More grief about motorhomes

[busby]

Everything in Europe is perfect - makes me wonder why we're leaving the EU....

Not everything but most of Europe treats campers,caravans and motorhomes as an asset

not a nuisance..Same for trucks,,plenty of civilised parking with decent facilities. BUSBY..

 

[Northernraider]

Netherlands I believe has more camping spaces than any other country in Europe.
(The Dutch as we all see are regular campers, all over Europe)
As it is also the most densely populated country in Europe and the most developed they do not permit any wild or stealth camping anywhere, and if found you would be moved on pretty sharpish.
But they do have carparks where you can (pay) to park and therefore sleep overnight, and some have limited facilities.

I think Belgium has Aires, but they are probably labeled in Walloon or Flemish to keep out the tourists!

I wildcamped in both Netherlands and Belgium last year with no issues

Also used a couple of fully serviced aires free including electric

 

[Northernraider]

Everything in Europe is perfect - makes me wonder why we're leaving the EU....

I'm genuinely baffled by that 2 as in my experience yes europe is way ahead of the uk in many many things

Maybe its because they don't strive to be the best or world-beating but are happy just to be what they are.

 

[tonyidle]

I would like to see overnighting and dump / refill facilities in many / most UK towns. And there may be existing car parks that would fulfil that need. Where I believe real difficulty exists is in providing 24H stopovers.

Most towns struggle to meet car parking requirements. Almost every available unused space is used for that purpose so each motorhome displaces possibly 1.5 cars. The cars are there because people use them to get to work and because tourists also need somewhere to park.

If an aire-type facility is seen to be of value to the town it will be because the place is popular with motorhomers - we would argue that that is the case and it would have to be true to gain the support of the relevant LA. So - how many spaces would be needed? Judging by previous posts on here and links to LAs with problems the answer is a substantial number. Some honeypot locations would need a huge number. As soon as a town has such a facility then to be successful a number of LA employees will be needed to ensure the 24h limit isn't breached and that no-one occupies space with chairs, tables, awnings, etc. Then there is the 'traveller' issue - the law in this country is no deterrent so any facility will be rapidly over-run incurring the cost of their removal and, usually, an attendant clean-up operation.

I cannot see aire-type facilies becoming common for the reasons stated - although some towns may exceptionally have both room and infrastructure to accommodate them. I cannot see any difficulty with overnight stopover introduction other than it requires a change in the law to allow it.

 

[SpeedyDux]

But they do thats my point

I've been on plenty package holidays where I've witnessed pissed up brits. Pissin, puking and even having sex in the street at night...

The lassies are often worse than the guys ...

I get the impression that the Spanish are so fed up with this kind of loutish behaviour by as you say the Brit Yoofs who assume abroad means No Rules Apply, the Spanish are actively trying to deter them, and their popular resorts are trying to attact a more upmarket type of holidaymaker.

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[SpeedyDux]

I would like to see overnighting and dump / refill facilities in many / most UK towns. And there may be existing car parks that would fulfil that need. Where I believe real difficulty exists is in providing 24H stopovers.

Most towns struggle to meet car parking requirements. Almost every available unused space is used for that purpose so each motorhome displaces possibly 1.5 cars. The cars are there because people use them to get to work and because tourists also need somewhere to park.

If an aire-type facility is seen to be of value to the town it will be because the place is popular with motorhomers - we would argue that that is the case and it would have to be true to gain the support of the relevant LA. So - how many spaces would be needed? Judging by previous posts on here and links to LAs with problems the answer is a substantial number. Some honeypot locations would need a huge number. As soon as a town has such a facility then to be successful a number of LA employees will be needed to ensure the 24h limit isn't breached and that no-one occupies space with chairs, tables, awnings, etc. Then there is the 'traveller' issue - the law in this country is no deterrent so any facility will be rapidly over-run incurring the cost of their removal and, usually, an attendant clean-up operation.

I cannot see aire-type facilies becoming common for the reasons stated - although some towns may exceptionally have both room and infrastructure to accommodate them. I cannot see any difficulty with overnight stopover introduction other than it requires a change in the law to allow it.

My local town council keeps trying to get rid of its car parks completely. They sold the biggest one to Tesco who built a supermarket on it, and the remaining main car park for those who shop in the High St was proposed to be the site of a new leisure centre, until the peasants' revolt put a stop to that (for now). There is no hope that the council will allocate any land for an aire or stopover for motorhomes. Totally opposite to their mindset. Every spare scrap of land must be sold to developers.

 

[busby]

My local town council keeps trying to get rid of its car parks completely. They sold the biggest one to Tesco who built a supermarket on it, and the remaining main car park for those who shop in the High St was proposed to be the site of a new leisure centre, until the peasants' revolt put a stop to that (for now). There is no hope that the council will allocate any land for an aire or stopover for motorhomes. Totally opposite to their mindset. Every spare scrap of land must be sold to developers.

It will have to be housing development now because high st retail is dead and was going that way well before Covid19. BUSBY.

 

[MC 55 FUN]

My local town council keeps trying to get rid of its car parks completely. They sold the biggest one to Tesco who built a supermarket on it, and the remaining main car park for those who shop in the High St was proposed to be the site of a new leisure centre, until the peasants' revolt put a stop to that (for now). There is no hope that the council will allocate any land for an aire or stopover for motorhomes. Totally opposite to their mindset. Every spare scrap of land must be sold to developers.

It's all about the perceived or actual value of the land i.m.o. , why would a council build / provide an aire & receive next to nowt back in revenue when they can sell land to Tesco's or for housing development for millions of £ & also subsequently benefit from business rates, council tax etc revenue worth millions p.a.

 

[Northernraider]

Maybe the councils are not the answer then.
The campra group are also approaching supermarkets , community centres , church hall carparks etc for overnight parking spots

The council only needs to grant the permission

It doesn't necessarily have to be council carparks .....

Many aires or parking spots in europe aren't the councils land but sport centres etc
Lidl provides spaces in Portugal spain and France, they could do so here also

Most of these carparks are completely empty overnight and many parts of them are empty daytime also

 

[busby]

Maybe the councils are not the answer then.
The campra group are also approaching supermarkets , community centres , church hall carparks etc for overnight parking spots

The council only needs to grant the permission

It doesn't necessarily have to be council carparks .....

Many aires or parking spots in europe aren't the councils land but sport centres etc
Lidl provides spaces in Portugal spain and France, they could do so here also

Most of these carparks are completely empty overnight and many parts of them are empty daytime also

True,,stopped on many supermarket aires in France,,,Works both ways as we always do a big shop there when we do..BUSBY.

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[busby]

Maybe the councils are not the answer then.
The campra group are also approaching supermarkets , community centres , church hall carparks etc for overnight parking spots

The council only needs to grant the permission

It doesn't necessarily have to be council carparks .....

Many aires or parking spots in europe aren't the councils land but sport centres etc
Lidl provides spaces in Portugal spain and France, they could do so here also

Most of these carparks are completely empty overnight and many parts of them are empty daytime also

Look how many Park and Ride sites there are and they are empty at night..BUSBY.

 

[Brains]

It's all about the perceived or actual value of the land i.m.o. , why would a council build / provide an aire & receive next to nowt back in revenue when they can sell land to Tesco's or for housing development for millions of £ & also subsequently benefit from business rates, council tax etc revenue worth millions p.a.

Agreed.
Therefore the concept of a free to use Aire will not work in England (may work in Scotland/Wales though)
I see no reason why a council should not simply charge for overnight parking.

Canterbury Council in Kent is a prime example.
They opened their P&R car park, which is mostly empty at night, to (paid for) overnight parking for motorhomes.
It has been such a success that they are now opening a second one.

 

[Jagtazman]

People spend 20-100K on a MoHo and then begrudge spending a few quid in campsite fees does not make sense.

A few quid is fine but £40 or £50 a night, having to book 3 nights on a Bank Holiday arrive before 8pm. Sorry for us who work does not work. Hence we avoid club sites
I am a FLT but also pay for sites, i support the independents who are flexible and have reasonable charges. Most of the time we do not use facilities as we are self sufficient
£10-£20 pn imho is reasonable.
I also support honesty boxes
Worked a treat in Outer Hebrides last year.

 

[nicholsong]

Agreed.
Therefore the concept of a free to use Aire will not work in England (may work in Scotland/Wales though)
I see no reason why a council should not simply charge for overnight parking.

Canterbury Council in Kent is a prime example.
They opened their P&R car park, which is mostly empty at night, to (paid for) overnight parking for motorhomes.
It has been such a success that they are now opening a second one.

The second one will be bigger and have two service points.

Good work Colin(Parking manager) and Canterbury.

Geoff

 

[gus-lopez]

they do not permit any wild or stealth camping anywhere, and if found you would be moved on pretty sharpish.

That's why the dutch go abroad

Look how many Park and Ride sites there are and they are empty at night..BUSBY.

I know one that doesn't open sundays as all town car parks are free & allows no overnight parking on the other days

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[jessthedog]

True,,stopped on many supermarket aires in France,,,Works both ways as we always do a big shop there when we do..BUSBY.

our local Waitrose are thinking of putting in an aire. I wonder how many will shop there?

 

[Mrsambulancekidd]

I have not read through the entire thread, BUT it didn't take long to notice that some seem to be blaming the disgusting behaviour on wild campers and/or lack of facilities........there are no reasons for anyone to leave a trace of their visit.
We were at Hawick over the weekend and the response from local people has been so positive.
Rubbish went in bins, toilet contents & grey water went home and best of all money was spent in local business.
All this was despite the lock on the toilet block being faulty which meant it was closed.

 

[Coolcats]

A few quid is fine but £40 or £50 a night, having to book 3 nights on a Bank Holiday arrive before 8pm. Sorry for us who work does not work. Hence we avoid club sites
I am a FLT but also pay for sites, i support the independents who are flexible and have reasonable charges. Most of the time we do not use facilities as we are self sufficient
£10-£20 pn imho is reasonable.
I also support honesty boxes
Worked a treat in Outer Hebrides last year.

Don't go on a Bank Holliday then find a site more attuned to your budget a quick look the first Certified Location I looked at is <Broken link removed>I suspect it may be a little more on a Bank Holiday but as I say don't go on Bank Holliday.

The other thought here is 8pm is quite late enough for people to have to be working, for those staff its still a 12 hour day, kids being settled in to bed and the camp site is quietening down for the evening, the last thing needed is another MoHo/Caravan owner turning up late at night. It could be considered selfish to arrive late..later and early hours, unless a genuine accident or holdup (please note I am not saying your selfish).

Two years ago I was staying at a Pub in Wiltshire, it is reasonable that the doors close at Midnight and everyone tucked up in bed. A flaming guest turned up at 2 am Banging on the doors running all around the building shouting to be let in as they had a booking (and did not call to say they would be late)! People are so inconsiderate and selfish they actually woke all the guests up as well as the landlord and staff staying on site.

 

[Brains]

our local Waitrose are thinking of putting in an aire. I wonder how many will shop there?

People who own vehicles that cost a lot of money .....
That will be us then !

 

[spitfire]

Maybe the councils are not the answer then.
The campra group are also approaching supermarkets , community centres , church hall carparks etc for overnight parking spots

The council only needs to grant the permission

It doesn't necessarily have to be council carparks .....

Many aires or parking spots in europe aren't the councils land but sport centres etc
Lidl provides spaces in Portugal spain and France, they could do so here also

Most of these carparks are completely empty overnight and many parts of them are empty daytime also

Would love to spend the night in a supermarket car park in the U.K. not lol

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[jessthedog]

People who own vehicles that cost a lot of money .....
That will be us then !

Ive been informed by a source, that it will be Morelo or Concorde parking only

 

[Bart]

For 20+ years I've stayed on numerous French Camping Municipal sites. Very inexpensive, in or very near the town shops and virtually all well maintained but never seen travellers using or trying to use them.

I wonder why this is?? , Could it be that in France , Spain etc they don't take any shit and would just lock them up if they did not comply , yet meanwhile in Ireland and the UK human rights seem to allow them to just take over car parks etc and takes weeks to get them to move on.

 

[jessthedog]

I love it when people say. “I don’t need a campsite, coz Im self sufficient”
All I need is a tap, somewhere to empty my shyte, a great big bin for my rubbish, somewhere where I can shop, somewhere close to amenties, hook up would be nice, coz me batteries are running low, Free of course.somewhere they dont mind you putting your tables and chairs out, a washing machine for me clothes
Coz im sooo bloody self sufficient, I dont need anything!!!

 

[busby]

Don't go on a Bank Holliday then find a site more attuned to your budget a quick look the first Certified Location I looked at is <Broken link removed>I suspect it may be a little more on a Bank Holiday but as I say don't go on Bank Holliday.

The other thought here is 8pm is quite late enough for people to have to be working, for those staff its still a 12 hour day, kids being settled in to bed and the camp site is quietening down for the evening, the last thing needed is another MoHo/Caravan owner turning up late at night. It could be considered selfish to arrive late..later and early hours, unless a genuine accident or holdup (please note I am not saying your selfish).

Two years ago I was staying at a Pub in Wiltshire, it is reasonable that the doors close at Midnight and everyone tucked up in bed. A flaming guest turned up at 2 am Banging on the doors running all around the building shouting to be let in as they had a booking (and did not call to say they would be late)! People are so inconsiderate and selfish they actually woke all the guests up as well as the landlord and staff staying on site.

8.0pm would be considered early in Spain BUSBY

 

[Northernraider]

I love it when people say. “I don’t need a campsite, coz Im self sufficient”
All I need is a tap, somewhere to empty my shyte, a great big bin for my rubbish, somewhere where I can shop, somewhere close to amenties, hook up would be nice, coz me batteries are running low, Free of course.somewhere they dont mind you putting your tables and chairs out, a washing machine for me clothes
Coz im sooo bloody self sufficient, I dont need anything!!!

I have to admit I haven't seen anyone actually say that

That was like a daily mail story you wrote


Personally I need a tap and waste disposal once every 8/9 days

Thats it

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[Pekepal]

8.0pm would be considered early in Spain BUSBY

They don’t eat until 10pm! Do they have an arrival time limit? Can’t remember as we always arrive mid afternoon if possible.

 

[Pekepal]

I have to admit I haven't seen anyone actually say that

That was like a daily mail story you wrote


Personally I need a tap and waste disposal once every 8/9 days

Thats it

Not in actual words perhaps but the implication is in a lot of posts on here.

 

[Northernraider]

Not in actual words perhaps but the implication is in a lot of posts on here.

Nope I don't think anyone has ever implied all of that.

Those of us that use aires and carparks are well aware of what you can and can't do in them.

Most of us just want a simple place to park up .....and the odd one with waste and water tap service area.

 

[Val 3 dogs]

Could it be that in Spain and France they have real Romanies: a people who are very ancient, proud and wholesome. In the UK sadly our Romanys seem to be heavily outnumbered by new-age travellers, tinkers and drop-outs.
As a child (many years ago), and again in the early 1980's I had the privilege of living alongside true Romanies and having them as friends. They did not leave a trail of rubbish and human waste behind tbem.

 

[busby]

They don’t eat until 10pm! Do they have an arrival time limit? Can’t remember as we always arrive mid afternoon if possible.

On a site in Cabo de Gata we had a couple erecting a tent on the next pitch at 1.0am..They had left their car outside the site ands walked in with their tent and bedding..Many receptions are open until 10.0pm. BUSBY.

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