More grief about motorhomes

[Northernraider]

Reckon it will soon be compulsory..BUSBY.

You lot are stuffed then ....I've seen your photos

 

[busby]

There was a piece on Radio 4 this afternoon about folks experience of UK holidays in this present situation. It seemed fairly balanced, both locals and visitors having their say. One thing that got mentioned more than once was the poor manners and aggressive behaviour from visitors, there was a consensus that these "types" would normally be in Benidorm or Magaluf this time of year ?

To be honest that's a bit of a generalisation,,Looking at the behaviour of Brits holidaying in UK I doubt they would get away with breaking Covid rules in Benidorm or Magaluf as they are doing at home.BUSBY.

 

[Blue Knight]

They stopped overnight parking on Hayling Island because the local campsite complained.

When are these thick campsite owners are going to understand that the motorhomes that are happy to pay for the car park are very unlikely to use their site.

A good point indeed Lenny.

We started our motorhome hobby in 2016 with site-only holidays. We then tried a few days of off-gridding with our second new van and shortly afterwards caught the bug and bought a third new van strictly for off-grid camping.

The campsite owners may worry that if cheap alternative facilities are provided then more people like me will move away from sites.

 

[Brains]

Your points are reiterated in the Oban Times today - an interesting article:

Councillor raises barrier idea for Ganavan - The Oban Times

'Ganavan is all over freeloading websites with campervans telling other people it's okay to come and park up for the night.'

www.obantimes.co.uk

Interesting.

I took a long look at the car park, toilets and surrounding area on Google earth.
The car park appears to be used by a lot of kayaks

Kayak users would also use the toilets, water if it was available, and also have problems with driving an overheight vehicle (a car with a Kayak on the top will be over 2m)

This is a prime example of a toilet that could, with very minor upgrade be able to add a dump station and a water tap, and then charge for entry and also charge for overnight parking.

Oban Council have two options;
Spend money on a height barrier to reduce their income (which due to a bus service and a local pumping station, someone will need to be paid to be open and close it every day).
Or
Don't spend much money by adding a tap and external loo and increase their income.

Unfortunately my guess is they will go for the short sighted expensive view

 

[Northernraider]

........and here's one more article from today Tam which calls for an aire style system in parts of Scotland to help with human waste management.

The only problem to the plan is that campsite owners (Pitlochry in this example) are insisting that an aire-style system would be highly derogatory to their businesses models.

........and so the argument goes around in circles again!

Dismay that human waste disposal is central to Perth and Kinross recovery plan

A PKC report on its economic strategy was put before councillors

www.google.com

Yep once again campsites sticking their oar in ...when will they get the message.

If the only way you can get customers is by force and no other option you're doing business wrong.

The people...( myself included) that would use these services won't use their campsite ill just go somewhere else.

No disposal point ill use a public toilet ...i won't book on to their site instead

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[Northernraider]

There was a piece on Radio 4 this afternoon about folks experience of UK holidays in this present situation. It seemed fairly balanced, both locals and visitors having their say. One thing that got mentioned more than once was the poor manners and aggressive behaviour from visitors, there was a consensus that these "types" would normally be in Benidorm or Magaluf this time of year ?

Yeah typical Britain out of site out of mind

So its okay to let our yobs and social scum ruin other countries but not our own .

Makes you proud to be British

I've said for years most of europe won't miss half our tourists as they treat the countries like shit.

Now they do it to Scotland instead

 

[busby]

Yeah typical Britain out of site out of mind

So its okay to let our yobs and social scum ruin other countries but not our own .

Makes you proud to be British

I've said for years most of europe won't miss half our tourists as they treat the countries like shit.

Now they do it to Scotland instead

They would not get away with it in Spain..BUSBY.

 

[Blue Knight]

Interesting.

I took a long look at the car park, toilets and surrounding area on Google earth.
The car park appears to be used by a lot of kayaks

Kayak users would also use the toilets, water if it was available, and also have problems with driving an overheight vehicle (a car with a Kayak on the top will be over 2m)

This is a prime example of a toilet that could, with very minor upgrade be able to add a dump station and a water tap, and then charge for entry and also charge for overnight parking.

Oban Council have two options;
Spend money on a height barrier to reduce their income (which due to a bus service and a local pumping station, someone will need to be paid to be open and close it every day).
Or
Don't spend much money by adding a tap and external loo and increase their income.

Unfortunately my guess is they will go for the short sighted expensive view

Yep, agreed on all points.

However, my feeling is that the many councils of Scotland will soon begin to impose stricter regimes for motorhomes and campers; it has already started if I'm truly honest.

I read the Scottish news publications almost every day, by inputting 'motorhomes' into the search engine, and almost every day there is a new 'ban/restriction/control/deter/disorder' article in response to the perceived problem of MoHo usage in Scotland

I reckon it's just a matter of a few months before motorhome legislation in Scotland changes to reflect the volume of MoHo's visiting the north.

 

[Northernraider]

They would not get away with it in Spain..BUSBY.

But they do thats my point

I've been on plenty package holidays where I've witnessed pissed up brits. Pissin, puking and even having sex in the street at night...

The lassies are often worse than the guys ...

 

[Northernraider]

Yep, agreed on all points.

However, my feeling is that the many councils of Scotland will soon begin to impose stricter regimes for motorhomes and campers; it has already started if I'm truly honest.

I read the Scottish news publications almost every day, by inputting 'motorhomes' into the search engine, and almost every day there is a new 'ban/restriction/control/deter/disorder' article in response to the perceived problem of MoHo usage in Scotland

I reckon it's just a matter of a few months before motorhome legislation in Scotland changes to reflect the volume of MoHo's visiting the north.

I think an organised rolling protest is in order .....a few hundred motorhomes with banners

Problem is no one in Britain does that they just write strong letters or they put up with it

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[Larrynwin]

Aires in France Stellaplaz in Germany and Camperstops in Spain ,,,many are far removed from car parks,, They don't seem to blighted with vandalism and are very seldom abused..Why if they work all over Europe are they frowned upon so much in UK.I use a combination of sites,Aires etc.Nothing set in stone.Why are people so critical of others life style when it doesn't affect themselves..This debate is very similar to Cyclist v motorist v Cyclist.Could only happen in UK. BUSBY.

I believed the thread was referring to U.K. sites but having used the aires, stellplatz etc I don’t disagree with you but they are already established and in countries that generally are less densely populated.
As far as vandalism is concerned there seems to be more respect for the environment in some countries on the continent with far less litter and offenders are probably dealt with whereas in U.K. it seems near anarchy is ok.
In the U.K. we also have a real problem with travellers that would no doubt cause a real problem with aires if they were to be provided.
If there were aires in the U.K. I would use them as well as sites depending on my requirement at the time.
I have posted in this thread quoting CLs and their low cost in answer to the posts that insist that sites cost £30 which is the exception not the norm.

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

We have all paid income tax etc which goes to Central Government who then fund local authorities..I pay council tax in Amber Valley so should not use a library in Derby according to your thinking or a hospital in Nottm..BUSBY.

You just don't get it do you? Hospitals, doctors, education are all life essentials. Motorhoming is a hobby, no more, no less. Should every council be compelled to provide facilities for every hobby? I look forward to the day that every town has a roller disco rink, or an indoor m/c trials arena, or lets be radical and say a campsite for the occasional tenter. All free of course or for a nominal fee which covers sod all of the cost involved in providing them.

 

[Northernraider]

Another rag reporting nonsense

This was actually 3 motorhomers who stopped to do shopping ....stayed 3 hours , not overnight. They are on a Facebook motorhome group

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/leek-lidl-travellers-car-park-4351484

 

[Spriddler]

You just don't get it do you? Hospitals, doctors, education are all life essentials. Motorhoming is a hobby, no more, no less. Should every council be compelled to provide facilities for every hobby? I look forward to the day that every town has a roller disco rink, or an indoor m/c trials arena, or lets be radical and say a campsite for the occasional tenter. All free of course or for a nominal fee which covers sod all of the cost involved in providing them.

For 20+ years I've stayed on numerous French Camping Municipal sites. Very inexpensive, in or very near the town shops and virtually all well maintained but never seen travellers using or trying to use them.

 

[Larrynwin]

For 20+ years I've stayed on numerous French Camping Municipal sites. Very inexpensive, in or very near the own shops and virtually all well maintained but never seen travellers using or trying to use them.

Probably because many of the travellers are in the U.K. where they can do as they please.

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[busby]

You just don't get it do you? Hospitals, doctors, education are all life essentials. Motorhoming is a hobby, no more, no less. Should every council be compelled to provide facilities for every hobby? I look forward to the day that every town has a roller disco rink, or an indoor m/c trials arena, or lets be radical and say a campsite for the occasional tenter. All free of course or for a nominal fee which covers sod all of the cost involved in providing them.

Don't think you get,it.,Did I mention free? I can never understand when decent facilities are free,,I think they are missing a trick when it is. We do get free buses in uk (pensioners anyway) did get free tv licence for over 75s,,could never understand how you could afford it at 74 but not at 75, free parking for blue badge holders,again why, and probably free other things we don't know about but tourism brings plenty of money into a town.Paid 7 pounds I think to park in Canterbury,,bus fare included into town but with drinks and a lovely meal we spent 70 quid.Thats 70 quid we would not have spent had we been on a site in the countryside...I don't mind you camping your way ie campsites and it should not bother you how I spend my 6 months a year ie sites and Aires etc..BUSBY.

 

[Barclaybasher]

For 20+ years I've stayed on numerous French Camping Municipal sites. Very inexpensive, in or very near the own shops and virtually all well maintained but never seen travellers using or trying to use them.

A couple of years ago I was looking for an aire on the way to Dieppe and by mistake turned into a municipal site. I went for a walk to see the aire just a few yards away. The site was almost empty. At first I was a bit miffed but when I looked at the aire, it was pretty full, mostly uneven gravel - and the same price as the site ! I had a quiet grassy site with toilets and showers (spotless)...... This year found a similar municipal site in France... cheap as chips

 

[kevenh]

Everyone to their own. I don't criticize how you camp please let me camp my way.If we all used campsites 100 percent they would be rammed and let's face it if they had a monopoly their fees would surge.BUSBY.

I didn’t write any criticisms
I provided some knowledge to fill gaps.
People do leave campsites to see the local area, spend money in pubs & restaurants, etc.
Although at the C&MC site in the New Forest we were visited by fresh pizza and fish‘n’chip mobile shops

 

[Langtoftlad]

It's only natural that business owners want to protect their business - they see motorhomers as a threat to their income.
What they don't have is the foresight to see that the market can bear different segments.
As we seen in this discussion, there's a split between those who want a full facility site [and are willing to pay] and those who want little more than a car park with water & black waste [and are willing to pay].
Seems to me that there is room for both - and if local authorities got their act together, everyone would benefit from increased demand.
But it would need a change in the law, that rules were enforced promptly & ruthlessly... so that "travellers" occupying an 'aire' were removed forceably within 24hrs and overstayers had their vehicles impounded.
Make your place welcome to visitors who p[l]ay by the rules and unwelcome to those who take the 'p'.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I see no point in comparing what happens in various European countries to what happens in the UK... it's comparing apples & oranges.
The UK is the UK with all its good/bad points... France is France with all its bad points...

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[busby]

I see no point in comparing what happens in various European countries to what happens in the UK... it's comparing apples & oranges.
The UK is the UK with all its good/bad points... France is France with all its bad points...

And what bad points are they,,BUSBY?

 

[Brains]

I see no point in comparing what happens in various European countries to what happens in the UK... it's comparing apples & oranges.
The UK is the UK with all its good/bad points... France is France with all its bad points...

Much of southern England has a lot more in common with northern France, Belgium, and the Netherlands than they do with Northern England.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Much of southern England has a lot more in common with northern France, Belgium, and the Netherlands than they do with Northern England.

That might be very true... but I rarely (if ever) read about Dutch or Belgium Aires... but perhaps they do exist, just not where Brits choose to stay.
Still relevant - everything about different countries is, err, different.
We have croissants but they're not the same as French ones.

 

[busby]

That might be very true... but I rarely (if ever) read about Dutch or Belgium Aires... but perhaps they do exist, just not where Brits choose to stay.
Still relevant - everything about different countries is, err, different.
We have croissants but they're not the same as French ones.

Stayed on plenty of excellent Belgium Aires when visiting WW1 sites.BUSBY.

 

[Brains]

That might be very true... but I rarely (if ever) read about Dutch or Belgium Aires... but perhaps they do exist, just not where Brits choose to stay.
Still relevant - everything about different countries is, err, different.
We have croissants but they're not the same as French ones.

Netherlands I believe has more camping spaces than any other country in Europe.
(The Dutch as we all see are regular campers, all over Europe)
As it is also the most densely populated country in Europe and the most developed they do not permit any wild or stealth camping anywhere, and if found you would be moved on pretty sharpish.
But they do have carparks where you can (pay) to park and therefore sleep overnight, and some have limited facilities.

I think Belgium has Aires, but they are probably labeled in Walloon or Flemish to keep out the tourists!

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[Twogirls]

It's only natural that business owners want to protect their business - they see motorhomers as a threat to their income.
What they don't have is the foresight to see that the market can bear different segments.
As we seen in this discussion, there's a split between those who want a full facility site [and are willing to pay] and those who want little more than a car park with water & black waste [and are willing to pay].
Seems to me that there is room for both - and if local authorities got their act together, everyone would benefit from increased demand.
But it would need a change in the law, that rules were enforced promptly & ruthlessly... so that "travellers" occupying an 'aire' were removed forceably within 24hrs and overstayers had their vehicles impounded.
Make your place welcome to visitors who p[l]ay by the rules and unwelcome to those who take the 'p'.

It's not solely the business owner (campsite owner) who would reasonably object to an aire being opened nearby, it's the local authority who benefit from the business rates paid by the campsite, the local businesses who benefit from the tourism brought to the area by the campsite, the local residents who are provided employment by the campsite and the many many other benefits that make a campsite an integral part of its local community and without such benefits being proven they would never have got planning consent in the first place or be granted licence to operate. On site shops sell produce from local suppliers. Local fish and chip and burger vans play their trade on site. Customers visit local attractions and places of interest, ask for recommendations of where to eat locally etc etc. I've worked on private campsites for the past 4 years, the wage bill on my current site runs at £30k per month in high season, many local people employed here, owner supports local charities by hosting events for their benefit etc etc etc. There are adult only sites, quiet sites, all singing and dancing sites, and campsites and holiday parks contribute £9.2bn per year to the economy in visitor expenditure alone. You don't have to use them, but without them many local communities would be the poorer.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Everything in Europe is perfect - makes me wonder why we're leaving the EU....

 

[Langtoftlad]

It's not solely the business owner (campsite owner) who would reasonably object to an aire being opened nearby, it's the local authority who benefit from the business rates paid by the campsite, the local businesses who benefit from the tourism brought to the area by the campsite, the local residents who are provided employment by the campsite and the many many other benefits that make a campsite an integral part of its local community and without such benefits being proven they would never have got planning consent in the first place or be granted licence to operate. On site shops sell produce from local suppliers. Local fish and chip and burger vans play their trade on site. Customers visit local attractions and places of interest, ask for recommendations of where to eat locally etc etc. I've worked on private campsites for the past 4 years, the wage bill on my current site runs at £30k per month in high season, many local people employed here, owner supports local charities by hosting events for their benefit etc etc etc. There are adult only sites, quiet sites, all singing and dancing sites, and campsites and holiday parks contribute £9.2bn per year to the economy in visitor expenditure alone. You don't have to use them, but without them many local communities would be the poorer.

My point is not either or but both.
Make your destination more attractive = more footfall = more revenue for local businesses = more tax receipts = better/more facilities for the local residents.
A virtuous circle.

If a campsite offers value for money it will be in demand. There are MH who want sites & those who would never park there wheels in one

 

[Larrynwin]

A couple of years ago I was looking for an aire on the way to Dieppe and by mistake turned into a municipal site. I went for a walk to see the aire just a few yards away. The site was almost empty. At first I was a bit miffed but when I looked at the aire, it was pretty full, mostly uneven gravel - and the same price as the site ! I had a quiet grassy site with toilets and showers (spotless)...... This year found a similar municipal site in France... cheap as chips

I remember a stop we did at Stenay , lovely canal side site with an adjacent Aire , they were jammed in with hardly room to open their doors whereas on the site we had stacks of space and facilities to boot and the same experience at Charleville Meziere .
In both cases would be happy to pay a few euros more for an individual pitch.

 

[TM59]

I use MY motorhome the way I want. Over the past 15 years I have stayed mainly on sites, my choice. On occasions I have stayed on aires, lay byes and town centre car parks when it suits me. I enjoy sites because I like to put out my table chairs etc and chill. I am unable to do this in most aires car parks etc. Seldom have I seen the bad behaviour spoken about, in fact a majority of sites are well managed, yes children can be noisy at times, but so what. With regards to onsite facilities I use on occasions but mainly spend MY money in the towns and villages nearby. We get there by using our electric bikes, our feet and public transport. Seldom do I book anywhere or really know where we are going next. Sometimes I stay for a night, sometimes a week, depends on the weather, area etc. Over recent years we spend approx 4/6 months in Europe. Moving every other day or staying in a car park or lay bye does not suit me. I don’t want to go site seeing every day, I don’t want to go into town/village every day. Sometimes it is nice just to chill. I don’t tell others what to do, so please don’t tell me what to do. Each to there own

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