One of these crazy new mask regulations

This is worth trying if you can't get away with the "normal" flat surgical masks. The missus tried it yesterday and reckoned it was a big improvement, mask wasn't slipping about and you don't feel as "stifled"
 
jockaneezer said:
This is worth trying if you can't get away with the "normal" flat surgical masks. The missus tried it yesterday and reckoned it was a big improvement, mask wasn't slipping about and you don't feel as "stifled"
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Interesting and worth a try!
John
 
Mattyjwr said:
May not be pure enlightenment but enough to show that naming a disease after a country etc is not considered appropriate.

Moreover, the World Health Organization condemns the practice of naming diseases for places. The agency has said it particularly regrets allowing the term MERS to enter into circulation. In its official guidelines for naming novel diseases, WHO says, “cities, countries, regions, [or] continents” should be avoided in disease names because they unfairly stigmatize those places. It lists Lyme disease, MERS, and the Spanish flu as examples of inappropriate nomenclature.

And with Trump using the term "Chinese flu" there are loads of reports on the web as to why it is considered racist.
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Maybe not considered appropriate by who in our PC culture , anti Trump bubble. Rewriting history again ?
 
introducing mandatory face coverings 4 months in to a pandemic is like turning uo to a baby shower wearing a condom.

And as there is zero social distancing happening in bars and pubs it seems utterly pointless to me to be honest.

I genuinely think if the government told people they had to crawl about on hands and knees from next week because covid only survived from 2 foot up that many would just follow unquestioning


I'm more and more convinced this is moving steadily in the forced vaccine direction everyday

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Northernraider said:
introducing mandatory face coverings 4 months in to a pandemic is like turning uo to a baby shower wearing a condom.
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Actually that’s not correct, although superficially it is a funny statement.

Once we had widespread community transmission with a high R0 by late Feb/early March, suppression of the virus by extreme social distancing and confinement largely to family units was the only strategy that would have an impact. It worked remarkably well, and general mask wearing would have added almost no benefit to the strategy at that time.

Once we had suppressed the virus to very low levels with an R0 below maintenance levels, then a nuanced easing of lockdown backed up by other containment measures including mask wearing and test/trace/isolate becomes a viable strategy.

So unless you are a nation with a pre-existing culture of widespread mask wearing (when it can be part of your initial strategy) we deployed mask use at roughly the right time. And the evidence on mask wearing for this virus vs risks of behavioural changes was pretty flimsy until recently.

We are advised by some of the best scientific and medical advice in the world. These are difficult and finely balanced decisions. But to be fair to them, the govt are pursuing a fairly routine infectious disease strategy - as are pretty much all other governments. Timings are always subject to debate in hindsight - but remember no government and no minister is setting out with any intention other than to prevent the greatest possible harm to the greatest number of people with the best information and evidence available to them at the time.

Having been on the receiving end of their decisions and guidance in the NHS for almost 6 months now, they have my respect. Not everything is right, but it is as right as it could have been at the time decisions were taken. All nations will be better prepared for the second and successive waves - although looking at much of Europe just now, you have to wonder if large parts of the general population are learning as quickly as governments are...
 
PeteH said:
Whilst, We are warned to be sceptical about "reports" and "fake" news. At the very start of the latest pandemic to come out of China (at least the third, and worst, in the last decade) there where disturbing reports of Chinese Doctors and Scientists being "gagged" and even imprisoned. There was also an unverified report which disturbingly made a quite valid case for the virus source having been a Chinese government laboratory near to Wuhan. I thought I had copied and filed it, but cannot find it at present.

As for our current leaders, would the so called opposition have done better?. I seriously doubt anyone could have. But it`s comforting to criticise with the benefit of hindsight.
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If you look back at the start of the coronovirus thread I actually criticised before the big increase in cases after seeing what was going on in Italy and there was an interesting article on radio 4 this evening about just that.
In the very early stages China did try to hide it the ophthalmologist who first reported it was disciplined but later that was retracted unfortunately after he died. I'm not saying that China is a fantastic place I certainly wouldn't like to live there and they have terrible human rights violations but haven't you noticed recently how the states are reacting to violations that have been going on for years of course it's got nothing to do with trying to divert attention!

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The PRC, is an organised Dictatorship. in all but name. Not quite in the mould of North Korea. But by no means far behind in it`s leadership`s desire to control all aspects of life. Their current treatment of the Urghur peoples is just the latest in an ongoing saga of "re-education" of the style reminiscence of the Book 1984. "Re writing history", which is also a feature of said book, has been done by "victors" after every event in historical past. The worlds "democracies" even in the loosest sense are the aparent Targets of this expansionist regime. China is IMV a rogue nation. Certainly not to be trusted, with access to the UK`s telecommunication network for starters. They have already practised the remote control of systems on a roll out of a Traffic control system in India, and when called out on it blamed it on defective microchips and software. Huwai, are pretty certainly controlled by the Chinese government it is the only way they could survive in the climate that exists.
 
jockaneezer said:
This is worth trying if you can't get away with the "normal" flat surgical masks. The missus tried it yesterday and reckoned it was a big improvement, mask wasn't slipping about and you don't feel as "stifled"
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I find it fits better if you put a twist in the elastic straps too, it helps to stop the mask riding up in to my eyes!. I might try that too.

But those cheapo masks are really only window dressing anyway IMV. Marginally? better than nothing and it makes people feel better?. I wear them, but I am aware that they are for others benefit.
 
PeteH said:
I find it fits better if you put a twist in the elastic straps too, it helps to stop the mask riding up in to my eyes!. I might try that too.

But those cheapo masks are really only window dressing anyway IMV. Marginally? better than nothing and it makes people feel better?. I wear them, but I am aware that they are for others benefit.
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Don't most people know that they are for the benefit of others?
 
Mattyjwr said:
Don't most people know that they are for the benefit of others?
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Yes. But even that is questionable. Most don`t get the fit anywhere near right enough to be any more effective than sneezing into your sleeve!. Like I said window dressing. Staying away from other people altogether is probably the only way to stop cross infection. I`m not kidding myself that others wearing one are going to help me. As Meldrew Said "I dont believe it". :giggle:

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I've kept out of this for well over a week, but sad to see that some people are still coming out with the same false statements and arguments as to why they shouldn't wear masks.

It's all a bit reminiscent of the complaints about how speed cameras were unfair because it was impossible to ensure that you were driving within the speed limit without severely compromising road safety.

The FACE COVERINGS (not masks) that we are being urged to wear are not meant to require an airtight seal around your face, nor does anyone claim that they will prevent 100% or even 95% transmission of coronavirii BUT there is strong and consistent scientific evidence that they do prevent a substantial amount of direct viral spread as well as reducing the viral load that might be acquired by a wearer exposed to infection.

I have posted about some of the more recent experiments and studies and don't intend to repeat myself again, other than to say again that in experiments deliberately exposing animals to Covid-19 whilst some were "shielded" from airborne transmission using the type of cotton materials recommended for face coverings, the number of creatures infected amongst the protected batches was lower than amongst unprotected control batches, and in every single case the "protected" animals that became infected suffered less serious illness than even the least sick of the unprotected animals.

Why are people still banging on about face coverings being useless unless they are medical grade filters with airtight seals? They aren't intended to stop all viral transmission but it is increasingly apparent that they result in a worthwhile reduction, or as one study said, they represent the greatest opportunity to control this virus effectively when used in conjunction with other recommended social distancing measures and regular cleansing of hands.

Surely it's a no brainer that even a single figure reduction in transmission of infections, severity of illness or deaths is worth it for everyone's benefit? And the results of experiments and observations so far indicate that the benefits are much higher than that, up to almost 50% in some studies.
 
Deneb said:
I've kept out of this for well over a week, but sad to see that some people are still coming out with the same false statements and arguments as to why they shouldn't wear masks.

It's all a bit reminiscent of the complaints about how speed cameras were unfair because it was impossible to ensure that you were driving within the speed limit without severely compromising road safety.

The FACE COVERINGS (not masks) that we are being urged to wear are not meant to require an airtight seal around your face, nor does anyone claim that they will prevent 100% or even 95% transmission of coronavirii BUT there is strong and consistent scientific evidence that they do prevent a substantial amount of direct viral spread as well as reducing the viral load that might be acquired by a wearer exposed to infection.

I have posted about some of the more recent experiments and studies and don't intend to repeat myself again, other than to say again that in experiments deliberately exposing animals to Covid-19 whilst some were "shielded" from airborne transmission using the type of cotton materials recommended for face coverings, the number of creatures infected amongst the protected batches was lower than amongst unprotected control batches, and in every single case the "protected" animals that became infected suffered less serious illness than even the least sick of the unprotected animals.

Why are people still banging on about face coverings being useless unless they are medical grade filters with airtight seals? They aren't intended to stop all viral transmission but it is increasingly apparent that they result in a worthwhile reduction, or as one study said, they represent the greatest opportunity to control this virus effectively when used in conjunction with other recommended social distancing measures and regular cleansing of hands.

Surely it's a no brainer that even a single figure reduction in transmission of infections, severity of illness or deaths is worth it for everyone's benefit? And the results of experiments and observations so far indicate that the benefits are much higher than that, up to almost 50% in some studies.
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But it is also shown that wearing masks makes them feel as if SD doesn't matter... so they don't

....and Covid was in decline before face masks were made compulsory - explain why they are needed now
 
I wear them, BUT I still reckon they are a complete waste of time, however they are a bit like a Placebo, people feel better!. And someone somewhere is making money!.
 
Barclaybasher said:
But it is also shown that wearing masks makes them feel as if SD doesn't matter... so they don't

....and Covid was in decline before face masks were made compulsory - explain why they are needed now
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Covid isn't in decline, although the number of infections has been due to quite severe lockdowns.

The virus itself hadn't gone away and it isn't going to anytime soon. It just waits for people to drop their guard, and many countries that have been successful in reducing infections through lockdowns are now trying to open up their economies, with increased risk of increases in the infection rate as they do so.

As the WHO said today, there is no evidence that the virus is seasonal, quite the opposite and reductions in infections have been achieved only by rigorous control measures. Populations are however starting to think it has gone away and there have been substantial increases in several countries that appeared to have been fairly successful in controlling the infection rates.

So if you want to continue opening up and allowing more freedom, wearing face coverings is an integral part of the control measures that just might allow that to succeed.

Things appear to be moving in the wrong direction again in much of Europe and the Far East though. And if you think Covid is in decline, it never has been globally since the start and continues to increase daily. As the WHO also recently stated, there are no individual regions of infection, or waves, just a single infection constantly circulating around the globe.
 
PeteH said:
I wear them, BUT I still reckon they are a complete waste of time, however they are a bit like a Placebo, people feel better!. And someone somewhere is making money!.
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PeteH you keep using phrases like “I reckon” and “I think” and then post nonsense about face coverings as if it were fact.

Please can you explain for the benefit of others what your level of expertise is, so we can judge what level of importance and reliance to place on your pronouncements on here?

Are you a professional expert is some way? Are you a clinician or other NHS professional? Are you a researcher? Are you an epidemiologist? Or a materials scientist? Are you a mask manufacturer? Are you involved in the Covid response in any capacity whatsoever?

Or are you just an internet commenter with no particular insight or understanding over other inumerable commenters with their “reckonings”?

Because from someone who is professionally and closely involved in these issues (but by no means a world-class expert) I can tell you that your reckonings and beliefs are 100% at variance with the peer-reviewed evidence and current advice from independent scientific expert bodies all around the world.

The wearing of face coverings, even simple cloth ones significantly reduces the transmission of droplet borne infections.

Once again, I ask you to stop spreading unsubstantiated nonsense. You and others are undermining public confidence in evidence-based official guidance. You are helping to undermine the public health response to the worst health crisis this country has faced in decades. Collectively, that has a dangerous impact.

Also, you said: “But it is also shown that wearing masks makes them feel as if SD doesn't matter... so they don't”. Can you substantiate that with peer-reviewed evidence? It was a concern initially, but I haven’t seen any robust evidence published on this., and I’ve looked for it. Or is it just another of your “reckonings” without substance?

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Deneb said:
I've kept out of this for well over a week, but sad to see that some people are still coming out with the same false statements and arguments as to why they shouldn't wear masks.

It's all a bit reminiscent of the complaints about how speed cameras were unfair because it was impossible to ensure that you were driving within the speed limit without severely compromising road safety.

The FACE COVERINGS (not masks) that we are being urged to wear are not meant to require an airtight seal around your face, nor does anyone claim that they will prevent 100% or even 95% transmission of coronavirii BUT there is strong and consistent scientific evidence that they do prevent a substantial amount of direct viral spread as well as reducing the viral load that might be acquired by a wearer exposed to infection.

I have posted about some of the more recent experiments and studies and don't intend to repeat myself again, other than to say again that in experiments deliberately exposing animals to Covid-19 whilst some were "shielded" from airborne transmission using the type of cotton materials recommended for face coverings, the number of creatures infected amongst the protected batches was lower than amongst unprotected control batches, and in every single case the "protected" animals that became infected suffered less serious illness than even the least sick of the unprotected animals.

Why are people still banging on about face coverings being useless unless they are medical grade filters with airtight seals? They aren't intended to stop all viral transmission but it is increasingly apparent that they result in a worthwhile reduction, or as one study said, they represent the greatest opportunity to control this virus effectively when used in conjunction with other recommended social distancing measures and regular cleansing of hands.

Surely it's a no brainer that even a single figure reduction in transmission of infections, severity of illness or deaths is worth it for everyone's benefit? And the results of experiments and observations so far indicate that the benefits are much higher than that, up to almost 50% in some studies.
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Well said.

If simple face coverings weren’t effective at preventing transmission of infections, surgical teams wouldn’t have been wearing them for the past 100+ years in operating theatres. They’re not doing it for their protection, but the vulnerable patient. I wonder if the mask deniers would be happy for their surgeon to be unmasked, and coughing over them in theatre? Or do they really believe the nonsense that those masks are a placebo?

Those disposable masks theatre teams wear are really no more sophisticated or close-fitting than simple cloth face coverings the public are being asked to wear to fulfil the same function to reduce Covid spread.

The benefits in some recent Covid studies where both people wear masks, is in excess of 90% reduction in droplet spread. As you say, when added to social distancing, hand hygiene and other isolation measures, together they are a very effective risk reduction strategy.
 
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It all makes me laugh, :rofl: But if anyone is convinced, be my guest. Just don`t assume I am ever going to agree that walking around with what is effectively a sheet of Kitchen Towel paper over the mouth and nose is having much if any effect, keeping distance is likely far more effective. But it look as if someone is doing something. And saves upsetting the PRC, over their complete absence of acceptance of any responsibility for the latest virus they have inflicted on this planet. And as I said earlier , someone somewhere is making some money, probably in China?.
 
Barclaybasher said:
But it is also shown that wearing masks makes them feel as if SD doesn't matter... so they don't

....and Covid was in decline before face masks were made compulsory - explain why they are needed now
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Covid is not in decline at the moment in fact the daily average of new infections has been rising steadily since early July and has increased by approx 70%.

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Glas Robin said:
Well said.

If simple face coverings weren’t effective at preventing transmission of infections, surgical teams wouldn’t have been wearing them for the past 100+ years in operating theatres. They’re not doing it for their protection, but the vulnerable patient. I wonder if the mask deniers would be happy for their surgeon to be unmasked, and coughing over them in theatre? Or do they really believe the nonsense that those masks are a placebo?

Those disposable masks theatre teams wear are really no more sophisticated or close-fitting than simple cloth face coverings the public are being asked to wear to fulfil the same function to reduce Covid spread.

The benefits in some recent Covid studies where both people wear masks, is in excess of 90% reduction in droplet spread. As you say, when added to social distancing, hand hygiene and other isolation measures, together they are a very effective risk reduction strategy.
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Totally agree.
Every action we take that reduces the risk by even the smallest amount is worth doing.
 
PeteH said:
It all makes me laugh, :rofl: But if anyone is convinced, be my guest. Just don`t assume I am ever going to agree that walking around with what is effectively a sheet of Kitchen Towel paper over the mouth and nose is having much if any effect, keeping distance is likely far more effective. But it look as if someone is doing something. And saves upsetting the PRC, over their complete absence of acceptance of any responsibility for the latest virus they have inflicted on this planet. And as I said earlier , someone somewhere is making some money, probably in China?.
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So you’re not an expert in any sense; you’re just shooting the breeze on the internet? And laughing at serious things you know nothing about. 🙄🙄🙄

Thanks for at least clearing that up. We can safely ignore your mutterings on the subject.
 
Glas Robin said:
So you’re not an expert in any sense; you’re just shooting the breeze on the internet? And laughing at serious things you know nothing about. 🙄🙄🙄

Thanks for at least clearing that up. We can safely ignore your mutterings on the subject.
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Get used to it. For some, personal opinions trump expertise.
 
Glas Robin said:
So you’re not an expert in any sense; you’re just shooting the breeze on the internet? And laughing at serious things you know nothing about. 🙄🙄🙄

Thanks for at least clearing that up. We can safely ignore your mutterings on the subject.
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
Mattyjwr said:
Get used to it. For some, personal opinions trump expertise.
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Yes, we are fighting two pandemics. We’re doing ok against the virus, but losing the war on crass stupidity. 😎

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