Second home owners reprimanded?

Surely that's just a scam by the council who will probably blame lack of infrastructure on lack of funding? Its outrageous, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

Since 2010 Local Authority funding has been cut by around 40%, some councils have managed to offset this through local business rates, but the overall impact is an average of 26% cut. These same LA have services that they must maintain by law, adult social care, children services etc. So if they have legally redirected some funding to keep them going isn't that better than things grinding to a halt?
 
Yes, and there was another crux, not to overload NHS services.
Could you show me any Government advice to say that you had to travel to go to your primary residence ?

I haven't seen anything of the kind! I have seen, "Do not make unnecessary journeys"

So if, one was safely isolating in Cornwall, having seen in January that things were likely to get ugly, are you suggesting that someone should make an unnecessary journey back to, say London (against Government advice don't forget) "just in case" their next door neighbour needs a ventilator?

I really don’t see why that is so difficult to understand? Tax payers fund the bulk of NHS services, so paying Council Tax does not bestow entitlement.
It isn't difficult to understand, its wrong. It is the National Health Service and if I have two homes, and decide before the lockdown that I would rather isolate in home A or home B I would have done absolutely nothing wrong.
 
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No they aren't. If not on the electoral roll then the numbers reduce .When they do the council funding & the provison of health care follows as there are no ¡people' theoretically' living there.
Some villages in cornwall only have 20% permanent residents.80% are HH.
Are we talking holiday lets here or permanent second homes. Are you suggesting that the entire nation is now restricted to where they are on the electoral roll. I don't think so gus..... :unsure:
 
A perspective based on declining provision for the NHS... https://www.newstatesman.com/scienc...owners-expose-locals-coronavirus-and-endanger
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GETTY
CORONAVIRUS

8 APRIL 2020
How second home owners expose locals to coronavirus and endanger Britain
New Statesman data analysis finds almost all second-home hotspots in England have had their health services cut in the past three years.
<Broken link removed>
BY ANOOSH CHAKELIAN AND BEN WALKER


On Monday 16 March, Boris Johnson told the British public to avoid any unnecessary travel. The sombre edict, announced at a No 10 press conference, didn’t quite get through to a certain section of the audience, however. Second home Britain was on the move, and nowhere – from the Isle of Wight to Snowdonia to the Lake District – was safe.
So many were ignoring official advice and fleeing to their scenic second properties that the government had to firm up its message less than a week later. On Sunday 22 March, it released essential travel guidance, instructing people to “remain in their primary residence”, and ruling out visits to second homes, camp sites or caravan parks – “whether for isolation purposes or holidays”.
The reason is simple: most second-homers would be travelling from London or other densely populated areas – where the coronavirus was quickly spreading – and would risk taking the disease to other corners of the country. This would have a knock-on pressure on local healthcare services and endanger the local population (which skews older in many rural areas with a high proportion of second homes).
–– ADVERTISEMENT ––


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Scandal dominated Scotland on 4 April when it emerged its chief medical officer, Catherine Calderwood, had contravened her own advice by visiting her second home in Fife on two consecutive weekends with her family – more than 40 miles from her home in Edinburgh. Police officers visited her to give her a warning and she eventually resigned on 5 April.
Despite this high-profile example, people are still flouting the lockdown guidance and travelling to their other residences. MPs representing such areas tell me that visitors are arriving in their cars at their second homes in the middle of the night, in an attempt to move in undetected.
This trend is now having an impact on health services across the country. The Covid Symptom Tracker app – a crowdsourced dataset of virus symptoms designed by doctors and scientists at King's College London – shows higher infection rates than average in second home-heavy areas, including the Lake District, Anglesey and the Cotswolds, according to analysis by the Sunday Times.

According to data analysis by the New Statesman, almost all second home hotspots in England have had their health services cut over the past three years.
Looking at places with the highest proportion of second homes per capita, the county of Dorset is the most vulnerable to coronavirus spreading and the resulting demand overwhelming services, having had its health budget cut by 19 per cent since 2016:


Map by Ben Walker


Considering the areas with the highest number of second homes (without taking population into account), Buckinghamshire is most at risk, having had its health budget cut by 16.4 per cent since 2016:


Map by Ben Walker
The prevalence of second homes and thin healthcare provision is becoming an increasingly concerning combination as coronavirus spreads across the country.
“It’s certainly had an impact on pharmacies,” says Simon Hoare, Conservative MP for North Dorset. He has seen “incredibly long queues” at pharmacies in his constituency, struggling to fulfil repeat prescriptions and supply medicine to an influx of newcomers. Pharmacies are already stretched by an increase in demand due to Covid-19.

“A large number of second-home owners are coming down, turning up, queuing to get into the pharmacy – it then, of course, involves an awful lot of to-ing and fro-ing for the pharmacists: back to the London GP, back to the London pharmacy, because that’s where [the customers] are registered.
“That’s been adding some considerable strain to a key part of the rural health service.”
He accuses people travelling to their holiday properties of “jeopardising the welfare and health of people who are living in the areas”.

Dorset Council announced a 4 per cent increase in council tax earlier this year to tackle the rising costs of social care, pointing out that central government grants to local authorities had been cut by nearly 60 per cent since 2010. In January, campaigners lost their fight against the closure of Poole Hospital’s A&E department (which, alongside its maternity and paediatrics unit, will be absorbed by nearby Bournemouth hospital).
“The delivery of services in rural areas, due to the sparsity of population and the far-flung nature of geography, is much harder to deal with than [delivering services] in densely populated conurbations,” says Hoare.
“It’s an enormous luxury and privilege to have a second home, but this is now not the time to be visiting them. It is putting, and will continue to put, inordinate stress on already stretched public services, and it is shipping in contagion from more densely populated areas, particularly – though not exclusively – London.”

In Hoare's constituency, which is largely rural with an elderly population (26 per cent are over 65, compared with the national figure of 16.5 per cent, according to LSE’s Democratic Dashboard project), he has noticed that “some people have been coming in the dead of night, which suggests they know what they’re doing isn’t right”, with visitors “creeping in at two o’clock in the morning and pretending they’ve been there all the time”.
“Undoubtedly it is putting a strain and a stress on the health service and will continue to do so, because I presume that second home owners won’t want to go back to London or Surrey or wherever; they will want to stay in the calm, quiet parts of the countryside,” he says. “And that is an incredibly selfish act.”
The Tory MP for Totnes, Anthony Mangnall, is also noticing visitors arriving in the dark in his Devon constituency. “It’s extraordinary – the road travelling in is quiet all day until about 11pm, and between 11pm and 2am it suddenly gets busy,” he tells me.
“In any other circumstance, a sudden influx of visitors would be really welcome; a huge part of the Devon economy is based on tourism and so many people are dependent on it,” he says.
“[But] where we’ve seen health facilities in Dartmouth being rolled back, with the <Broken link removed> in 2017, residents are really concerned about how they’re going to get their health provision if the population of their town suddenly dramatically increases and they're worried about a virus.”
Dartmouth and Kingswear Community Hospital closed in March 2017. Devon as a county has struggled with social-care demands and shrinking budgets; between 2011 and 2017, the number of Devon Council employees working in adult social care had been cut by nearly half.
Totnes as a constituency has a high level of poor health at 6.3 per cent, and a disproportionately older population, with 30 per cent aged 65 and over.
“[The rise of visitors] is concerning for me, it’s concerning for residents, and I’m asking people to stay away now and come back when we’ve got the greenlight to be able to travel across the country,” says Mangnall.
Long before the coronavirus outbreak, backlash against second-home ownership and holiday rentals pushing up prices in certain areas had been building. In St Ives, Cornwall, residents voted for a ban on building new second homes in 2016. Other communities followed suit.
“The whole tourism sector is very important in rural areas. What I hope is people don’t act in a way that is so irresponsible that it builds up a legacy of resentment, antipathy, distrust and anger towards those who either own a second home or rent out a holiday property,” says says Simon Hoare.
“That won’t be good for intercommunity relations going forward. This may not be the most elegant of analogies, but you don’t want to end up with sort of Vichy conspirators in an echo of post-1945.”
Such tensions have been brought to the fore by Brits misusing their boltholes during the pandemic. Mangnall has expressed concerns to the Chancellor Rishi Sunak, and the Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick about second-home owners who list their properties as holiday rentals “exploiting” emergency coronavirus funding, such as small business grants and business rate relief.
He warns of second home owners in his constituency that are registered for business rates using the crisis to “pocket £10,000 designed to support struggling businesses”. A vast majority have “also applied for small business rate relief”.
Neither department commented specifically on this loophole; a Treasury spokesperson simply stated: “We encourage people to respect the spirit of the measures, and to not misuse the support we are offering.” (Mangnall has told his two local authorities, South Hams and Torbay, to freeze payments to second home-owners.)
The decline of public services in rural England is an often ignored story. Spending cuts and pressures on social care have degraded the public realm in many parts of the country, those that look otherwise idyllic and play holiday host to society’s most affluent.
“If people love the communities and the areas in which they have purchased a second home or have a caravan,” says Hoare, “if you’re fond of the neighbours and the new friends you have made, then I would suggest, out of human compassion and common sense, just give it a miss now.”
Anoosh Chakelian is the New Statesman’s Britain editor.
Ben Walker is a data journalist at the New Statesman.
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And the SW is struggling with an elderly vulnerable population threatened with infection brought in by new arrivals....

NHS Cornwall couldn't cope in January. How will it cope now, even without lots of extra arrivals?

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Slow down peeps we have at least 2 more months of this.?
 
Mmm, I know when we had our extension done w had to pay planning but I never knew it was relative to square metres?
Yes . When I did mine it just stated "cost" I put down the cost based on materials as most work was either being done by me or foc-
that's when I got the reply " the cost is £55M2" so why didn't they tell me that at the outset ?
dd onto that the £2400 I paid for the migratory bird levy!!
Go on run that one past me again ? I can't even find anything on line?
do you think it might be code for the brown envelope 'holiday fund' ?:giggle:
Yep, Chichester council are £120 m2 +5% and they also charge for garage area, some councils only charge living area.
that seems cheap for todays prices as what I quoted above was what I had to pay Mid Devon dc in the very ealry 90's.
Are we talking holiday lets here or permanent second homes. Are you suggesting that the entire nation is now restricted to where they are on the electoral roll. I don't think so gus..... :unsure:
second homes. If you have places where no one lives why would an authority be providing health care ?
I thought people went to these places in the full knowledge that if they fall ill they are going to be carted miles away to get assistance & hopefully it won't take too long that you die.
A perspective based on declining provision for the NHS... https://www.newstatesman.com/scienc...owners-expose-locals-coronavirus-and-endanger
UK

<Broken link removed>Search



Menu
<Broken link removed>
GETTY
CORONAVIRUS

8 APRIL 2020
How second home owners expose locals to coronavirus and endanger Britain
New Statesman data analysis finds almost all second-home hotspots in England have had their health services cut in the past three years.
<Broken link removed>
BY ANOOSH CHAKELIAN AND BEN WALKER


On Monday 16 March, Boris Johnson told the British public to avoid any unnecessary travel. The sombre edict, announced at a No 10 press conference, didn’t quite get through to a certain section of the audience, however. Second home Britain was on the move, and nowhere – from the Isle of Wight to Snowdonia to the Lake District – was safe.
So many were ignoring official advice and fleeing to their scenic second properties that the government had to firm up its message less than a week later. On Sunday 22 March, it released essential travel guidance, instructing people to “remain in their primary residence”, and ruling out visits to second homes, camp sites or caravan parks – “whether for isolation purposes or holidays”.
The reason is simple: most second-homers would be travelling from London or other densely populated areas – where the coronavirus was quickly spreading – and would risk taking the disease to other corners of the country. This would have a knock-on pressure on local healthcare services and endanger the local population (which skews older in many rural areas with a high proportion of second homes).
–– ADVERTISEMENT ––


unmiss-sound-button-muted-e74d67a0c85c3548f07d7564782a269c.svg


Scandal dominated Scotland on 4 April when it emerged its chief medical officer, Catherine Calderwood, had contravened her own advice by visiting her second home in Fife on two consecutive weekends with her family – more than 40 miles from her home in Edinburgh. Police officers visited her to give her a warning and she eventually resigned on 5 April.
Despite this high-profile example, people are still flouting the lockdown guidance and travelling to their other residences. MPs representing such areas tell me that visitors are arriving in their cars at their second homes in the middle of the night, in an attempt to move in undetected.
This trend is now having an impact on health services across the country. The Covid Symptom Tracker app – a crowdsourced dataset of virus symptoms designed by doctors and scientists at King's College London – shows higher infection rates than average in second home-heavy areas, including the Lake District, Anglesey and the Cotswolds, according to analysis by the Sunday Times.

According to data analysis by the New Statesman, almost all second home hotspots in England have had their health services cut over the past three years.
Looking at places with the highest proportion of second homes per capita, the county of Dorset is the most vulnerable to coronavirus spreading and the resulting demand overwhelming services, having had its health budget cut by 19 per cent since 2016:


Map by Ben Walker


Considering the areas with the highest number of second homes (without taking population into account), Buckinghamshire is most at risk, having had its health budget cut by 16.4 per cent since 2016:


Map by Ben Walker
The prevalence of second homes and thin healthcare provision is becoming an increasingly concerning combination as coronavirus spreads across the country.
“It’s certainly had an impact on pharmacies,” says Simon Hoare, Conservative MP for North Dorset. He has seen “incredibly long queues” at pharmacies in his constituency, struggling to fulfil repeat prescriptions and supply medicine to an influx of newcomers. Pharmacies are already stretched by an increase in demand due to Covid-19.

“A large number of second-home owners are coming down, turning up, queuing to get into the pharmacy – it then, of course, involves an awful lot of to-ing and fro-ing for the pharmacists: back to the London GP, back to the London pharmacy, because that’s where [the customers] are registered.
“That’s been adding some considerable strain to a key part of the rural health service.”
He accuses people travelling to their holiday properties of “jeopardising the welfare and health of people who are living in the areas”.

Dorset Council announced a 4 per cent increase in council tax earlier this year to tackle the rising costs of social care, pointing out that central government grants to local authorities had been cut by nearly 60 per cent since 2010. In January, campaigners lost their fight against the closure of Poole Hospital’s A&E department (which, alongside its maternity and paediatrics unit, will be absorbed by nearby Bournemouth hospital).
“The delivery of services in rural areas, due to the sparsity of population and the far-flung nature of geography, is much harder to deal with than [delivering services] in densely populated conurbations,” says Hoare.
“It’s an enormous luxury and privilege to have a second home, but this is now not the time to be visiting them. It is putting, and will continue to put, inordinate stress on already stretched public services, and it is shipping in contagion from more densely populated areas, particularly – though not exclusively – London.”

In Hoare's constituency, which is largely rural with an elderly population (26 per cent are over 65, compared with the national figure of 16.5 per cent, according to LSE’s Democratic Dashboard project), he has noticed that “some people have been coming in the dead of night, which suggests they know what they’re doing isn’t right”, with visitors “creeping in at two o’clock in the morning and pretending they’ve been there all the time”.
“Undoubtedly it is putting a strain and a stress on the health service and will continue to do so, because I presume that second home owners won’t want to go back to London or Surrey or wherever; they will want to stay in the calm, quiet parts of the countryside,” he says. “And that is an incredibly selfish act.”
The Tory MP for Totnes, Anthony Mangnall, is also noticing visitors arriving in the dark in his Devon constituency. “It’s extraordinary – the road travelling in is quiet all day until about 11pm, and between 11pm and 2am it suddenly gets busy,” he tells me.
“In any other circumstance, a sudden influx of visitors would be really welcome; a huge part of the Devon economy is based on tourism and so many people are dependent on it,” he says.
“[But] where we’ve seen health facilities in Dartmouth being rolled back, with the <Broken link removed> in 2017, residents are really concerned about how they’re going to get their health provision if the population of their town suddenly dramatically increases and they're worried about a virus.”
Dartmouth and Kingswear Community Hospital closed in March 2017. Devon as a county has struggled with social-care demands and shrinking budgets; between 2011 and 2017, the number of Devon Council employees working in adult social care had been cut by nearly half.
Totnes as a constituency has a high level of poor health at 6.3 per cent, and a disproportionately older population, with 30 per cent aged 65 and over.
“[The rise of visitors] is concerning for me, it’s concerning for residents, and I’m asking people to stay away now and come back when we’ve got the greenlight to be able to travel across the country,” says Mangnall.
Long before the coronavirus outbreak, backlash against second-home ownership and holiday rentals pushing up prices in certain areas had been building. In St Ives, Cornwall, residents voted for a ban on building new second homes in 2016. Other communities followed suit.
“The whole tourism sector is very important in rural areas. What I hope is people don’t act in a way that is so irresponsible that it builds up a legacy of resentment, antipathy, distrust and anger towards those who either own a second home or rent out a holiday property,” says says Simon Hoare.
“That won’t be good for intercommunity relations going forward. This may not be the most elegant of analogies, but you don’t want to end up with sort of Vichy conspirators in an echo of post-1945.”
Such tensions have been brought to the fore by Brits misusing their boltholes during the pandemic. Mangnall has expressed concerns to the Chancellor Rishi Sunak, and the Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick about second-home owners who list their properties as holiday rentals “exploiting” emergency coronavirus funding, such as small business grants and business rate relief.
He warns of second home owners in his constituency that are registered for business rates using the crisis to “pocket £10,000 designed to support struggling businesses”. A vast majority have “also applied for small business rate relief”.
Neither department commented specifically on this loophole; a Treasury spokesperson simply stated: “We encourage people to respect the spirit of the measures, and to not misuse the support we are offering.” (Mangnall has told his two local authorities, South Hams and Torbay, to freeze payments to second home-owners.)
The decline of public services in rural England is an often ignored story. Spending cuts and pressures on social care have degraded the public realm in many parts of the country, those that look otherwise idyllic and play holiday host to society’s most affluent.
“If people love the communities and the areas in which they have purchased a second home or have a caravan,” says Hoare, “if you’re fond of the neighbours and the new friends you have made, then I would suggest, out of human compassion and common sense, just give it a miss now.”
Anoosh Chakelian is the New Statesman’s Britain editor.
Ben Walker is a data journalist at the New Statesman.
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Excellent article & it also adds to the case by pointing out the additional strain on Pharmacys that are only used to dealing with a few people suddenly being over run by 00's.
 
Go on run that one past me again ? I can't even find anything on line?
do you think it might be code for the brown envelope 'holiday fund' ?:giggle:
As we are in Chichester Harbour and it is classed as ANOB it seems the birds are very expensive if you take away their landing pad.
This from the web site
• Investing developer contributions through Bird Aware Solent to help educate people about recreational disturbance affecting the Special Protection Area.
Load of bollocks and just another payday for someone, as I say cost me £2400 :Eeek:
Probably all they did was put a crappy sign up somewhere with pictures of birds:(
 
The prices that they charge in Cornwall for parking I can not see how they can possibly be short of money at all.

I'm sure that they're grateful for your contribution... as are many other pretty places in England

nlp_map.png

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Well looking at your map we are more deprived than Cornwall and we know that’s not true don’t we. Haha
 
Well looking at your map we are more deprived than Cornwall and we know that’s not true don’t we. Haha
It looks as though North Norfolk is the same as Cornwall...unless you're further west than I thought.
 
Could you show me any Government advice to say that you had to travel to go to your primary residence ?

I haven't seen anything of the kind! I have seen, "Do not make unnecessary journeys"

Read post #304 and link (Essential Travel). You can invent a hypothetical example, but it’s crystal clear what the the guidance is telling us and the spirit in which it is intended to operate. The assumption obviously is that the starting point is residence in the primary address. If you’re living in a 2nd home before this all kicked off, I don’t suppose it matters much what you do, but you’re attempting to build an argument on a tiny fraction of the 2nd home owners population - it’s pointless, irrelevant and argument for arguments sake!
 
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No Yarmouth etc is a place on its knees, we are indeed north
Near North Lynn and King's Lynn?

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1586969391493.png


6 out the bottom 10 in eu are in the Uk .Yes a couple of years old but shows the position. Cornwall a few years back was entitled to eu poverty funding .
 
Near North Lynn and King's Lynn?
Luckily not Lynn. But lynn hospital is struggling. Like many built in the east it’s bolted together concrete panels etc and it’s rusting away. The hospitals in the east have wards shut because the building is not safe and they have monthly checks on them to check their state. Not sure if other parts of the country have this style of hospital.
 
View attachment 378936

6 out the bottom 10 in eu are in the Uk .Yes a couple of years old but shows the position. Cornwall a few years back was entitled to eu poverty funding .
Yes, but does that include car parking receipts? Can make a big difference to regional economy I’m told.
 
Luckily not Lynn. But lynn hospital is struggling. Like many built in the east it’s bolted together concrete panels etc and it’s rusting away. The hospitals in the east have wards shut because the building is not safe and they have monthly checks on them to check their state. Not sure if other parts of the country have this style of hospital.
It is only 40 years old :oops: :mad:
 
Yes, but does that include car parking receipts? Can make a big difference to regional economy I’m told.

If they are declared, they would all contribute to the economy....

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Read post #304 and link (Essential Travel). You can invent a hypothetical example, but it’s crystal clear what the the guidance is telling us and the spirit in which it is intended to operate. The assumption obviously is that the starting point is residence in the primary address. If you’re living in a 2nd home before this all kicked off, I don’t suppose it matters much what you do, but you’re attempting to build an argument on a tiny fraction of the 2nd home owners population - it’s pointless, irrelevant and argument for arguments sake!
Ah do no link to back up your statement!

Also you seem to keep missing that I KEEP SAYING OK before the lockdown, not acceptable after the lockdown.

I see today that cretins have vandalised a car in Cornwall today.

Morons
 
I live in a tourist area, people are being asked to stay away from the area because there are not the health facilities to even look after locals, not for any other reason. Half of the medical staff are in self isolation, carers are leaving because they have no PPE , the system is breaking down, locals are terrified, we had no cases until a few weeks ago, when it was busier than any bank holiday weekend, now unfortunately people are dying.
My daughter is a front line nurse who is at the moment at having a few issues with her late husband over child care. He his commuting regularly from the midlands to the north west which has created the issue. But now his solicitor has stated that my daughter is of a higher risk factor than himself. What does this portray to people on the frontline and is this attitude from a solicitor acceptable. My daughter is is quit distraught with this information ( front line support not)
 
Ah do no link to back up your statement!

Also you seem to keep missing that I KEEP SAYING OK before the lockdown, not acceptable after the lockdown.

I see today that cretins have vandalised a car in Cornwall today.

Morons

I think that’s a rather narrow & selective view of what you’ve been saying, but hey ho, I’m losing the will to live on this topic. There’s none so blind......
 
I think that’s a rather narrow & selective view of what you’ve been saying, but hey ho, I’m losing the will to live on this topic. There’s none so blind......
It is pretty much what I have said throughout

if someone owns a house in Cornwall, and decided to isolate there before the lockdown, they have every right to do so.

There is not a scrap of legislation to state otherwise
 
It is pretty much what I have said throughout

if someone owns a house in Cornwall, and decided to isolate there before the lockdown, they have every right to do so.

There is not a scrap of legislation to state otherwise
Technically every right but morally less clear cut... adding extra strain on already struggling services when the services in the primary residence area are more likely to be funded for their residents... Second-homers won't be making many friends in some areas....

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It is pretty much what I have said throughout

if someone owns a house in Cornwall, and decided to isolate there before the lockdown, they have every right to do so.

There is not a scrap of legislation to state otherwise

Whatever.
30+ posts on this topic and still not understanding the point.
 
Technically every right but morally less clear cut... adding extra strain on already struggling services when the services in the primary residence area are more likely to be funded for their residents... Second-homers won't be making many friends in some areas....
Can you post any evidence to show that any rural hospital has not been able to cope, and that the collapse has been caused by second home owners? Or is this mere supposition, regional Xenophobi.
 
Can you post any evidence to show that any rural hospital has not been able to cope, and that the collapse has been caused by second home owners? Or is this mere supposition, regional Xenophobi.

You really don’t get it. The whole point of this is about avoiding overloading services. Thankfully most 2nd owners have taken the advice you constantly challenge and stayed away, the result being (so far) that local NHS have been able to cope. In your world of ‘I pay my Council Tax so I’m entitled do what the hell I like, so sod all you greedy/envious xenophobic locals” that might not have been the case had significant numbers failed to heed the advice given. What I do know is the severe problems experienced by A&E each August when the local population doubles and most of them don’t need ICU or ventilators. So crystal ball or scepticism from the ignorant not required.
 
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I’d prefer webbed toed, pitchfork wielding baying mob if we are being honest.

And I stand by my original preface that is some one who owned a second home, made a decision to self isolate in their second home, some time before the lock down or travel ban was considered or introduced, they would be perfectly entitled to do so.

You obviously disagree, which your equally entitled to do

Great living in a free Country isn’t it?

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