely that's just a scam by the council who will probably blame lack of infrastructure on lack of funding? Its outrageous, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

Yep, another way of robbing developers.
Add onto that the £2400 I paid for the migratory bird levy!!
Nope haven’t a clue what that is but a few years beck they went from a few hundred pounds each property to a scale up to 5 bed houses that are £800 each.
They are quick enough to demand council tax on the new properties even before they are occupied.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

Been like it since the late 70's when paying for planning was introduced. The fact that the staff were already employed, were still employed even when no planning was applied for doesn't come in to it. If you do not pay the fee that they state planning is refused. Even if the job is not going to cost anything fee is still based on some figure per M2 they dream up.

Yep, Chichester council are £120 m2 +5% and they also charge for garage area, some councils only charge living area.

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