Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation

[The Wino]

I can see all 4250kg (if the weight goes up from 3.5 to 4.25) and under paying the £345 or whatever that goes up to, they have a 22 billion black hole to fill

Why wouldn't they all pay the £345 they or any other government are likely to reduce them all to the lower amount! It might make sense to leave those with the cheaper ved on that until the next renewal but I can't see why they wouldn't change it then

 

[The Wino]

That’ll be fun to see with the light haulage, courier, delivery industry, unions, etc. etc. as yet another pack of dogs to rag them all the way to the next election in 2029 - if not before!

PHG is only for non commercial users so why would they be interested if the PHG rate goes up

 

[enark]

Why start at 70, why not 65?

It doesn't make sense as 70 is now the new 60!

Yep, wouldnt be suprised if they put medicals (at individuals cost) to 65, as they have removed WFP, and will no doubt steal from pension funds.

 

[Northernraider]

PHG is only for non commercial users so why would they be interested if the PHG rate goes up

The only difference between hgv and phgv

If and it's a big if they attempted to justify doing away with the phgv they'd have a fight on their hands from anyone with a backbone.

Anyone that effected that did nothing is a prime example of how the government has increasingly became so corrupt. Because previous generations have allowed it to happen.

Private or not it is still an hgv and should be the same roadtax.

IF they increase the limit that defines an hgv from 3500kg to 4250kg THAT is the only group it should affect . Anything over 4250kg remains an hgv.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Having just spoken to SVTECH they state that the only change is the non change in RFL when you go up from 3500 kg to whatever you chose. If your vehicle was origionally 3500kg you will NOT benefit fron the Private HGV rate. Al the rest is total pie in the sky.
Sorry chaps,

The problem here is a total lack of understanding by DVLA.

If a vehicles gross weight exceeds 3500kg, then it is a HEAVY vehicle. This has not changed, so a vehicle up plated to 3501kg or heavier is by definition a Heavy Goods Vehicle - there is no other definition for a heavy vehicle - and DVLA cannot on a whim change it.

Therefore Private Heavy Goods Vehicle is what should be on the V5c, with a Revenue weight of of whatever the weight is.

Motorhomes classed M1 are going through OK as I and one other on here can testify to.

Anybody who thinks this is irrelevant if going to the EU needs to remember the days of cars being stooped and fined in France for failing to carry such things, as warning triangles etc. A nice little earner for the French.

Dvla has never been fit for purpose since it was created. And some genius there getting a bee in there bonnet that we are up plating to avoid VED, goes to prove this. If they refused to up plate any vehicle on these grounds, it might be understandable, but as a large number of motorhomes were down plated to allow them to be driven on a category B licence, it would mean they could never be up plated to there original spec.

A simple solution would be a VED class covering ALL motorcaravans with a single rate.

Camper vans classed N1 seem to have a problem, although as they would be over 3500kg they become N2.

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[poppycamper]

Camper vans classed N1 seem to have a problem, although as they would be over 3500kg they become N2.

As you say The Artilleryman total can of worns..
However your above statement not true..
My van, classed as Motor Caravan gross weight 4.1t and therefore PHGV is classed as N1.....not N2

 

[The Artilleryman]

Therefore it is incorrect as N1 has a GVW not exceeding 3500kg.

Whether this was done when 1st registered or when up plated, is another matter.

 

[WESTY66]

Why don’t they just make it simple for gods sake
<4501kg £500 B licence
+4501kg £0 C1 licence

 

[poppycamper]

Therefore it is incorrect as N1 has a GVW not exceeding 3500kg.

Whether this was done when 1st registered or when up plated, is another matter.

As I said... Can o Worms!!

 

[slowdriver]

oops

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[slowdriver]

Only if she has a Spanish licence.

Why would that be?

 

[Lenny HB]

Why would that be?

So far only the Spanish are implementing it, its down to EU countries when they implement it.
UK is not EU they may follow in time but may not.

 

[David and Sally]

So far only the Spanish are implementing it, its down to EU countries when they implement it.
UK is not EU they may follow in time but may not.

So much for EU harmony

 

[Apacheman]

What about if you went on a real holiday for 6 - 9 months. Would it be worth it then ?

Again everyone’s definition of a real holiday is different! 6-9 months for me would be relocating not a holiday. With younger grandkids etc I wouldn’t want to be away so long but each to their own. You would need a visa to do such a long trip. Not done one so don’t know the costs? That said I’ve met people in Spain living under the ‘radar’ so to speak, another matter. If you’re going to that length and expense would you be so concerned about saving money on the VED? For someone who said they’d never do it you sure put forward plenty of arguments to suggest one should??

 

[The Wino]

Again everyone’s definition of a real holiday is different! 6-9 months for me would be relocating not a holiday. You would need a visa to do such a long trip. Not done one so don’t know the costs? If you’re going to that length and expense would you be so concerned about saving money on the VED? For someone who said they’d never do it you sure put forward plenty of arguments to suggest one should??

The problem we have since moving and retiring is we have so much to do and places we like nearby that anything over a few weeks away just doesn't appeal no matter where it is. We were all set to book to go to Australia earlier this year then thought what we'd miss!

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[Northernraider]

Again everyone’s definition of a real holiday is different! 6-9 months for me would be relocating not a holiday. You would need a visa to do such a long trip. Not done one so don’t know the costs? If you’re going to that length and expense would you be so concerned about saving money on the VED? For someone who said they’d never do it you sure put forward plenty of arguments to suggest one should??

I don't do it because it isn't worth the hassle.

My argument isn't the money but the principle.

My argument is everyone should be able to do it.
Regardless of the name and all the ins and outs we pay it as a road tax , if not using the roads then we shouldn't have to pay it if I'm using the roads in France Spain etc etc why am I paying for the shitty condition ones in the UK at the same time?

Insurance yes ...you need to be covered in case you have an accident anywhere.

Mot yes your vehicle needs to be roadworthy and safe ( although an mot often does NOT guarantee that) and the state of the roads is damaging it every year.

Road tax ... well its just another scam by UK government, the roads are diabolical and if not using them then shouldn't be paying it


P.s you don't need a visa to travel out the UK for 6 -9 months . In fact if it wasn't for the mot requirement I could travel indefinitely. There's more to Europe than France.
And the costs ...well its cheaper for me to travel 6 months in Europe than it would be to stay in the UK.

 

[Carpmart]

I don't do it because it isn't worth the hassle.

My argument isn't the money but the principle.

My argument is everyone should be able to do it.
Regardless of the name and all the ins and outs we pay it as a road tax , if not using the roads then we shouldn't have to pay it if I'm using the roads in France Spain etc etc why am I paying for the shitty condition ones in the UK at the same time?

Insurance yes ...you need to be covered in case you have an accident anywhere.

Mot yes your vehicle needs to be roadworthy and safe ( although an mot often does NOT guarantee that) and the state of the roads is damaging it every year.

Road tax ... well its just another scam by UK government, the roads are diabolical and if not using them then shouldn't be paying it


P.s you don't need a visa to travel out the UK for 6 -9 months . In fact if it wasn't for the mot requirement I could travel indefinitely. There's more to Europe than France.
And the costs ...well its cheaper for me to travel 6 months in Europe than it would be to stay in the UK.

Agree.. we are away for nine months at a time.. MOT and not enjoying travel so much in the summer months sees us ‘at home’ June/July/Aug.

 

[PaulW2]

So much for EU harmony

As I understand it they’re all doing it by a certain date (?) but they’re not all implementing it at the same time

 

[MichaelT]

I don't do it because it isn't worth the hassle.

My argument isn't the money but the principle.

My argument is everyone should be able to do it.
Regardless of the name and all the ins and outs we pay it as a road tax , if not using the roads then we shouldn't have to pay it if I'm using the roads in France Spain etc etc why am I paying for the shitty condition ones in the UK at the same time?

Insurance yes ...you need to be covered in case you have an accident anywhere.

Mot yes your vehicle needs to be roadworthy and safe ( although an mot often does NOT guarantee that) and the state of the roads is damaging it every year.

Road tax ... well its just another scam by UK government, the roads are diabolical and if not using them then shouldn't be paying it

But you can use the same argument for paying taxes I'm not using schools, hospitals, doctors etc so why should I pay.

 

[L' Hobo]

As I understand it they’re all doing it by a certain date (?) but they’re not all implementing it at the same time

When I was in the international transport business and we still belonged to the EU, I found that only Britain implemented ALL new regulations, the rest of the countries did also if it was to their benefit but ignored it if it wasn't!
I was very annoying on occasions as my vehicles were registered in the UK and some countries would use the UK/EU rules to enforce restrictions on those regulations this helping their own Coach companies.

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[PaulW2]

When I was in the international transport business and we still belonged to the EU, I found that only Britain implemented ALL new regulations, the rest of the countries did also if it was to their benefit but ignored it if it wasn't!
I was very annoying on occasions as my vehicles were registered in the UK and some countries would use the UK/EU rules to enforce restrictions on those regulations this helping their own Coach companies.

I'm not convinced we ever really managed it properly.

For instance EU countries are able to restrict how long unemployed citizens from other countries can 'squat' in their countries. But it relies on keeping tabs on people. Works well for them, with the ebb and flow of workers as needed. We got ourselves terribly knotted about this. (We don't have id cards, we don't keep track of people, they don't need to register with a local office and so on.)

Or, trivially, do something like a motorcycle licence. Manoeuvres at 50 km/h. Which is 32 mph, which we don't have as a speed limit anywhere. Just a bit ... strange.

Seems that some of the rules that could have worked for us were never properly used and other pettifogging bureaucratic nonsense was taken as gospel.

 

[The Wino]

I don't do it because it isn't worth the hassle.

My argument isn't the money but the principle.

My argument is everyone should be able to do it.
Regardless of the name and all the ins and outs we pay it as a road tax , if not using the roads then we shouldn't have to pay it if I'm using the roads in France Spain etc etc why am I paying for the shitty condition ones in the UK at the same time?

Insurance yes ...you need to be covered in case you have an accident anywhere.

Mot yes your vehicle needs to be roadworthy and safe ( although an mot often does NOT guarantee that) and the state of the roads is damaging it every year.

Road tax ... well its just another scam by UK government, the roads are diabolical and if not using them then shouldn't be paying it


P.s you don't need a visa to travel out the UK for 6 -9 months . In fact if it wasn't for the mot requirement I could travel indefinitely. There's more to Europe than France.
And the costs ...well its cheaper for me to travel 6 months in Europe than it would be to stay in the UK.

You're paying for the roads in the UK because we have a reciprocal agreement with other countries that lets their vehicles use our roads if they let us use theirs. What you're suggesting is not paying for ours because you're not here and getting free access elsewhere because you have come from here a sort of have your cake and eat it!

 

[L' Hobo]

You're paying for the roads in the UK because we have a reciprocal agreement with other countries that lets their vehicles use our roads if they let us use theirs. What you're suggesting is not paying for ours because you're not here and getting free access elsewhere because you have come from here a sort of have your cake and eat it!

Perhaps Tam would be happy (or not) if all road were toll roads, then he would only have to pay if he was using them?

 

[georgio]

I think I might sorn myself to avoid any further tax ! !

 

[L' Hobo]

I think I might sorn myself to avoid any further tax ! !

I thought initially, now that's an idea, but then I thought, as I'm sorn and not allowed on the road, how do I get down to the shops without crossing one?

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[Apacheman]

I don't do it because it isn't worth the hassle.

My argument isn't the money but the principle.

My argument is everyone should be able to do it.
Regardless of the name and all the ins and outs we pay it as a road tax , if not using the roads then we shouldn't have to pay it if I'm using the roads in France Spain etc etc why am I paying for the shitty condition ones in the UK at the same time?

Insurance yes ...you need to be covered in case you have an accident anywhere.

Mot yes your vehicle needs to be roadworthy and safe ( although an mot often does NOT guarantee that) and the state of the roads is damaging it every year.

Road tax ... well its just another scam by UK government, the roads are diabolical and if not using them then shouldn't be paying it


P.s you don't need a visa to travel out the UK for 6 -9 months . In fact if it wasn't for the mot requirement I could travel indefinitely. There's more to Europe than France.
And the costs ...well its cheaper for me to travel 6 months in Europe than it would be to stay in the UK.

My mistake as believed that without a visa UK citizens could only spend 90 days in Europe (Schengen area) in a 12 month period. I’m sure there’s been posts on the site about that. I’m always happy to be educated.
On our last trip of around 4000 miles we paid one toll, €6.80, to cross the Seine at Pont du Normandy so realistically didn’t pay to use French/Spanish roads.

 

[Badknee]

I was told they don't and never have changed the MTPLM on the V5 when up plating. Showing 3500 is not a problem according to SV Tech

Incorrect. I had mine changed at the second attempt. Both the same now.

 

[Lenny HB]

My mistake as believed that without a visa UK citizens could only spend 90 days in Europe (Schengen area) in a 12 month period.

It's 90 days in a rolling 180 days.

 

[Fragle]

Incorrect. I had mine changed at the second attempt. Both the same now.

Information was from SV Tech.

Mine was not changed because at the time I was not aware of the potential issue until this thread. I am now.

Obviously you asked for it after it came back as I said at 3500 and they complied.

I will not ask now for my mtplm to be changed to 3900 as knowing how they work they will probably revert the revenue to £300+

 

[Vic]

Road tax, vehicle excise duty is just another tax. In 1937 it was agreed that it would go into central funds and not solely used to maintain the roads. They could just stick on the price of fuel, oh, they already do that and then charge VAT.

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