Interesting EV fuel cost example

[PaulOH]

The future is bright - extremely bright in this case as it'll require a helluvalota sun!

Lightyear 0 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MichaelT]

But the original post about the reporter finding it more expensive and inconvenient was to totally unrealistic, for me even if I had to rely on Tesla superchargers which I don't) these are currently around 45p per Kw, which for me equates to about 10p a mile, assuming diesel at about £1.70 per litre I would need to get about 77mpg to break even.

Although there are now some very good EV's around I would not currently consider any other EV apart from Tesla if I needed to publicly charge as the charging network generally is pathetic.

With regards purchase cost, for smaller cars there is still a big difference, but larger cars are now comparable - a BMW 320d and Tesla M3 RWD are within £1,000 of each other, these will be trickling down to the used market, and smaller cheaper cars will come to the market.

I personally think the key to all this is a standard charger so any car can charge up at any charger just like petrol/diesel. Just think how cluttered EV charge points are going to be if each manufacturer had different chargers?

 

[Tombola]

People mention range as one of the first problems of EVs but it isn't the case for most drivers.
There are batteries that will go farther but sensible mass makers won't use them as it pushes up cost and 90% don't need it.
2nd they mention charge problems..again this mostly just isn't the case. Most charge at home or when parked at work.(off street is a problem that needs over coming) ..it's no different to the odf a far out farmer having to store his own deisel for high usage.
It's lies all lies I tell ya !!!

Debunking Electric Car myths - Fully Charged Show

Dan Caesar takes aim at the multitude of lies and statistics that surround the Electric Car and reveals the reality behind the myths

fullycharged.show

 

[SpeedyDux]

Perhaps future cars will accept a fast charge only ? So say the car is designed to suck 35 amps initially from the supply, that would trip out any domestic ring circuit. I did say putting the extra meter in "fast chargers".

If several houses did use fast chargers at the same time, the main cable under the street would be fried and black out several neighbouring streets at the very least. Hence my earlier point about the need for massive upgrading of the whole electricity distribution network. I see no sign at all that this is happening. The only local street works are for putting in fibre broadband. And repairs to the fragile old electric network. During Wednesday evening I had a brief and unexpected power cut. Next morning I found that my freezer had been shut down, probably by a power surge. That's the dysfunctional world we now live in. No certainty of reliable, continuous electricity supply.

Are there any financial incentives for privately-owned National Grid to make the necessary massive investment? They will only do that if the return on investment is guaranteed in some way, e.g. by fixing the bottom electricity price high enough to cover that. The precedent being the price guarantee for Hinckley Point C. Widely criticised at the time. Politically risky.

A safe bet is that, despite claims that renewables will make generating electricity much cheaper, standing daily charges and tariffs for domestic customers are only going to go up in the medium to long term to pay for Net Zero. We will have to get more used to power cuts too.

 

[SpeedyDux]

People mention range as one of the first problems of EVs but it isn't the case for most drivers.
There are batteries that will go farther but sensible mass makers won't use them as it pushes up cost and 90% don't need it.
2nd they mention charge problems..again this mostly just isn't the case. Most charge at home or when parked at work.(off street is a problem that needs over coming) ..it's no different to the odf a far out farmer having to store his own deisel for high usage.
It's lies all lies I tell ya !!!

Debunking Electric Car myths - Fully Charged Show

Dan Caesar takes aim at the multitude of lies and statistics that surround the Electric Car and reveals the reality behind the myths

fullycharged.show

In that case why don't I see everywhere those ultra cheap Citroen Ami EVs that have a range of 30 miles. It isn't what most drivers think they need.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[PaulyP]

I don’t want to burst your Tesla bubble but….

The electric cars with the best real-world range​

The ID Buz will do around 250 miles so not shabby for a local support van

That’s just like saying a car will do 60 mpg (in ideal conditions) when in actual fact owners are very lucky to get 45.

 

[Coolcats]

But the original post about the reporter finding it more expensive and inconvenient was to totally unrealistic, for me even if I had to rely on Tesla superchargers which I don't) these are currently around 45p per Kw, which for me equates to about 10p a mile, assuming diesel at about £1.70 per litre I would need to get about 77mpg to break even.

Although there are now some very good EV's around I would not currently consider any other EV apart from Tesla if I needed to publicly charge as the charging network generally is pathetic.

With regards purchase cost, for smaller cars there is still a big difference, but larger cars are now comparable - a BMW 320d and Tesla M3 RWD are within £1,000 of each other, these will be trickling down to the used market, and smaller cheaper cars will come to the market.

We can only go by what the reporter found in his experience of using the Volvo and the cost of the charge points available to him.

Your experience is just that and totally respect your findings with your usage.

Personally and this is about my values I would never buy a Tesla due to Musk and the ethics and values he displays and will never place 1p in his direction.

 

[Wh05apk]

I personally think the key to all this is a standard charger so any car can charge up at any charger just like petrol/diesel. Just think how cluttered EV charge points are going to be if each manufacturer had different chargers?

The actual chargers are now standard, however Tesla having invested millions into the charging infrastructure currently only allow Tesla's to use most of the points, they are opening up some of the "quieter" ones, however I would be surprised if they open them all up as that would remove their USP.

 

[SpeedyDux]

We can only go by what the reporter found in his experience of using the Volvo and the cost of the charge points available to him.

Your experience is just that and totally respect your findings with your usage.

Personally and this is about my values I would never buy a Tesla due to Musk and the ethics and values he displays and will never place 1p in his direction.

Getting rid of the switches and knobs, and putting all the secondary controls on Tesla's big touchscreen is what puts me off most. I see VW have followed suit. Crossed them off my list.

Support the CRK!

(Campaign for Real Knobs, obv.)

 

[Tombola]

In that case why don't I see everywhere those ultra cheap Citroen Ami EVs that have a range of 30 miles. It isn't what most drivers think they need.

Dunno I'm not a marketing master...I just know the facts...like I said in the other thread..20miles per day in the UK is th average ev driver miles in 2022.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tombola]

I am not saying the tesla is superior

But it is though... i am..

Any opinions expressed in this post are not the opinion of the site owner nor publisher..merely the poster...haaaa...

True tho...honest

One thing all telsas have in common is the ability to stir up anger and jealousy amongst a lot of folk...usually those that never have not never will own an ev....watch my point be proven here soon

 

[urban_biker]

Kia and Hyundai still use real knobs. Currently driving a Kia eNiro which is a great car but my next car will be a Polestar 2 (needeed more boot space) which does away with most of them apart from heating controls.

Will see how I get on.

 

[ROCHESB]

Last year I looked at buying an EV; instead I bought a self charging hybrid, a Honda Jazz. It has dual electric motors, an Atkinson cycle petrol engine and no gearbox. It drives like an EV, came with 5 year service/breakdown cover & warranty will easily do >70 MPG and because it was half the price of the EVs I was looking at I was able to fund our new motorhome

The Jazz has a 500+ mile range between refuelling, so no range anxiety for me....... Happy Days

 

[Tombola]

Kia and Hyundai still use real knobs. Currently driving a Kia eNiro which is a great car but my next car will be a Polestar 2 (needeed more boot space) which does away with most of them apart from heating controls.

Will see how I get on.

I looked at the nitro and thought it was great..polestar...hmm not sure for my needs.

 

[autorouter]

The car needs to be plugged into a charger so they will know how much you are using as opposed to the other electric use around the house.

Home charge points are simply an extra 32A circuit coming from the consumer unit, no separate metering so no way for the utility company to distinguish it from a shower or cooker. And if it turns out to be a problem, you could use a 'Granny Charger' that plugs into any 13A socket, obviously at a lower power of course.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wh05apk]

Dunno I'm not a marketing master...I just know the facts...like I said in the other thread..20miles per day in the UK is th average ev driver miles in 2022.

I think if they could do 60mph and a range of 60-70 miles they would be ideal, but to me they seem dangerous with a maximum speed of 30 mph (or less with a passenger?) even around town they seem too slow.

 

[Wh05apk]

Home charge points are simply an extra 32A circuit coming from the consumer unit, no separate metering so no way for the utility company to distinguish it from a shower or cooker. And if it turns out to be a problem, you could use a 'Granny Charger' that plugs into any 13A socket, obviously at a lower power of course.

All new installations have to be smart chargers, so presumably they can differentiate between domestic and EV charging? (wouldn't stop you using a 3pin socket....)

 

[autorouter]

If several houses did use fast chargers at the same time, the main cable under the street would be fried and black out several neighbouring streets at the very least.

There is generally no requirement for a 'fast' charger for a house. Mostly an EV is parked for several hours unused outside the house, so a standard 7kW charge point is fine. Fast and ultrafast chargers are only required at 'waypoints' like motorway service stations or shopping centres, where an EV with a low battery can refill as fast as possible to continue the journey.

 

[SpeedyDux]

I think if they could do 60mph and a range of 60-70 miles they would be ideal, but to me they seem dangerous with a maximum speed of 30 mph (or less with a passenger?) even around town they seem too slow.

Because it was designed as a "sans permis" voiturette that can legally be driven in France by 14-year-olds and disqualified drink drivers. In England it is classed as a quadricycle. You probably wouldn't come out of a crash unscathed, but there's still a use for it for local journeys especially in those pesky 20mph zones.

Edit - With a mini trailer it might make a handy Toad. I've seen French Camping-Caristes towing similar voiturettes aimed at that niche market.

 

[Gromett]

How easy it would be to put a separate "smart electric meter" in each home fast charger for EVs. Then the company you buy electricity from could send you two bills, domestic and vehicle.

Well that would work if people used that socket. But you can also charge an ev (slowly) from a normal 3 pin socket avoiding the tax.

Your solution would require every house to be rewired to a degree to add an additional meter, and it would have to be a smart meter. It would be extortionately expensive and easily sidestepped.

Smart alec like me, would install a solar system that was not grid tied and charge from that, avoiding the tax entirely.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Gromett]

Getting rid of the switches and knobs, and putting all the secondary controls on Tesla's big touchscreen is what puts me off most.

I agree with you there. I am all for putting most controls on the screen that you don't use regularly. But for me too much has been moved to the screen which I would find difficult.
Part of the reason why I wouldn't buy a Tesla if I was in the market for an EV car.

 

[Ian Bosman]

Some of the cost of fast commercial charging will probably reduce as more charging points are installed. I think some providers are just making hay due to the current limited number of chargers. 75p per kwh (instavolt) is pretty much price gouging IMHO although it doesn't stop me paying it when I have to.

If most of your driving is within 100 miles from home and you charge overnight at 7.5p per kwh (Octopus Go) Then there is still a cost benefit.

However then you have to factor in the huge capital cost of buying an electric car. It pretty much only works for me due to company car tax perks.

Cars and batteries are going to have to become much cheaper if electric is going to go fully mainstream, and charging infrastructure will have to improve and get cheaper as well.

What is going to be interesting is to see how Diesel, Petrol, Hydrogen and Electric compare. I am convinced that electric is a stop gap solution at this moment.

 

[Sandancers]

Well that would work if people used that socket. But you can also charge an ev (slowly) from a normal 3 pin socket avoiding the tax.

Your solution would require every house to be rewired to a degree to add an additional meter, and it would have to be a smart meter. It would be extortionately expensive and easily sidestepped.

Smart alec like me, would install a solar system that was not grid tied and charge from that, avoiding the tax entirely.

The smart meter would be built into the Fast Charger, so located at the point of use, if you like, rather than the meter where the whole supply comes into the house. It would communicate with the electric company as the normal smart meters do today.

 

[nicholsong]

What is going to be interesting is to see how Diesel, Petrol, Hydrogen and Electric compare. I am convinced that electric is a stop gap solution at this moment.

I am not convinced of that, nor of anything else about the debate on the replacement of fossil fuels.

What I am convinced about is that our 20+ year-old Honda HR-V, costing 2K six years ago is fine for about-town, and could not at present be beaten for economy by an EV.

Also there is no viable alternative to the diesel MH.

Therefore I shall wait to be convinced about alternatives in 7-10 years time.

 

[tonyidle]

In that case why don't I see everywhere those ultra cheap Citroen Ami EVs that have a range of 30 miles. It isn't what most drivers think they need.

You don't see many ICE quadricycles either

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Coolcats]

Getting rid of the switches and knobs, and putting all the secondary controls on Tesla's big touchscreen is what puts me off most. I see VW have followed suit. Crossed them off my list.

Support the CRK!

(Campaign for Real Knobs, obv.)

It’s a fad switches will come back

 

[Coolcats]

What is going to be interesting is to see how Diesel, Petrol, Hydrogen and Electric compare. I am convinced that electric is a stop gap solution at this moment.

I can see Hydrogen becoming part of the energy mix

 

[ROCHESB]

Hydrogen fuel cells are already being used to supplement battery powered HGVs , Tevva have a truck that has a range of 500km and can refuel in 10 mins

The UK gets its first hydrogen-electric truck with the landmark Tevva launch.

The UK gets its first hydrogen-electric truck with the landmark Tevva launch.

www.tevva.com

 

[MichaelT]

What is going to be interesting is to see how Diesel, Petrol, Hydrogen and Electric compare. I am convinced that electric is a stop gap solution at this moment.

As was petrol/diesel and horses before that.

 

[Gromett]

It’s a fad switches will come back

That's what Blackberry hoped...

The younger generation are ok with touch screens. I don't see them coming back either in Blackberries or cars.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}