One of these crazy new mask regulations

[tonyidle]

trump expertise

That's an oxymoron

 

[MattR]

Glas Robin just remember that the one thing members of this forum have in common is an interest in motorhomes and campervans. There will be many disagreements and despite all of the expert evidence presented, some opinions will not change. The ignore button is useful.

 

[Deneb]

Get used to it. For some, personal opinions trump expertise.

In other words, you can't teach stupid

 

[MattR]

That's an oxymoron

Don't you mean ox and moron?

 

[The Wino]

That's an oxymoron

I think given his spouting this week theres a new term a hydroxymoron !

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[The Wino]

introducing mandatory face coverings 4 months in to a pandemic is like turning uo to a baby shower wearing a condom.

And as there is zero social distancing happening in bars and pubs it seems utterly pointless to me to be honest.

I genuinely think if the government told people they had to crawl about on hands and knees from next week because covid only survived from 2 foot up that many would just follow unquestioning


I'm more and more convinced this is moving steadily in the forced vaccine direction everyday

Is there a problem with vaccination?

 

[Jim]

But it is also shown that wearing masks makes them feel as if SD doesn't matter

Has it? Before it was compulsory in stores, I noted that those who chose to wear masks were those who were the most careful

 

[Deneb]

It all makes me laugh, But if anyone is convinced, be my guest. Just don`t assume I am ever going to agree that walking around with what is effectively a sheet of Kitchen Towel paper over the mouth and nose is having much if any effect, keeping distance is likely far more effective.

Funny you should say that, as three sheets of kitchen towel appeared to be 20% more effective than a standard grade paper medical mask in one study.

"A mask made from three paper towels folded into six layers scored higher on Dr Okuda's test, apparently filtering out 80 percent of particles. Dr Okuda says this suggests paper towels could be especially good at blocking out much smaller particles".

 

[MattR]

Deneb I get confused with some attempts to discuss topics ... Some people are clearly smart in some area but they'll dismiss information provided by others who have expertise in other areas. You can provide all of the peer-reviewed, published evidence you like but in return you'll get conspiracy theories, "funny" memes and personal opinions stated as fact. Just don't hold your breath waiting for credible evidence to back up their statements and don't get frustrated that some refuse to consider changing their views.

 

[The Wino]

Has it? Before it was compulsory in stores, I noted that those who chose to wear masks were those who were the most careful

I would agree the ones wearing masks cleaning the trolley etc were generally the most careful those who seemed to not believe that anything had changed were the ones getting too close..

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[MattR]

I think given his spouting this week theres a new term a hydroxymoron !

Considering how he has been supporting the peculiar Dr Immanuel, may be it should be dihydroxymoron?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/07/28/stella-immanuel-hydroxychloroquine-video-trump-americas-frontline-doctors/

 

[Deneb]

Deneb I get confused with some attempts... Some people are clearly smart in some topics but they'll dismiss information provided by others who have expertise in other areas. You can provide all of the peer-reviewed, published evidence you like but in return you'll get conspiracy theories, "funny" memes and personal opinions stated as fact. Just don't hold your breath waiting for credible evidence to back up their statements and don't get frustrated that some refuse to consider changing their views.

I know exactly what's going on. It's the same type of denial and misinformation that caused US authorities at the beginning of July to predict 140,000 deaths by mid-August. 2 weeks ago they amended that to 170,000 deaths, and now that 150,000 deaths was reached yesterday, the predictions have been upped to "several hundred thousands" by the autumn.

 

[The Wino]

Considering how he has been supporting the peculiar Dr Immanuel, may be it should be dihydroxymoron?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/07/28/stella-immanuel-hydroxychloroquine-video-trump-americas-frontline-doctors/

Wow I must lead a sheltered life some of those views about sex with demons in sleep causing diseases make Trump seem sensible. Next time someone quotes"doctors" just remember they are people the MMR stuff showed that there are nutters mixed in just like with any other group.

 

[Northernraider]

Is there a problem with vaccination?

There is something wrong with it being forced.

 

[tonyidle]

There is something wrong with it being forced.

It will not be forced by the Government. What normally forces such issues is insurance companies and / or entry conditions to foreign countries. Although IMO commonsense should be the real driver.

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[MattR]

It will not be forced by the Government. What normally forces such issues is insurance companies and / or entry conditions to foreign countries. Although IMO commonsense should be the real driver.

Unfortunately, it isn't that common

 

[The Wino]

It will not be forced by the Government. What normally forces such issues is insurance companies and / or entry conditions to foreign countries. Although IMO commonsense should be the real driver.

I agree but for instance with quarantine from Spain at the moment I could see if there were a vaccine it would make sense to allow straightforward entry for anyone vaccinated but a proper quarantine (like in NZ) for those not vaccinated. There will be people not vaccinated by choice and others where medical conditions make it not possible they will still need to be protected.

 

[The Wino]

Unfortunately, it isn't that common

That is one thing proven beyond doubt in the pandemic.

 

[tonyidle]

I agree but for instance with quarantine from Spain at the moment I could see if there were a vaccine it would make sense to allow straightforward entry for anyone vaccinated but a proper quarantine (like in NZ) for those not vaccinated. There will be people not vaccinated by choice and others where medical conditions make it not possible they will still need to be protected.

Exactly. It's such scenarios that will 'compel' those to get vaccinated who might otherwise not do so.

 

[The Wino]

Exactly. It's such scenarios that will 'compel' those to get vaccinated who might otherwise not do so.

I think I prefer persuade rather than compel!!. But as I said there will be some who due to allergy/immune system problems etc are unable to choose vaccination and may well be in high risk groups if they catch covid. They may only be able to return to a more normal life if nearly all the rest of us are vaccinated. It's really quite appropriate this is in the mask thread they are both going to protect the user and others. I'm hoping as I work part time in the NHS I can get an early vaccination.

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[tonyidle]

I think I prefer persuade rather than compel!!. But as I said there will be some who due to allergy/immune system problems etc are unable to choose vaccination and may well be in high risk groups if they catch covid. They may only be able to return to a more normal life if nearly all the rest of us are vaccinated. It's really quite appropriate this is in the mask thread they are both going to protect the user and others. I'm hoping as I work part time in the NHS I can get an early vaccination.

Hence the inverted commas around compel .

 

[Glas Robin]

I think I prefer persuade rather than compel!!. But as I said there will be some who due to allergy/immune system problems etc are unable to choose vaccination and may well be in high risk groups if they catch covid. They may only be able to return to a more normal life if nearly all the rest of us are vaccinated. It's really quite appropriate this is in the mask thread they are both going to protect the user and others. I'm hoping as I work part time in the NHS I can get an early vaccination.

There are really only two broad ways we return to long term normality when a novel and fatal virus comes along:

1 We reach herd immunity naturally - and unfortunately this means that it’s a biological inevitability that many of those vulnerable to the disease will succumb to it. Think of the devastation the common cold (another coronavirus) did to South American native people before they developed the same immunity that the incomers had.

2 We reach herd immunity artificially via a vaccine, and avoid many vulnerable people succumbing, but sadly lose a proportion until the vaccine delivers immunity.

1) has been happening for as long as humans have existed. 2) has only been possible in the past 100 years or so.

In the meantime, suppression and containment are only strategies that buy us time to develop a vaccine (or treatments that keep the worst effects at bay). If the virus mutates frequently then, like flu, we will need an ongoing vaccination programme, which will also result in ongoing deaths.

We can never compel people to be vaccinated, but we will need somewhere between 70 and 90% to be persuaded to be vaccinated for effective herd immunity to protect those who can’t or won’t be vaccinated.

This is truly the age of science, despite the idiocy on frequent display. If you have kids/grandkids, now is the time to enthuse them about the wonders of science. One day their community, their nation, or the whole world may need their knowledge to save them.

 

[Glas Robin]

Glas Robin just remember that the one thing members of this forum have in common is an interest in motorhomes and campervans. There will be many disagreements and despite all of the expert evidence presented, some opinions will not change. The ignore button is useful.

You’re right and there is always more that unites than divides us in any aspect of life.

I’m happy to ignore stupid (and recognise expertise in other areas) most of the time - but when people repeat dangerous fallacies and prejudices, I feel compelled to provide the alternative evidence-based viewpoint. It is up to others to then decide what to do with that information.

I enjoyed reading Deneb on this thread - she clearly has expertise.

 

[The Wino]

There are really only two broad ways we return to long term normality when a novel and fatal virus comes along:

1 We reach herd immunity naturally - and unfortunately this means that it’s a biological inevitability that many of those vulnerable to the disease will succumb to it. Think of the devastation the common cold (another coronavirus) did to South American native people before they developed the same immunity that the incomers had.

2 We reach herd immunity artificially via a vaccine, and avoid many vulnerable people succumbing, but sadly lose a proportion until the vaccine delivers immunity.

1) has been happening for as long as humans have existed. 2) has only been possible in the past 100 years or so.

In the meantime, suppression and containment are only strategies that buy us time to develop a vaccine (or treatments that keep the worst effects at bay). If the virus mutates frequently then, like flu, we will need an ongoing vaccination programme, which will also result in ongoing deaths.

We can never compel people to be vaccinated, but we will need somewhere between 70 and 90% to be persuaded to be vaccinated for effective herd immunity to protect those who can’t or won’t be vaccinated.

This is truly the age of science, despite the idiocy on frequent display. If you have kids/grandkids, now is the time to enthuse them about the wonders of science. One day their community, their nation, or the whole world may need their knowledge to save them.

Son MSc microbiology daughter MEng Nuclear and materials. Already done it!

 

[John Barrett]

Son MSc microbiology daughter MEng Nuclear and materials. Already done it!

Then you are a proud father and I envy you in the nicest possible way...
John

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[Coolcats]

Is there a problem with vaccination?

No problem with a Vacation..........

 

[gus-lopez]

You and others are undermining public confidence in evidence-based official guidance.

the government did that long ago to the extent that any sensible person would not believe any of the utterings of the majority of them.

Funny you should say that, as three sheets of kitchen towel appeared to be 20% more effective than a standard grade paper medical mask in one study.

"A mask made from three paper towels folded into six layers scored higher on Dr Okuda's test, apparently filtering out 80 percent of particles. Dr Okuda says this suggests paper towels could be especially good at blocking out much smaller particles".

Yes but PeteH onlu allded to one sheet?

Although IMO commonsense should be the real driver.

that is decidely short in those elected & most of the population.

Unfortunately, it isn't that common

Very true.

 

[PeteH]

Not bad really, 6 pages of posts?. On a subject. Not quite the record but getting there. .
SO this afternoon, SWMBO`s car went for it`s very overdue major service. Because neither of us fancied sitting around the dealership for 2 to 3 hours. I followed her in the "toad". Now on the scale of 1 to 10. crossing the road in front of a car, can be high risk. I braked and missed him. But to be fair, he was wearing a Mask!. We decided to check out Sainsbury, which is near (ish), and with a Low footfall we duly masked up and donned our Gloves etc; and did some overdue topping up (we have been locked down since March 8th) of stuff Tesco cannot deliver. What a "performance" 2 metre marks Yes (tick) One way flow system? NO. People with masks (tick), pulled off the faces? (tick). Any way hopefully we have survived. Armed with some "goodies" went round the corner to sisters and had tea and Sticky buns on her lawn 2 M apart. Not too bad for what is the first non "full-on isolating" (ie taking the Motorhome to deserted spots, making our own meals/Drinks) outing since March! and first visit to a Supermarket since lockdown?. But still much to done besides relying on "face covering" as the answer and reducing social distance to 1metre. The great British public are getting "Blase" IMV. But then of course that was self evident with BAME protests. and Bournemouth beach, (other locations are available). Not to mention the discarded masks on the ground next to the rubbish bins. Cynical?. what ever would make you think that?.

 

[The Wino]

Not bad really, 6 pages of posts?. On a subject. Not quite the record but getting there. .
SO this afternoon, SWMBO`s car went for it`s very overdue major service. Because neither of us fancied sitting around the dealership for 2 to 3 hours. I followed her in the "toad". Now on the scale of 1 to 10. crossing the road in front of a car, can be high risk. I braked and missed him. But to be fair, he was wearing a Mask!. We decided to check out Sainsbury, which is near (ish), and with a Low footfall we duly masked up and donned our Gloves etc; and did some overdue topping up (we have been locked down since March 8th) of stuff Tesco cannot deliver. What a "performance" 2 metre marks Yes (tick) One way flow system? NO. People with masks (tick), pulled off the faces? (tick). Any way hopefully we have survived. Armed with some "goodies" went round the corner to sisters and had tea and Sticky buns on her lawn 2 M apart. Not too bad for what is the first non "full-on isolating" (ie taking the Motorhome to deserted spots, making our own meals/Drinks) outing since March! and first visit to a Supermarket since lockdown?. But still much to done besides relying on "face covering" as the answer and reducing social distance to 1metre. The great British public are getting "Blase" IMV. But then of course that was self evident with BAME protests. and Bournemouth beach, (other locations are available). Not to mention the discarded masks on the ground next to the rubbish bins. Cynical?. what ever would make you think that?.

Just a tip Sainsbury's have just introduced their 25%off 6 or more wine offer.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Just a tip Sainsbury's have just introduced their 25%off 6 or more wine offer.

Don't think I'll bother thanks - bought back over 100 bottles of red last trip a few weeks ago - aim to to the same again - just to get me through quarantine ....again

You have to see the up side to every situation...

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