Caravan and Motorhome club charges (1 Viewer)

[L' Hobo]

Are you sure? Many Aires in France are free. May pay a couple of Euros for water, but that is free on some. The most we have paid for an Aire is about €12, so about a tenner. Not many CLs and CSs charge as low as that nowadays. £20+ more likely.

But the main advantage is that most Aires iare in interesting villages or towns or within easy walking distance of them.

I have often wondered but never asked, would the large number of people, on here, who like/love FREE Aires, with EHU's abroad, be happy if their local council spent their Tax Payers money providing similar free site facilities near their towns and villages if they were occupied by foreigners most nights ??

 

[peterc10]

I have often wondered but never asked, would the large number of people, on here, who like/love FREE Aires, with EHU's abroad, be happy if their local council spent their Tax Payers money providing similar free site facilities near their towns and villages if they were occupied by foreigners most nights ??

Why not if it brings cash into the area. Lots of people over here complain about losing local facilities because of lack of customers. The reason that the French Aires are free is to encourage people to visit their villages and towns and spend money in the local businesses. We always make sure to spend some money when we are there.

 

[Swifter]

We will never attract European Motorhomes to the Uk in any volume . The roads and lack of facilities would be enough to put anyone off . I rarely see any foreign number plated Motorhomes in the Uk and I am driving for many hours a day . Good for the airlines and hotels I guess .

 

[Shrimp]

We dropped CAMC years ago and glad we did now, haven’t missed them at all.
We pay a digital membership to CaCC and we only use the CS sites and their THS sites.

 

[Don Campbell]

With greatest respect and without wanting to get into any disagreements, I took the time to outline precisely why the charges are there.

The highest charges will be from owners/operators who really do not want your business if you are bringing an animal, for the above reasons. That’s what businesses of all types do, if they can’t really be bothered with a certain type of business, they price themselves out of the market.

You have a choice if you don’t like the cost, you don’t need to bring your dog. You can kennel it, leave it with friends, or choose a site with different policies (more ‘dog friendly’).

You are comparing rentals with campsites and I understand your concern for carpets , furniture etc but we are talking about grass and open sites and it seems to many it’s just another way of upping the bill for no particular reason. If site owners don’t want dogs then say No Dogs and make it quite clear in all your advertising just as some sites say Adults Only.

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[Jim]

I seem to have started a varied debate but at the end of the day I look at it this way.

All CMHC caravan sites offer at most is

• group toilet and shower facilities
• van water and waste facilities
• usually pleasant open air surroundings
• a small and secure parcel of land to pitch (ie a barrier at entrance)

None of the above requires expensive maintenance and most sites only pay for 2 people to manage and maintain the cleanliness of this site while open for campers.

Not a huge financial overhead imo

Hence my question to why charges are so high, which they are !

Lets all open a site then, this time next year Rodney...

Land purchase, mortgage
Business rates
Public Liability Insurance
Staff, 2 on call, means at least 4 staff
Employers Insurance
Wages
Employers NI Contributions
Business waste collection,
Capital expenditure. mowers
Business Electricity
Electrity testing
Water Rates
Skips for Grass
Fuel for machinery. (I pay £30 a fortnight Just to keep ¾ acre mowed! using a machine that cost £5k!).

 

[dawsey]

Lets all open a site then, this time next year Rodney...

Land purchase, mortgage
Business rates
Public Liability Insurance
Staff, 2 on call, means at least 4 staff
Employers Insurance
Wages
Employers NI Contributions
Business waste collection,
Capital expenditure. mowers
Business Electricity
Electrity testing
Water Rates
Skips for Grass
Fuel for machinery. (I pay £30 a fortnight Just to keep ¾ acre mowed! using a machine that cost £5k!).

This is precisely what we are
going to do next year, but in France not UK. The main competition is going to be a large group owned site and a CCP owned aire. Having reviewed the accounts the list above is the tip of the iceberg, and despite making good money on the face of it the running costs are extraordinary.

For a very long time I had the same views on the cost for sites anywhere, but especially in the UK, it just seemed ridiculous to pay £30-£40 just to park. It is only when you see the challenges in making a living out of it that you begin to appreciate why the costs have to be what they are.

All campsite owners face the same challenges, it seems the only way to make a business viable is expansion, diversification, accommodation and extending the season. All of the above are more of a challenge in the UK due to less and more expensive land, more restricted development exacerbated by high levels of nimbyism and a general negative perception of any ‘traveller’, and of course our weather making the season very short.

Going through this process of discovery of what’s on the other side of reception has been a very sobering experience. Please wish us luck with our new venture, we are already acutely aware of the need to control prices to attract visitors, as I assure you every UK campsite owner will also be.

 

[MichaelT]

Why not if it brings cash into the area. Lots of people over here complain about losing local facilities because of lack of customers. The reason that the French Aires are free is to encourage people to visit their villages and towns and spend money in the local businesses. We always make sure to spend some money when we are there.

But most French villages are deserted, nothing open and no one about.

 

[MichaelT]

Lets all open a site then, this time next year Rodney...

Land purchase, mortgage
Business rates
Public Liability Insurance
Staff, 2 on call, means at least 4 staff
Employers Insurance
Wages
Employers NI Contributions
Business waste collection,
Capital expenditure. mowers
Business Electricity
Electrity testing
Water Rates
Skips for Grass
Fuel for machinery. (I pay £30 a fortnight Just to keep ¾ acre mowed! using a machine that cost £5k!).

Jim I think most people on here think thats all free as well as ignoring over 10% inflation. Plus as a business they have other overheads to manage and pay all of the above which takes time and effort but not by the people on site but the support network at HO.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

I find the rich and ‘posh’ people unbearable in the main

Have seen some rich arsholes in my time but have also seen plenty of not so rich arsholes, I tend not to categorise people by their financial status

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[eddie]

Lets all open a site then, this time next year Rodney...

Land purchase, mortgage
Business rates
Public Liability Insurance
Staff, 2 on call, means at least 4 staff
Employers Insurance
Wages
Employers NI Contributions
Business waste collection,
Capital expenditure. mowers
Business Electricity
Electrity testing
Water Rates
Skips for Grass
Fuel for machinery. (I pay £30 a fortnight Just to keep ¾ acre mowed! using a machine that cost £5k!).

I’d retire Jim if I were you

 

[Pausim]

We are currently on a CS costing £10 per night. Today we move on to a CL with fully serviced pitches costing £26 per night. We chose not to use a more costly site with toilets and showers. This is an optional leisure activity and we all have choice. If we don’t like what a site charges we don’t have to go there.

 

[eddie]

This is precisely what we are
going to do next year, but in France not UK. The main competition is going to be a large group owned site and a CCP owned aire. Having reviewed the accounts the list above is the tip of the iceberg, and despite making good money on the face of it the running costs are extraordinary.

For a very long time I had the same views on the cost for sites anywhere, but especially in the UK, it just seemed ridiculous to pay £30-£40 just to park. It is only when you see the challenges in making a living out of it that you begin to appreciate why the costs have to be what they are.

All campsite owners face the same challenges, it seems the only way to make a business viable is expansion, diversification, accommodation and extending the season. All of the above are more of a challenge in the UK due to less and more expensive land, more restricted development exacerbated by high levels of nimbyism and a general negative perception of any ‘traveller’, and of course our weather making the season very short.

Going through this process of discovery of what’s on the other side of reception has been a very sobering experience. Please wish us luck with our new venture, we are already acutely aware of the need to control prices to attract visitors, as I assure you every UK campsite owner will also be.

But reading the posts on here camping is free in France!

I got planning permission in 2000 to build a site, we opened it in 2005, and sold it in 2022

Would I do it again? Probably but I was 39 when applied for planning and now value time more than money, however, I believe that it’s a lifestyle rather than a cash cow, but what some people think their entitlement is because they’ve paid twenty quid for a night is astonishing

We ran it with a heavy hand, rather than a light touch, meaning if people were stupid, we’d happily give them their twenty quid back and tell tell to ‘do one’ now!

That normally was inconvenient for them, but put things back in perspective, we’d explain that we didn’t need their twenty quid, nor would we be affected one iota when they left, but, by tea time he would be parked in a lay-by explaining yet again to his wife why they’d been thrown off the site for being a twat!

Normally meant people would stop being a twat and behave, as normally bad behaviour upsets the other ‘decent’ guests

 

[seasideBill]

It was a dump when we went there two years ago, facilities not well maintained but functional. Security is very poor. BUT as you wrote, it’s where you want to be

I don’t understand the bad reviews for this site. First & foremost it’s located in a city which is a tourist hotspot and world heritage site - like sites in London or York, you’re always going to pay a premium for that. Pleasant, level canal side walk into city centre (or cycle/bus if you prefer), two good pubs and an artisan bakery within walking distance. The location on a canal basin is fine. Ok, the toilet and shower facilities won’t win any prizes, but that’s not the reason most folks visit.

 

[Janine]

Just a quick trawl through businesses for sale came up with this one.

I can think of easier ways to make £50k a year without outlaying over a million quid and without so much hassle!

Buy a confidential park opportunity in cornwall

Holiday park licensed for statics and tourers. Owners accommodation. Food and beverage operation. Various utility buildings. Great scope to develop…

uk.businessesforsale.com

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[Janine]

I don’t understand the bad reviews for this site. First & foremost it’s located in a city which is a tourist hotspot and world heritage site - like sites in London or York, you’re always going to pay a premium for that. Pleasant, level canal side walk into city centre (or cycle/bus if you prefer), two good pubs and an artisan bakery within walking distance. The location on a canal basin is fine. Ok, the toilet and shower facilities won’t win any prizes, but that’s not the reason most folks visit.

That is exactly my take on this. I read all the bad reviews but most were centred on the facilities which I never use anyway

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

You get whining people everywhere, my sister owns a tea rooms and quite often she has people come in and sit down then ask for a cup of hot water, they then moan when at the end she has put a charge on the bill for it!!
My sister then has to explain the concept of running a business to them ie: cost of staff, premises and electric for heating up the water plus washing up her cup.

Some people have not got a Scooby Doo about running a business

 

[Emmit]

I concur with both Jim and eddievanbitz but, and it's an ENORMOUS but.

These are 'Clubs' with huge capital Reserves who are hiding behind articles of Memorandum
that make it impossible for the 'Ordinary' bloke, regardless of his or her talent to do anything
meaningful about the running of the Club?

 

[dawsey]

But reading the posts on here camping is free in France!

I got planning permission in 2000 to build a site, we opened it in 2005, and sold it in 2022

Would I do it again? Probably but I was 39 when applied for planning and now value time more than money, however, I believe that it’s a lifestyle rather than a cash cow, but what some people think their entitlement is because they’ve paid twenty quid for a night is astonishing

We ran it with a heavy hand, rather than a light touch, meaning if people were stupid, we’d happily give them their twenty quid back and tell tell to ‘do one’ now!

That normally was inconvenient for them, but put things back in perspective, we’d explain that we didn’t need their twenty quid, nor would we be affected one iota when they left, but, by tea time he would be parked in a lay-by explaining yet again to his wife why they’d been thrown off the site for being a twat!

Normally meant people would stop being a twat and behave, as normally bad behaviour upsets the other ‘decent’ guests

Interesting. Yes that’s one way to do it. I’d be fascinated to understand where your red lines were.

‘Camping’ ie staying on a campsite is never free in France. Overnight (or over a couple of nights) parking (on the local communes aire) very commonly is. The main difference is that there’s no concept of a free local community aire dedicated to transient, passing motorhomers (in hope of a bit of trade) in the UK. Some of the posts above explain why that is the case quite well….

 

[seasideBill]

But reading the posts on here camping is free in France!

I got planning permission in 2000 to build a site, we opened it in 2005, and sold it in 2022

Would I do it again? Probably but I was 39 when applied for planning and now value time more than money, however, I believe that it’s a lifestyle rather than a cash cow, but what some people think their entitlement is because they’ve paid twenty quid for a night is astonishing

We ran it with a heavy hand, rather than a light touch, meaning if people were stupid, we’d happily give them their twenty quid back and tell tell to ‘do one’ now!

That normally was inconvenient for them, but put things back in perspective, we’d explain that we didn’t need their twenty quid, nor would we be affected one iota when they left, but, by tea time he would be parked in a lay-by explaining yet again to his wife why they’d been thrown off the site for being a twat!

Normally meant people would stop being a twat and behave, as normally bad behaviour upsets the other ‘decent’ guests

I like that approach, on the occasions where I’ve had to put up with twats, the site staff are invariably reluctant to deal with it. I think if somebody is having a party at 2am or leaves their dog outside to bark all day/night they should be told to ‘do one’.

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[SpeedyDux]

CAMC are going to price themselves out of the market . A standard room at Premier Inn chesterfield will save you £10 a night over the CAMC pice ! View attachment 752462

My problem with Premier Inns is they remind me of overnight stays in cheap hotels (our MD was a scrooge) when I was still working. I prefer my personal mobile accommodation even if I have to make my own breakfast.

It was a dump when we went there two years ago, facilities not well maintained but functional. Security is very poor. BUT as you wrote, it’s where you want to be

A bit too close to Bath's Carrsview Traveller Site not to have good security.

Much easier to book and use the tunnel or ferry rather than it is for flying.

Flights get cancelled at short notice, Airport parking is very expensive, the food on aircraft is terrible, seats are too cramped, luggage restrictions are annoying, you can be stuck in long queues in the terminals, you get searched and your personal belongings X-rayed, there are long waits for your luggage to appear on the carousels at your destination. It's become awful - a ferry crossing is generally a more pleasant experience than flying. Le Shuttle even better.

 

[L' Hobo]

This is precisely what we are
going to do next year, but in France not UK. The main competition is going to be a large group owned site and a CCP owned aire. Having reviewed the accounts the list above is the tip of the iceberg, and despite making good money on the face of it the running costs are extraordinary.

For a very long time I had the same views on the cost for sites anywhere, but especially in the UK, it just seemed ridiculous to pay £30-£40 just to park. It is only when you see the challenges in making a living out of it that you begin to appreciate why the costs have to be what they are.

All campsite owners face the same challenges, it seems the only way to make a business viable is expansion, diversification, accommodation and extending the season. All of the above are more of a challenge in the UK due to less and more expensive land, more restricted development exacerbated by high levels of nimbyism and a general negative perception of any ‘traveller’, and of course our weather making the season very short.

Going through this process of discovery of what’s on the other side of reception has been a very sobering experience. Please wish us luck with our new venture, we are already acutely aware of the need to control prices to attract visitors, as I assure you every UK campsite owner will also be.

Just like the Coaching/Transport business, buying the vehicles is the easy part! The rest includes......

Finding: (Good staff, Drivers, Office & Mechanical etc)

Premises: (with planning & waste permission, pit, Covered Garage & space)

Regulation: (H&S, Manager's CPC & Operators Licence,
Driver's CPC & Licence, MOT's and 6 weekly Safety Inspections, similar to an MOT.
Tacho & Driving Hours regulation,
Holiday & Health regulation, etc)

Money: To pay, Staff Wages, Garage Gas, Electricity, Water, Waste, Tools, Tyres, Hire Purchase Loans on £150,000+ vehicles.

The lists go on but are usually overlooked because IF your doing it right, it should look easy, if it looks hard, your, probably, doing it wrong!

I'm happy that I'm retired!

 

[L' Hobo]

Interesting. Yes that’s one way to do it. I’d be fascinated to understand where your red lines were.

‘Camping’ ie staying on a campsite is never free in France. Overnight (or over a couple of nights) parking (on the local communes aire) very commonly is. The main difference is that there’s no concept of a free local community aire dedicated to transient, passing motorhomers (in hope of a bit of trade) in the UK. Some of the posts above explain why that is the case quite well….

Many years ago, when I was driving a truck in Spain for the first time, I could not understand why there were empty motorways running, in many cases, parallel with perfectly good 'A' roads?
When I asked, I was told that they were built with EU money and if the Spanish government didn't use it within a certain time frame, their allowance would be cut by that amount the following year.
(They were empty because the locals refused to pay tolls when not needed, they said?)

Was it this same EU money that allowed all these 'Aires' to be built all over Europe I wonder?

 

[Janine]

A bit too close to Bath's Carrsview Traveller Site not to have good security.

I was really looking forward to going………

 

[seasideBill]

I was really looking forward to going………

Take a look at the reviews to see how many have been robbed by travellers - 0 probably?

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[BOWHOUSE52]

It keeps the riff raff out so a win for me

 

[BOWHOUSE52]

It keeps the riff raff out so a win for me

Excuse me!! I am an82 year old pensioner I cannot afford these prices I keep my membership up so that I can use c/L's And go to France&Spain to able to get value for my mony So please do not suggest that people like my self are riff raff We all can't afford 90/100 thousand Vans worked hard all my life to be able to do this

 

[busby]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but couldn’t see it. This is specific to CMC.

Considering we are joining a club for what should be reduced prices (and high standard facilities) , is there any justification to charging £55 for one night (6m campervan) on one of their campsites (Chatsworth House) . Just on my way back from Spain and France and I have decided I won’t be paying anything like these prices in the UK. Withdrawing my club membership as soon as it up fo renewal.

Did that last year,,waste of money.BUSBY

 

[busby]

I would not pay more than £40 a night.
Usually £15-£22 for CL sites. For us it’s about location, visit a place stay near then move on.
Our first trip to France in a few weeks so my view might change.

You can get a hotel in France for £40..BUSBY.

 

[Nirvanauk]

You can get a hotel in France for £40..BUSBY.

Yes and you have to walk down the corridor to the toilet.

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