Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation

[L' Hobo]

All rest by 2028. Driving licence alterations have until 2030

This^^^^

We Pay in france. The foreign trucks and commercial have yo pay to drive in the UK

But the vehicle,including mine as a non resident, is only allowed 6 months

And when I live in the uk it is the same.why offer discounts?

Those on benefits

You seem to forget the two world wars we paid for up until recently?

I'm curious, how do foreign trucks pay in the UK, they never used to, unlike my truck when I wanted to use the French motorways.

 

[Lenny HB]

I'm curious, how do foreign trucks pay in the UK, they never used to, unlike my truck when I wanted to use the French motorways.

Over 12 tonne they pay £10/day max £1000/year.
Looks like it's paid direct to HMRC.

HGV road user levy

The HGV levy ensures all HGVs from 12 tonnes and over make a contribution when they use UK roads.

www.gov.uk

 

[L' Hobo]

Over 12 tonne they pay £10/day max £1000/year.
Looks like it's paid direct to HMRC.

HGV road user levy

The HGV levy ensures all HGVs from 12 tonnes and over make a contribution when they use UK roads.

www.gov.uk

I retired in 2013 so was not involved but it looks like ALL truck are having to pay.
UK registered ones through VED.

At least the French one don't have to pay extra for using our motorways.

Foreign Euro 5 31000+kg cost £46.80 per month, seems like a bargain!
Cost me more in tolls a day down to Paris!

 

[gus-lopez]

I'm curious, how do foreign trucks pay in the UK, they never used to, unlike my truck when I wanted to use the French motorways.

as per Lenny's post but any that have not paid in advance have to pay at the "bungalow"office at Dover.

 

[MichaelT]

I retired in 2013 so was not involved but it looks like ALL truck are having to pay.
UK registered ones through VED.

At least the French one don't have to pay extra for using our motorways.

Foreign Euro 5 31000+kg cost £46.80 per month, seems like a bargain!
Cost me more in tolls a day down to Paris!

We could always introduce tolls here if you like, that would make it more even?

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[VXman]

Tell you what, I will swap my disabilities and "freebies" with you.

I just said I dislike people 'boasting' about what they get. I said this as I have have come across a couple of instances of this recently.

 

[WESTY66]

I just said I dislike people 'boasting' about what they get. I said this as I have have come across a couple of instances of this recently.

Probably the only ones boasting about it don’t really need it!
It’s about time disability was more defined! And yes I have a dad that is severely disabled!

 

[Jim]

The government are good to disabled people in the UK. (From peoples taxes). Bugs me when disabled people boast about what they get for free though.

Taxpayers do include the disabled

 

[VXman]

I think the DVLA official did give a reference of legislation to rod_vw at post #102 above for N1 vehicles, even if it didn’t explain how it can remain as N1 once up plated above the N1 category, but the legislation does appear to cover it (see below).

“Vehicle registration and taxation is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act
1994. The taxation requirements for N1 type approved vehicles are provided for in
Schedule 1, Part 1B (light goods vehicles) of this Act.
This specifies that any post-registration modifications made to such a vehicle cannot affect
its current status. This means that the type approval category and tax class that was
recorded at first registration must remain.”

I’ve had a look at the legislation referred to above and this is the actual wording (note it’s in the Light Goods Vehicles (i.e N1) section of the Schedule):

(3) If a vehicle is on first registration [F71, under this Act or under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom,] a vehicle to which this Part of this Schedule applies its status as such a vehicle is not affected by a subsequent modification of the vehicle. (my bold).

There is similar wording in the general M1 heading, but M1 doesn’t have such a stringent weight limit (none n fact) and the relevant motor caravan section specifically refers back to this:

(5) If a vehicle is on first registration [F20, under this Act or under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom,] a vehicle to which this Part of this Schedule applies —

(a) its status as such a vehicle, and

(b) the applicable CO<span>2</span> emissions figure,

are not affected by any subsequent modification of the vehicle. (my bold again).

So, they’ll not be able to do anything about it remaining as M1 but will they seek to impose the original ‘Tax Class’ as recorded at first registration? I’ve not found anything in there as yet that references that aspect of it.

Here’s a link to the Act and Schedule 1 is the relevant part:

Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994

An Act to consolidate the enactments relating to vehicle excise duty and the registration of vehicles.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Sorry if I'm being thick but.....This isn't new legislation? You are saying this was already the case .

Therefore why was my 3500kg VED reduced to £165 when I increased the weight to 4250kg? Have the government stated that the DVLA are to stop doing this?

 

[VXman]

Taxpayers do include the disabled

Yes aware of that - just qualifying because I said 'the government'. Many people think the government has a bottomless purse and it doesn't come from people. In the same vein unemployed, people in receipt of universal benefit, pensioners etc do include tax payers. Again - it wasn't the point of my comment which you to are missing or choosing to ignore for the sake of creating an argument.

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[VXman]

I’m not a sponger. I’ve paid way way way more in all types of tax than I will ever realise back… I’m still paying tax now and consuming virtually no services, so it’s been a very very one way street of paying and not receiving through my whole life to date.

I suppose it depends on your income and tax level. I guess Elton John could probably claim that was the case. I have been in the top 10% of earners for much of my working life but after spending a week in hospital and seeing how many resources were allocated to me I'd be surprised if my tax payments over the years really fully fund the 'benefits' I receive as a UK citizen. I think you'd be surprised by the amount of hidden services you pay for out of your taxes.

 

[PaulW2]

I suppose it depends on your income and tax level. I guess Elton John could probably claim that was the case. I have been in the top 10% of earners for much of my working life but after spending a week in hospital and seeing how many resources were allocated to me I'd be surprised if my tax payments over the years really fully fund the 'benefits' I receive as a UK citizen. I think you'd be surprised by the amount of hidden services you pay for out of your taxes.

Well yes, it’s wrongly premised. The same country and economy that taxes you is also the one that gave you the chance. You didn’t make your own circumstances, luck, intelligence or physical abilities.

And the chance you had to be in the top 10% was given to you, and relied partly on the existence of the 90% who had poorer income.

Without the system, no job, without the 90%, no top 10%. Without the 99%, no 1%.

The discussion of what we give and what we deserve shouldn’t start with how much tax we pay. That is an end point.

 

[Orion]

Sorry if I'm being thick but.....This isn't new legislation? You are saying this was already the case .

It’s been in place, certainly for vehicles originally registered as N1, since the Act came into force circa 1994. It would appear that it’s only recently that some bright spark at the DVLA has picked up on that section of the Schedule that states that N1 cannot be altered on up plating, so now it’s being applied.

Therefore why was my 3500kg VED reduced to £165 when I increased the weight to 4250kg? Have the government stated that the DVLA are to stop doing this?

Was it recently? If N1, then as above. If your Moho is M1 then even now perhaps they haven’t got around to imposing it on that class of vehicles judging by a few replies on this thread or, as M1 doesn’t have a defined weight limit anyway maybe it’s not as cut and dried to refuse the change of tax clsss from PLG to PHGV. The DVLA reply to rod_vw, which only mentions N1 vehicles, could add weight (pun intended) to that theory.

 

[gus-lopez]

as M1 doesn’t have a defined weight limit anyway maybe it’s not as cut and dried to refuse the change of tax clsss from PLG to PHGV. The DVLA reply to @rod_vw, which only mentions N1 vehicles, could add weight (pun intended) to that theory.

Yes no weight but max of 8 seats inc driver.If more then it is M2 ,as long as under 5 tonnes.If over then it is M3.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

It’s been in place, certainly for vehicles originally registered as N1, since the Act came into force circa 1994. It would appear that it’s only recently that some bright spark at the DVLA has picked up on that section of the Schedule that states that N1 cannot be altered on up plating, so now it’s being applied.

Was it recently? If N1, then as above. If your Moho is M1 then even now perhaps they haven’t got around to imposing it on that class of vehicles judging by a few replies on this thread or, as M1 doesn’t have a defined weight limit anyway maybe it’s not as cut and dried to refuse the change of tax clsss from PLG to PHGV. The DVLA reply to rod_vw, which only mentions N1 vehicles, could add weight (pun intended) to that theory.

So…..I am having difficulty here; N1 cannot change taxation class but M1 or blank can do that? SV Tech advise that the taxation class cannot be changed, full stop. I am a little confused (easy when you have the brain of a duck)

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[The Artilleryman]

Motorhomes are M1 and there is no weight limit.
Camper vans N1 if 3500kg or less, N2 if over 3500kg on 1st registration.

VED is charged on motorcaravans dependent on Revenue weight :-
3500kg or less (private/light goods) £365
over 3500kg (private heavy goods)

DVLA are saying that N1 cannot be changed to N2 - but will change MTPM to over 3500kg without changing Revenue weight, therefore it is now a heavy vehicle.

 

[Guzziando]

Motorhomes are M1 and there is no weight limit.
Camper vans N1 if 3500kg or less, N2 if over 3500kg on 1st registration.

VED is charged on motorcaravans dependent on Revenue weight :-
3500kg or less (private/light goods) £365
over 3500kg (private heavy goods)

DVLA are saying that N1 cannot be changed to N2 - but will change MTPM to over 3500kg without changing Revenue weight, therefore it is now a heavy vehicle.

When you say motorcaravan, do you mean motorhome?

 

[poppycamper]

Camper vans N1 if 3500kg or less, N2 if over 3500kg on 1st registration.

Are you sure about that... I think camper vans that are converted and registered from new as motorcaravan (van with windows) are M1..
It is only camper vans that are converted and registered as motorcaravans after the base vehicle, as a van has already been registered and therefore N1.. and that cannot be changed to M1..

 

[poppycamper]

When you say motorcaravan, do you mean motorhome?

In DVLA's eyes no such thing as motorhome....everything is motorcaravans on log books..

 

[DerryW]

Just got my tax renewal notice for end of month 165 quid for 3850 kg which I uprated from 3500 3 years ago. Iam going to tax immediately just in case robber Reeves puts it up.

Just (fortnight ago) done mine for that exact same reason. Also filled the central heating oil tank at same time.

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[DuxDeluxe]

Motorhomes are M1 and there is no weight limit.
Camper vans N1 if 3500kg or less, N2 if over 3500kg on 1st registration.

VED is charged on motorcaravans dependent on Revenue weight :-
3500kg or less (private/light goods) £365
over 3500kg (private heavy goods)

DVLA are saying that N1 cannot be changed to N2 - but will change MTPM to over 3500kg without changing Revenue weight, therefore it is now a heavy vehicle.

So despite SV tech advising that they will no longer change the taxation class to the lower VED, in fact they will do so despite M1 being in part J of the V5

 

[The Artilleryman]

In DVLA's eyes no such thing as motorhome....everything is motorcaravans on log books..

Except here :- https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-motorhomes

 

[Orion]

So…..I am having difficulty here; N1 cannot change taxation class but M1 or blank can do that? SV Tech advise that the taxation class cannot be changed, full stop. I am a little confused (easy when you have the brain of a duck)

So despite SV tech advising that they will no longer change the taxation class to the lower VED, in fact they will do so despite M1 being in part J of the V5

Yes to the first part - DVLA are now apparently refusing to change the Tax Class of vehicles originally registered as N1 to reflect the lower rate for PHGV.

There have been some posts further up the thread from those who have relatively recently up plated M1 vehicles from 3500kg and also had the Tax Class changed to PHGV for the lower current rate of £165 - as would ‘normally’ be expected.

Knowing how inconsistent the DVLA can be in applying any regulations, I think it’s too early to state either way that M1 vehicles are, or are not, going to escape the same ruling as hitting N1, but we shall see.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Are you sure about that... I think camper vans that are converted and registered from new as motorcaravan (van with windows) are M1..
It is only camper vans that are converted and registered as motorcaravans after the base vehicle, as a van has already been registered and therefore N1.. and that cannot be changed to M1..

Orion beat me to it.

Quite possible, but DVLA are saying N1 cannot be changed to M1 or N2.

The problem at this moment in time appears to only affect N1 registered vehicles.

M1 vehicles are being up plated as I and one other in this thread ( June & October 2024) have had ours up plated and have PHGV as our tax rate.

 

[Orion]

Except here :- https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-motorhomes

That’s a good official source to quote back at DVLA if they’re going to try and refuse changing the Tax Class of an M1 Motorcaravan on up plating above 3500kg.

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[DuxDeluxe]

Yes to the first part - DVLA are now apparently refusing to change the Tax Class of vehicles originally registered as N1 to reflect the lower rate for PHGV.

There have been some posts further up the thread from those who have relatively recently up plated M1 vehicles from 3500kg and also had the Tax Class changed to PHGV for the lower current rate of £165 - as would normally’ be expected.

Knowing how inconsistent the DVLA can be in applying any regulations, I think it’s too early to state either way that M1 vehicles are, or are not, going to escape the same ruling as hitting N1, but we shall see.

Ok thanks, now I get it. Despite the message in the SV Tech letter, I took the view that it was better to ask forgiveness than to seek permission and when I sent the V5 off (M1 in section J) using the logic that they could only say no, I applied to change the taxation class to PHGV as well as the 4000kg uprate. Not only was the V5 waiting on the doormat when we got back today with 4000 kg and PHGV taxation class plus a separate letter telling me to change the direct debit by applying for new one and cancelling the previous.

The moral of this story is to apply for PHGV anyway

Happy duck!

 

[BikerGraham]

The Tax I despise is the Council Tax.
As a single person who is not at home for a many weeks/months of the year,
Every year, the Council Tax goes up and every year the services go down.

We have now been told that our bin collection will be every 3weeks. Remember the good old days when it was every week?
Who wants 3week old rubbish sitting next to one's door in the heights of summer?

And before anyone points it out, yes I do get a 25% reduction but, because of cutbacks in service and rarely here, I think 50% would be fairer OR not YEARLY increases!

It’s even more unfair system though.

Why do I pay more for a 2 bedroom flat than some pay for a 3 bedroom semi in some parts of the country.

But it is what it is. Pointless worrying about it.

 

[Orion]

So despite SV tech advising that they will no longer change the taxation class to the lower VED, in fact they will do so despite M1 being in part J of the V5

I’ve just been back to the SV Tech website and they’ve made a small alteration to the ‘News’ - note the insertion of ‘may’. So it’s not crystal (to them at least) whether DVLA will include M1 in the same policy afflicting N1 vehicles. Hopefully your up plating experience will be indicative of the way forward.

https://www.svtech.co.uk/taxclass/

** Following a change within the DVLA policy section (July ’24), weight changes to vehicles having a vehicle category (J) as either M1 or N1, on the V5C ‘may’ not have a tax change following a weight alteration.​

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I’ve just been back to the SV Tech website and they’ve made a small alteration to the ‘News’ - note the insertion of ‘may’. So it’s not crystal (to them at least) whether DVLA will include M1 in the same policy afflicting N1 vehicles. Hopefully your up plating experience will be indicative of the way forward.

https://www.svtech.co.uk/taxclass/

** Following a change within the DVLA policy section (July ’24), weight changes to vehicles having a vehicle category (J) as either M1 or N1, on the V5C ‘may’ not have a tax change following a weight alteration.​

Yes, that is a change in the words from their letter. Glad I did not take it as gospel

 

[Barclaybasher]

There seems to little logic around VED rates, pollution, fuel types and weight.

Logic says there is no case for heavier MHs to pay less than lighter vehicles.

If the system is completely overhauled it's likely we will all pay more......

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