Horses could become the backstop solution!
Not my preferred mode of transport though.
Interesting EV fuel cost example
- Thread starter Coolcats
- Start date
Horses could become the backstop solution!
Not my preferred mode of transport though.
I’m sure they will find a way to distinguish what you are using your leccy for and charge accordingly you won’t get away with it for long.
Especially if you are being spied on by Alexa.
So, it may be best to buy a diesel/petrol vehicle around 2029 as they have to stop manufacturing them by 2030, it could very well then be run for 20/30 years so a long time yet before they stop them.
Ejaydee
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Unfortunately, it is likely to be many years before that information is properly known and independantly proven, and many of us on this forum may well be pushing up daisies by then!
IMV there is a load of 'Horlicks' talked about EVs by some people who either have an axe to grind, or are doomsayers, or have a vested interest in rubbishing the technology (i.e. oil companies and their hangers on), or just like to stir the s**t, the same way as there were 30 years ago when mobile phones first made an appearance (they will never catch on; ordinary people will never afford them; they will give you brain cancer; who wants to carry a phone around? etc).
The facts from my own personal perspective having owned two EV's as my daily vehicle over the last 9 years, that for an average user who is in the position to purchase a new car, and who has somewhere reliable to charge it at home or work, an EV is a dream to have and use.
I am fortunate (or had good foresight) because I installed solar panels of 4kW on my roof 12 years ago (now paid for themselves) so I tend to charge during the day when the sun is high, so the costs to charge and run the car for me are minimal. I have been keeping a rough and ready record of the electric costs from the smart meter while I have been charging over the last month (January), and since the beginning of the year I have done 788 miles for a cost of £85.94p which works out about 10.9 pence per mile (variable standard tariff). This is the worst possible scenario because I can only note down the meter cost at start and finish of charging, but the house was pulling power too at the same time (cooking, heating, lighting etc etc) but not possible to separate those costs, so the real costs to charge the car will be less!
My car has a theoretical range of 245 miles (real world 210 miles), which during the colder months is typically around the 200 miles mark (real world 170) which suits 99.9% of all the journeys I need to do.
I am having a 13.5 kW home battery being fitted Thursday next week, which will help smooth out the charging for the car even more, as I will be able to charge from the battery when the PVs are not producing lots of energy.
All that being said, I have always been up front and said EV's are not yet suited to everyones needs, and may never be, but for the average user they are a great option, quiet, smooth, and comfortable.
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Maybe a 16 year old ev could beat it.
Tombola
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yeah , when that changed it was ...WHAT ..where is this and that now a backlash saw them roll an update to the older style screen, but still all screen.
not the best tbh
Tombola
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and voice is getting better all the time
Tombola
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Each day almost 2 million barrels of oil are unsold thanks to EV transitionand that sjust at todays rates. The UK government will get that part of their loss back in taxation of Evs somehow.
As Gromett and some others have said, charge per milage used is a possiblity, but that will still make the median a potential big loss, not least of all in road tax VED.
As you may now pay full road duty, but you hardly drive your car each day, once pence per mile is (if) introduced, again this will be a huge drop in tax revenue.
Evs will be taxed and the rate depends on the losses during transition, how? dunno, maybe at point of sale, from new, to owner then from owner to owner on a sliding scale, depending on battery size, mileage, retrospectivly charged as they are passed on ? . (pardon the pun).
Id be happy to do pay per mile, or even something along the lines of the previous VED system, but one thing is for sure, the black hole will need filling
As Gromett and some others have said, charge per milage used is a possiblity, but that will still make the median a potential big loss, not least of all in road tax VED.
As you may now pay full road duty, but you hardly drive your car each day, once pence per mile is (if) introduced, again this will be a huge drop in tax revenue.
Evs will be taxed and the rate depends on the losses during transition, how? dunno, maybe at point of sale, from new, to owner then from owner to owner on a sliding scale, depending on battery size, mileage, retrospectivly charged as they are passed on ? . (pardon the pun).
Id be happy to do pay per mile, or even something along the lines of the previous VED system, but one thing is for sure, the black hole will need filling
If I were in control I would have a base VED tax that is based on the weight/size of the vehicle to encourage people to go smaller/lighter.
I would then have a mileage tax based based on the point of sale mileage and MOT. I will let authorised garages charge a nominal fee if a user wants to post interim values.
How would this work?
If you buy a car at 10,000 miles. You would state this on the change of ownership papers. Then at the next MOT or voluntary submission you will be give a fee based on that mileage.
If you had it for 3 months and did 3,000 miles. Then over the next 3 months you would be expected to pay the fee either weekly or monthly. If you got an MOT after 9 months had done 10,000 miles then you would pay for 10,000 miles over the next 9 months.
You can voluntarily top up your account ahead of time as you will know the fees. When you sell your car both your and the buye sign the mileage portion of the form.
This will give garages a bit more work, and the MOT system method means no need for extra equipment needs to be added to the car and no scare stories about government tracking.
That is it roughly.
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I think if all new installations are smart, and all new EVs have bi-directional charging, they won't just be charging (sorry) people to use electricity, they'll be paying them to store it and not use it at peak times. If there's a high enough uptake that will be a huge boost to storage, with no massive infrastructure needed. Each EV stores about 50kWh, so 1000 EVs in a small town can store 50MWh, enough to really help smooth out the peaks.
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Coolcats
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This is John Chen, who saved Blackberry you will see their software is currently in 200 Million vehicles
The use of Phones whilst driving have been banned which a good thing, most drivers can just feel for a button knob or switch which provides tactile feedback.
Given that many drivers just do not concentrate eat or drink whilst driving all of which can get you penalty points and fines what makes a big distracting screen so great? and one that provides no feed back, go over bump whilst aiming for temperature change and your finger bumps in to the increase air flow symbol, been there done that !
Highways England: in-car touchscreens can be unsafe
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I drove from Manchester to Javea, via London (+Portsmouth - Santander Ferry) in our Audi A3 1.9TDIe.
Filled up in Manchester and Did not need fuel Until we got past Valencia.
I always wonder what the journey would be in an EV. See a lot of Teslas out of their registered country
Filled up in Manchester and Did not need fuel Until we got past Valencia.
I always wonder what the journey would be in an EV. See a lot of Teslas out of their registered country
He didn't save Blackberry. It died not long after that article was written, it was written in 2013.
It was killed by the Microsoft transfer of the Burning Platform memo fame.
I agree to a degree. Moving a lot of a cars functionality to a screen makes sense. BUT, some critical stuff should never be moved.
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Coolcats
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This article is dated:
By Brennan DohertySpecial to the Star
Sat., Feb. 26, 2022 timer8 min. read
even the article says 2022 in the first paragragh
"Eight years after John Chen took over as CEO of BlackBerry, the venerable tech giant from Waterloo is still coming about to a new heading. Caught between its own reinvention as an enterprise software company and the headwinds of a global microchip shortage, BlackBerry has had to make some drastic course corrections well into 2022."
Oh yes he has saved Blackberry, John Chen was brought in as CEO to give Blackberry direction which he has successfully done he is a Top CEO and was the former CEO/President at Sybase
Blackberry as a company exists and is alive and well you will note I did not say they make handsets
About Us
Securing a Connected Future You Can Trust
BlackBerry helps organizations defend against cyber threats. Founded in 1984 as Research In Motion (RIM), BlackBerry is now a leader in cybersecurity—helping businesses, government agencies, and safety-critical institutions of all sizes secure the Internet of Things (IoT).BlackBerry® products and services include the Cylance® AI-based endpoint security solutions, BlackBerry® UEM unified endpoint management platform, the BlackBerry® AtHoc® critical event management solution, and BlackBerry® QNX®software for secure embedded systems.
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Coolcats
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Excellent anything that takes the eyes of the road is a distraction
My apologies. I saw the 2013 at the top and immediately stopped reading. The 2013 at the top was when he started at the company not when the article was written. My mistake.
Blackberry once had almost 50% of the US phone market and 20% of the world market. They blew it by resting on their laurels and not developing fast enough.
It was actually Nokia who was destroyed by the Ex Microsoft Bod and wrote the burning platform memo.
I got them mixed up in my head. In my defence I am working on an application involving the salesforce API and it is the nastiest programming job I have ever had. I hate the SF API. So my brain is not firing on all cylinders.
I was a huge Nokia fan until they went bust. I moved across to Blackberry who then also went pop (at least on phones).
Anyway back to the original point. You said buttons will come back, I suggest you look to blackberry who also thought that. They thought touch screens were a gimmick and didn't develop their own platform until well after Apple and Android had eaten their lunch. Nokia made a similar mistake but it was internal bickering that killed them. Buttons won't make a comeback in cars sadly.
I didn't know that. QNX was a fantastic OS at one point. Not heard anything about it for ages though. Perhaps being bought by Blackberry is why.
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Coolcats
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No problem we can all scan read, the blackberry and Nokia story there are many others highlights all technology is intermediate.
The Inos post showed their new vehicle and it does seem to have switches and buttons, whilst some or most functions may be set up via a screen the marketeers know a thing or two about nostalgia which is why we have a mini and a Fiat 500. The buttons and knobs may have limited functions but I can’t see them going away forever
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Coolcats
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The why, companies normally do this for an obscure tactical reason it either meets a comercial need or takes the competition out of the market.
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MichaelT
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Why all that and not just a smart meter in the car that uploads the data automatically?
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I have a Honda Jazz auto, paid £8,000 nearly 9 years ago, and it is as good now as when I bought it. Regularly does 48mpg, and more on a long run. It does everything I need a car to do.
I am not into gadgets, touch screen this, and app that. I don't care that it can't accelerate from 0 to 60 in the blink of an eye, I can only go as fast as the vehicle in front of me anyway. For my driving needs, I plop around £30 of petrol in the tank every couple of weeks or so. So why would I spend tens of thousands of pounds on an EV?
Craig
I am not into gadgets, touch screen this, and app that. I don't care that it can't accelerate from 0 to 60 in the blink of an eye, I can only go as fast as the vehicle in front of me anyway. For my driving needs, I plop around £30 of petrol in the tank every couple of weeks or so. So why would I spend tens of thousands of pounds on an EV?
Craig
Same here, 2006 Honda Civic Vtec 1.8, not broke down or cost anything in repairs, ultra reliable.
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Previous car was a Honda CRV auto, had it fifteen years, and never had a spanner on it.
Craig
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You are doing the right thing. I spent 42 years working in the front end of the motor trade & when people asked what’s the best thing to do I always said if your current car is running ok then keep it because that will be the most cost effective way of motoring. Thankfully most didn’t listen as I’d have been out of business!
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Buttons must surely be safer from a driver POV. Knowing the layout of your dash, a quick glance, if required, but mostly by touch without looking and requiring just a press or a twist. Touch screen menus need too much time not looking at the road. OK for setting stuff up that doesn't alter often but otherwise bad news.
But not as lucrative as pay per mile, mostly including higher charges for busy routes/peak times
Tombola
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you wouldnt, and no one is saying you have too. You can keeo doing that probably for the rest of your life, there will be plenty decent running ICE motors knocking about way after you are gone.
Fuel prices will increase and become more scarce as the masses of who owns what shifts, so will the ICE supply market, but it wont be for a good while.
Tombola
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Pay per mile wont touch the amount of losses the govt will incur in VED & Fuel duty/ taxes.
other ways will be introduced.
At the moment they have tackled the VED element(7 billion) by adding the over 40k new car supplement of £365 from 2025
then I think the £10.00 Co2 element is being added to all evs reg from 2018ish , then the standard yearly £165 will commence to replace the tax disc..
as for the lost fuel duty ???? almost 30 billion
well all sorts of things have been talked about from PPM to telematics (black boxes) to cameras, but seems that like Gromett and others said, mileage charge per user integrated into the already exisiting MOT system seems easiest, but how does that recoup all the current fuel duty tax of 30 billion ?
and is fuel duty then still applied at the same rate to exisitng pertoll and diesel users.
All I know is, I expect the cheap cost of running my EV days are over soon, once the shift starts.
Back to my V8 then
Quite right, here in Morocco where motoring is basic and cheap EV s will have to be cheaper still before they will take them2 points. Toyota recognises that after 2030 there will be a strong demand for ICE vehicles in all the countries where only lip service is being paid to pledges made at COP26 etc. If big names like Toyota, that has a global reputation for making ultra-reliable diesel 4x4s abandon that market, not only are they trashing valuable goodwill but also leaving that ICE market wide open to competitors in India and China.
Toyota also makes a strong environmental scientific case for self-charging hybrids with low CO2 emissions as a practical alternative to 100% EVs.
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