Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation

[Apacheman]

It's 90 days in a rolling 180 days.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[VXman]

Sorry - doing a 'gus' here. Just catching up on a lot of pages not seen!

This is going to sound weird to some of you, but I am not that interested in the Road Tax aspect. We are already being robbed, so a little more doesn't bother me.

That's your view which is fine. I like to save a fuel quid wherever I can. Not short of money but it's in my DNA.

I agree. If I can afford to run a motorhome I can afford an increase in RFL.

As above - So can I but I don't like to waste money.

Not bothered about the RFL don't pay it OH has a blue badge and the toad is only £20, so MH is the disabled vehicle

The government are good to disabled people in the UK. (From peoples taxes). Bugs me when disabled people boast about what they get for free though.

There'll be a "tax in post " disc on the feckin windie

I think you'll find that doesn't work in the 21st century.

I was told that after a certain number of months (I think it was 6) and the vehicle not returning to UK, it would HAVE to be reregistered in that other country?

I'm not sure about us in the EU but the general rule in the UK is that you ca drive a on a foreign registration and driving licence for 12 m9nths and then need to comply with UK laws on registration/licences. I imagine it's the same for being abroad.

Afraid I've not read all 9 pages . I'm really not bothered about the VED aspect. But, if I understand it correctly, from March next year, anyone with a full licence can drive a vehicle up to 4250, up from current 3500. Which to me sounds excellent, as otherwise the potential market for over 3500 vans is shrinking year on year...
Am I correct?

Well - no one has posted a link to anywhere that the government state this yet. the only source seems to be a you tube video and SV tech.

What's SORN got to do with it?

Enormous thread drift.

I don't even know why they allow any type of reduction whatsoever. Here, in spain,if you 'sorn' a vehicle the itv(Mot) is cancelled immediately even if it passed the day before.
To remove the sorn the vehicle has to be ITV'd but legally cannot travel on the road to get to it & must be transported on a trailer or recovery truck.
Plus you pay to put it on a sorn
then you have to pay to get it taken to the itv station
then pay for a new itv
then you can pay to get it taken off the sorn

Doesn't really matter what Spain does. Most of us are in the UK.

Just to add fuel to the fire,
(and I know I have said further up that I am now in the 'cant SORN it' camp.

I've just read the GOV site that says, quite clearly that if your vehicles VEL does not run out at the end of the month in which you apply to SORN it then the application for SORN does not take place immediately,but the following month.
From where I stand, that means that if your VEL does not run out that month, you could make the application on the 1st or 2nd of the month and you would have the rest of the month, with a non SORNed vehicle to drive it with a current VEL, over to Europe and put it on a site off the road.
Discuss please

SORN applies when immediately applied for. You'll just lose the rest of the month.

No doubt the Insurance Companies will be rubbing their grubby hands together with premium increases for all those heavier Motorhomes.

My insurance didn't change when I up plated from 3500 to 4250.

Having just spoken to SVTECH they state that the only change is the non change in RFL when you go up from 3500 kg to whatever you chose. If your vehicle was origionally 3500kg you will NOT benefit fron the Private HGV rate. Al the rest is total pie in the sky.
Sorry chaps,

Still not seen any link to official info on this. I need to see it from the government not SVtech.

 

[The Wino]

Road tax, vehicle excise duty is just another tax. In 1937 it was agreed that it would go into central funds and not solely used to maintain the roads. They could just stick on the price of fuel, oh, they already do that and then charge VAT.

True but what would you sooner they taxed?

 

[PaulW2]

True but what would you sooner they taxed?

We should look at it in totality of course. Tax is 35.3% of GDP in the UK.

And GDP itself entails some fancy footwork. For example, for people who own houses the official GDP numbers include an amount in respect of imputed rent - the rent you would have paid if you didn't own it. This, I recently read, could be as high as 10% of GDP? So lots of ... funny stuff in GDP.

But the tax numbers are real.

We are of course bad people. We spend many nights in motorhomes without spending much money (bad for GDP) instead of staying in hotels (good for GDP). Many of us no longer work (bad), depend on state pensions (bad), and the NHS.

Now the NHS is probably a bit moot. When we are healthy this isn't measured in GDP. But when we get sick, the health expenditure is measured in GDP. Some of us, by being in bad health, are therefore good for GDP. Selfish healthy bastards are a drain on our GDP.

 

[Gellyneck]

I thought initially, now that's an idea, but then I thought, as I'm sorn and not allowed on the road, how do I get down to the shops without crossing one?

Get with the times! It's called Deliveroo (others are available) now!

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[Puddleduck]

The government are good to disabled people in the UK. (From peoples taxes). Bugs me when disabled people boast about what they get for free though.

I'm not sure that I get anything for "free".

I do get a small discount on my council tax because I use a wheelchair but that is offset by the adaptations I have had to make to stay in this house. It would cost the taxpayer more if I had to move. There are more adaptations to make and I am waiting for quotations plus planning consent / agreement so I can go ahead with a better ramp and more wheel friendly access.

My electric use has increased by about 50%. As prices have also increased that has had a huge impact on budgets.

I do get "free" RFL but as I rent an EV that would be zero anyway (at the moment). Because of the wheelchair the choice of vehicles is very restricted. The motorhome has gone as I could no longer access it. I pay the rental for my car and had to make a very substantial deposit even under a special rental arrangement.

I have found that the NHS have written me off and I have been discharged from all hospital services so have had to seek private referrals - which I have to fund. There is no disabled access at the scanning suite in the hospital so all scans have to be done at a private hospital 50 miles away and I pay for this. Same with such basic tests as regular mammograms - no access to the mobile units so it's private tests which I have to pay for.

I do have a blue badge which gives me extra time in carparks but in many there is still a charge even with a blue badge.

Some required equipment is exempt from VAT but without the disability I would not need these things (such as a specialist bed). The bed cost over £2000 when a standard bed would be about 1/4 of that cost. I am not sure that the "VAT free" tickets negates the extra cost.

Tell you what, I will swap my disabilities and "freebies" with you.

 

[PaulW2]

I'm not sure that I get anything for "free".

I do get a small discount on my council tax because I use a wheelchair but that is offset by the adaptations I have had to make to stay in this house. It would cost the taxpayer more if I had to move. There are more adaptations to make and I am waiting for quotations plus planning consent / agreement so I can go ahead with a better ramp and more wheel friendly access.

My electric use has increased by about 50%. As prices have also increased that has had a huge impact on budgets.

I do get "free" RFL but as I rent an EV that would be zero anyway (at the moment). Because of the wheelchair the choice of vehicles is very restricted. The motorhome has gone as I could no longer access it.

I have found that the NHS have written me off and I have been discharged from all hospital services so have had to seek private referrals - which I have to fund. There is no disabled access at the scanning suite in the hospital so all scans have to be done at a private hospital 50 miles away and I pay for this. Same with such basic tests as regular mammograms - no access to the mobile units so it's private tests which I have to pay for.

I do have a blue badge which gives me extra time in carparks but in many there is still a charge even with a blue badge.

Tell you what, I will swap my disabilities and "freebies" with you.

We're either all 'spongers' or none of us are. Those are the two coherent positions.

The rest is all political confected nonsense.

 

[The Wino]

I'm not sure that I get anything for "free".

I do get a small discount on my council tax because I use a wheelchair but that is offset by the adaptations I have had to make to stay in this house. It would cost the taxpayer more if I had to move. There are more adaptations to make and I am waiting for quotations plus planning consent / agreement so I can go ahead with a better ramp and more wheel friendly access.

My electric use has increased by about 50%. As prices have also increased that has had a huge impact on budgets.

I do get "free" RFL but as I rent an EV that would be zero anyway (at the moment). Because of the wheelchair the choice of vehicles is very restricted. The motorhome has gone as I could no longer access it.

I have found that the NHS have written me off and I have been discharged from all hospital services so have had to seek private referrals - which I have to fund. There is no disabled access at the scanning suite in the hospital so all scans have to be done at a private hospital 50 miles away and I pay for this. Same with such basic tests as regular mammograms - no access to the mobile units so it's private tests which I have to pay for.

I do have a blue badge which gives me extra time in carparks but in many there is still a charge even with a blue badge.

Tell you what, I will swap my disabilities and "freebies" with you.

I sort of agree with what you're saying but there are of course a lot of countries in the world where people with long term illness have all the same problems without any funding and no healthcare once they reach the limit on their insurance. I don't think many wish they were disabled to get the benefits however I do think some who do get the benefits don't really appreciate them. Looking after less fortunate people in society in terms of disability, health, being unemployed etc I think is a mark of a civilised society but I don't think it can be an unlimited budget.

 

[Puddleduck]

We're either all 'spongers' or none of us are. Those are the two coherent positions.

The rest is all political confected nonsense.

I worked all my life and paid for critical health insurance. If not for that I would be on my uppers.

 

[The Wino]

We're either all 'spongers' or none of us are. Those are the two coherent positions.

The rest is all political confected nonsense.

I think as a generation we are all spongers. We have spent a lot more than we have paid for it's why the national debt has increased.

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[Orion]

Still not seen any link to official info on this. I need to see it from the government not SVtech.

I think the DVLA official did give a reference of legislation to rod_vw at post #102 above for N1 vehicles, even if it didn’t explain how it can remain as N1 once up plated above the N1 category, but the legislation does appear to cover it (see below).

“Vehicle registration and taxation is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act
1994. The taxation requirements for N1 type approved vehicles are provided for in
Schedule 1, Part 1B (light goods vehicles) of this Act.
This specifies that any post-registration modifications made to such a vehicle cannot affect
its current status. This means that the type approval category and tax class that was
recorded at first registration must remain.”

I’ve had a look at the legislation referred to above and this is the actual wording (note it’s in the Light Goods Vehicles (i.e N1) section of the Schedule):

(3) If a vehicle is on first registration [F71, under this Act or under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom,] a vehicle to which this Part of this Schedule applies its status as such a vehicle is not affected by a subsequent modification of the vehicle. (my bold).

There is similar wording in the general M1 heading, but M1 doesn’t have such a stringent weight limit (none n fact) and the relevant motor caravan section specifically refers back to this:

(5) If a vehicle is on first registration [F20, under this Act or under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom,] a vehicle to which this Part of this Schedule applies —

(a) its status as such a vehicle, and

(b) the applicable CO<span>2</span> emissions figure,

are not affected by any subsequent modification of the vehicle. (my bold again).

So, they’ll not be able to do anything about it remaining as M1 but will they seek to impose the original ‘Tax Class’ as recorded at first registration? I’ve not found anything in there as yet that references that aspect of it.

Here’s a link to the Act and Schedule 1 is the relevant part:

Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994

An Act to consolidate the enactments relating to vehicle excise duty and the registration of vehicles.

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[PaulW2]

I think as a generation we are all spongers. We have spent a lot more than we have paid for it's why the national debt has increased.

Not possible. There is a group of people - everyone on the planet or in the country - over a period of 30 years. And they somehow all sponged? How can that possibly work? Who did they sponge off? You can't sponge off people who don't exist.

We have to remember that there is a real world of things that we live in and then there are all the cultural stories we tell ourselves.

But I think even this is simply an unhelpful take on the question.

I think a proper enquiry will concede that no person is either an island or self-made, that all their gifts and abilities and circumstances and even their personalities are something which just happened as part of natural history. We don't bootstrap ourselves into existence.

So we are either all spongers, in that we all depend from conception on the webs that we form part of, or none of us are spongers as we are all just inevitable parts of the same system.

 

[georgio]

Just got my tax renewal notice for end of month 165 quid for 3850 kg which I uprated from 3500 3 years ago. Iam going to tax immediately just in case robber Reeves puts it up.

 

[The Wino]

Just got my tax renewal notice for end of month 165 quid for 3850 kg which I uprated from 3500 3 years ago. Iam going to tax immediately just in case robber Reeves puts it up.

Is taxation robbery? It's going in the tax pot which is where all our public services come from. None of us enjoy paying tax but equally not of us would probably enjoy life in a country with no public services no public roads no health service no state pension etc etc.

 

[L' Hobo]

Get with the times! It's called Deliveroo (others are available) now!

Sorry, I like cooking and prefer to know what going into my lithe, lean athletic body.

It also helps my lying!

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[L' Hobo]

I think as a generation we are all spongers. We have spent a lot more than we have paid for it's why the national debt has increased.

I think some of us are from a different generation than you it would seem?

Some of us would have be ashamed if we had to go on the dole, never mind accepting food from food banks!

 

[The Wino]

I think some of us are from a different generation than you it would seem?

Some of us would have be ashamed if we had to go on the dole, never mind accepting food from food banks!

And yet we have as a generation spent more than we earned and left the bill for the next generation the figures are a matter of fact. I too have never been on the dole or used a food bank neither though would I campaign for higher state pensions as a lot of here seem to having only paid for a very basic pension for generations before.

 

[PaulW2]

And yet we have as a generation spent more than we earned and left the bill for the next generation the figures are a matter of fact. I too have never been on the dole or used a food bank neither though would I campaign for higher state pensions as a lot of here seem to having only paid for a very basic pension for generations before.

Who is the money owed to?

 

[Carpmart]

I think as a generation we are all spongers. We have spent a lot more than we have paid for it's why the national debt has increased.

I’m not a sponger. I’ve paid way way way more in all types of tax than I will ever realise back… I’m still paying tax now and consuming virtually no services, so it’s been a very very one way street of paying and not receiving through my whole life to date.

TBH, don’t actually begrudge the situation, but your statement above really doesn’t reflect my situation…

 

[suavecarve]

None of us enjoy paying tax

I have learnt to love paying income tax. I just wish I could pay ten times more than I actually pay.

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[L' Hobo]

I’m not a sponger. I’ve paid way way way more in all types of tax than I will ever realise back… I’m still paying tax now and consuming virtually no services, so it’s been a very very one way street of paying and not receiving through my whole life to date.

TBH, don’t actually begrudge the situation, but your statement above really doesn’t reflect my situation…

The Tax I despise is the Council Tax.
As a single person who is not at home for a many weeks/months of the year,
Every year, the Council Tax goes up and every year the services go down.

We have now been told that our bin collection will be every 3weeks. Remember the good old days when it was every week?
Who wants 3week old rubbish sitting next to one's door in the heights of summer?

And before anyone points it out, yes I do get a 25% reduction but, because of cutbacks in service and rarely here, I think 50% would be fairer OR not YEARLY increases!

 

[The Wino]

I’m not a sponger. I’ve paid way way way more in all types of tax than I will ever realise back… I’m still paying tax now and consuming virtually no services, so it’s been a very very one way street of paying and not receiving through my whole life to date.

TBH, don’t actually begrudge the situation, but your statement above really doesn’t reflect my situation…

I did say as a generation not as individuals. It's like saying as a generation people in the 1960's created a lot of pollution it doesn't mean every individual did.

 

[L' Hobo]

I did say as a generation not as individuals. It's like saying as a generation people in the 1960's created a lot of pollution it doesn't mean every individual did.

Huh! I thought a generation was made up of individuals?

 

[The Wino]

Huh! I thought a generation was made up of individuals?

So if we have a generation who have higher life expectancy does every individual live longer or just the lucky ones?

 

[Lenny HB]

The Tax I despise is the Council Tax.
As a single person who is not at home for a many weeks/months of the year,
Every year, the Council Tax goes up and every year the services go down.

I still think the Poll Tax was the fairest system, the other good option would be a local income tax.

Seems totally unfair to base a tax on the value of your property that you have spent most of your life paying for out of taxed income.

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[The Wino]

I still think the Poll Tax was the fairest system, the other good option would be a local income tax.

Seems totally unfair to base a tax on the value of your property that you have spent most of your life paying for out of taxed income.

If you have local income tax won't that be taxing income you have already been taxed on too unless of course you are retired!

 

[gus-lopez]

So much for EU harmony

All rest by 2028. Driving licence alterations have until 2030

My argument isn't the money but the principle.

This^^^^

because you're not here and getting free access

We Pay in france. The foreign trucks and commercial have yo pay to drive in the UK

the general rule in the UK is that you ca drive a on a foreign registration and driving licence for 12 m9nths and then need to comply with UK laws

But the vehicle,including mine as a non resident, is only allowed 6 months

Doesn't really matter what Spain does. Most of us are in the UK.

And when I live in the uk it is the same.why offer discounts?

True but what would you sooner they taxed?

Those on benefits

and left the bill for the next generation the figures are a matter of fact.

You seem to forget the two world wars we paid for up until recently?

 

[Lenny HB]

If you have local income tax won't that be taxing income you have already been taxed on too unless of course you are retired!

True but it would be spread over all workers not just home owners/renters.

 

[PaulW2]

So my generation were fantastically virtuous. We inherited all this debt, contrived for it to reduce and all. We made peace, we did science, we sorted healthcare.

I did that, me with my own hands. Does anyone say "there goes Paul, the debt reducer"? Of course not, but draw just one pension ...

Then the next spivvy generation turned up, and just look what they did in 2008, the idiots. Americans even. Potayto Potahto.

Maybe another shrewd generation will turn up, get their shoulders to the wheel, and by the sweat of their brow do some ... monetary policy?

 

[L' Hobo]

So if we have a generation who have higher life expectancy does every individual live longer or just the lucky ones?

All of them could do, it would certainly raise the life expectancy of that generation!

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