MOBY GOES TO TURKEY. A tam and pups adventure.

[jockaneezer]

Put something under the throttle pedal to restrict it's travel if you're gonna put a weight on it to increase the revs.

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

Put something under the throttle pedal to restrict it's travel if you're gonna put a weight on it to increase the revs.

Dog ball works under the brake pedal not sure about the accelerator

 

[Helen Ariel]

And Uncle Lenny won't be up for hours!!

Sensible as it’s freezing on the south coast this morning!

 

[tacr2man]

Your battery does more than just provide electricity. It also shorts AC, spikes and transients to ground. Removing the battery from the circuit allows those spikes and transients to travel around, endangering every semiconductor circuit in your car. So not a good idea . If you try loading elec circuit up by putting on headlights, with engine running , alt should compensate if it does not then alt isn't charging .

 

[bigtwin]

Your battery does more than just provide electricity. It also shorts AC, spikes and transients to ground. Removing the battery from the circuit allows those spikes and transients to travel around, endangering every semiconductor circuit in your car. So not a good idea . If you try loading elec circuit up by putting on headlights, with engine running , alt should compensate if it does not then alt isn't charging .

Hence my subsequent edit.

Ian

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[Northernraider]

Bugger!

I’m not sure why it should have stopped the engine as the earth path should still have been available through the negative lead.

Hope it starts again for you.

Ian

Yes it's weird . I've completely removed a battery from a vehicle before while it's running and always stayed running.

 

[bigtwin]

Yes it's weird . I've completely removed a battery from a vehicle before while it's running and always stayed running.

Yes, I can’t think why it would have stopped and am struggling to make sense of it. Hopefully some others will come on-line soon and offer their thoughts.

Ian

 

[Ditcha]

Yes it's weird . I've completely removed a battery from a vehicle before while it's running and always stayed running.

Have you tried a jump lead from the battery to the engine earth?

 

[Bognor Saint]

Sensible as it’s freezing on the south coast this morning!

I'll vouch for that

 

[Barclaybasher]

On a diesel engine surely it's only the fuel pump that can stop it working?

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[Boldly]

On a diesel engine surely it's only the fuel pump that can stop it working?

Possibly the emergency fuel cut off is fed by battery circuit?

 

[Sid52]

That was true on old, 1950s diesels but 'modern' ones will stop if the battery is disconnected.

 

[Lenny HB]

Update:
Another hour on the phone & we are both pulling our hair out.

Tam did some voltage checks this morning and it looks like the earth is OK.
Tam went round to Euromater they only do tyres no batteries, they sent him round to an auto electric place two streets away.

They mainly fit alarms & stereos so don't seem that clued up on Engine electrics. No English so that doesn't help.
They had a quick look but can't spend any time on it until this afternoon as they 5 cars in at the moment. After a quick look they said the cable to the alternator has overheated. I think not, that cable is about an inch dia., at least 95 mm sq.

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced it's the battery, the cable from the alternator goes to the battery then the B2B cables connect to the battery and we are getting a 40 amp charge to the leisure battery but the starter battery doesn't get much above 12v. So the buck boost in the B2B is doing it's job and boosting the voltage to charge the leisure battery. So it points to the starter battery being sulfated up and holding the volts down.

I sent Tam back into them to ask them for a battery to try and to try and explane a B2B and how the leisire battery is getting a charge.

He has just come back saying they were looking at him like he was stupid and still insist it's not the battery.
They have batteries there, it would only take 10 min to prove it but like most garages, the customer is always wrong.

 

[Northernraider]

Have you tried a jump lead from the battery to the engine earth?

I can't find the engine earth without it being on a ramp . Access is not easy.


I'm now at an auto electrician who unfortunately does not speak english so it's a bit of a challenge but they are going to check the wiring etc.

He doesn't think it's the battery, at first he thought it was the alternator till I told him its had a new alternator. But its doing exactly the same thing just now as it did last week. I'm just hoping he finds the real problem . The battery may well be knackered but he's just saying the Same thing I thought , why is there no voltage reading from alternator. I've tried explaining to him that battery may be sulphated etc as uncle lenny suggested but he looks at me like I'm stupid lol. I agree with uncle lenny that the easiest thing to try first would be put another battery on it and see if it then takes a charge from the alternator but its hard to translate that.

So I just have to hope they check all the earth cables and cables from alternator and then the battery. What I don't want is new cables fitted if that's not the problem.

He said he thought the cable from alternator to battery had overheated but if that was the case how is the charge getting to my b2b which is connected to my starter battery.

The alternator seems to be powering everything bar the starter battery . It's basically like the starter battery is just an empty box.

 

[Northernraider]

That was true on old, 1950s diesels but 'modern' ones will stop if the battery is disconnected.

It's not modern it's 25 years old . I've removed batteries from vehicles running that have been newer than that. The merc vario being one example

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[bigtwin]

After a quick look they said the cable to the alternator has overheated. I think not, that cable is about an inch dia., at least 95 mm sq.

Agreed. The alternator couldn’t generate enough current to challenge the cable integrity.

Ian

 

[chaser]

It's not modern it's 25 years old . I've removed batteries from vehicles running that have been newer than that. The merc vario being one example

I know this is going to cost, but why not just buy a battery and put it on yourself, if you are wrong a spare battery isn't going to be the end of the world then you will know if it's worth spending on all this testing.

 

[bigtwin]

The alternator seems to be powering everything bar the starter battery .

That suggests that the battery is unable to accept a charge, ie it’s fubarred.

It's basically like the starter battery is just an empty box.

No, it’s worse than that, it seems that the starter battery is depressing the alternator voltage (as though its internal resistance is very low (although the ‘resting’ voltage doesn’t suggest that one of the cells has shorted)).

Given that you’ve exhausted all the diagnostic avenues it is looking like you’re at the stage of replacing the battery.

Ian

 

[Northernraider]

It's just annoying that I could spend all day again today waiting around till he can look at it and then spend lots of time checking other things that may or not be the fault before just trying another battery on it to see what happens.

I don't want to leave it with them and come back even though I wanted to visit this old town. I'm panicking as my ferry is in 2 days and today is Friday. If I don't get it fixed today its going to be stressful.

Language barriers are a nightmare.

 

[Figaro]

Just buy the battery and put it on yourself

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[Lenny HB]

I know this is going to cost, but why not just buy a battery and put it on yourself, if you are wrong a spare battery isn't going to be the end of the world then you will know if it's worth spending on all this testing.

That is what he is trying to do but it's hard work with these Ities.

 

[chaser]

That is what he is trying to do but it's hard work with these Ities.

Sorry but I got the impression he was trying to borrow one

 

[Northernraider]

I know this is going to cost, but why not just buy a battery and put it on yourself, if you are wrong a spare battery isn't going to be the end of the world then you will know if it's worth spending on all this testing.

That suggests that the battery is unable to accept a charge, ie it’s fubarred.



No, it’s worse than that, it seems that the starter battery is depressing the alternator voltage (as though its internal resistance is very low (although the ‘resting’ voltage doesn’t suggest that one of the cells has shorted)).

Given that you’ve exhausted all the diagnostic avenues it is looking like you’re at the stage of replacing the battery.

Ian

I was resigned to that fact this morning , I went to euromaster to buy a battery but they didn't do them , they sent me to this guy . The street is very narrow , I'd need help to get the van out of here and I don't want to just leave as if it isn't the battery I may need their help. Personally I'd like to try another battery first but I've suggested that and he just says ne needs to check the cables

It's always the way , I know tradesmen train and learn a job etc and I know electrics is definitely not my skill but it's frustrating how they look at you like you're stupid for suggesting things. If it is the cables I'll be first to say OK he was right . But if its the battery ....

The Same thing with the garage the other day ... I wasn't entirely sure it was the alternator. .. I asked them to check and make sure . Yet £500 later and I STILL have the Same problem .

It's all very well just throwing money at it. But if it doesn't fix the bloody problem it's no help. I can't replace the whole van bit by bit .

 

[Lenny HB]

Sorry but I got the impression he was trying to borrow one

Well he was but he went there to buy one and they are trying to convince him it's not the battery.
I think they are trying to be helpful but it's the language problem, translators go to pot when it gets technical.

 

[Northernraider]

I guess if they jack up the van and go underneath and put tester on the alternator itself and it's putting out 13.8 -14.2v then they'll rule out the alternator.



I don't understand how the garage that fitted the new alternator the other day didn't check the voltage afterwards as when I did it was under 13v

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[Boldly]

Can't you connect your hab battery temporarily. It's lithium so don't think it will damage it to start the engine a couple of times? I don't have any experience of lithium so this may be a silly idea sorry if that is the case.

 

[Northernraider]

Can't you connect your hand battery temporarily. It's lithium so don't think it will damage it to start the engine a couple of times? I don't have any experience of lithium so this may be a silly idea sorry if that is the case.

The hab battery is inside the rear of the van . I don't want to damage it either. The hab side is all fine for once In my life and I really don't want to mess any of that up. The van is starting ok this morning as it has charge in it from the trickle charge last night. But its only just over 12v . I've temporarily disconnected the battery maintainer etc so it doesn't confuse this guy anymore by putting a charge in to the starter battery. I'll reconnect and reset the b2b and ablemail etc after he's done.

 

[Just smiffy]

I just can’t see how the alternator is not giving a reading at the battery terminals….

Whether the battery is fecked or not surly the alternator will be chucking volts at it…

 

[chaser]

I just can’t see how the alternator is not giving a reading at the battery terminals….

Whether the battery is fecked or not surly the alternator will be chucking volts at it…

WhAts it showing at the leisure battery?

 

[Northernraider]

I just can’t see how the alternator is not giving a reading at the battery terminals….

Whether the battery is fecked or not surly the alternator will be chucking volts at it…

That's how I thought too because that's been the case with every vehicle I've ever worked on.

But I know nothing about this sulphating thing uncle lenny and bigtwin are talking about

But they say that if the battery is doing that then it won't show the charge.

My brain can't comprehend that so I'm just confuses by the whole bloody thing.

To look at the battery it's normal ,it doesn't look that old. There's no bulges , damage to it anywhere. It doesn't get hot , it doesn't smell , there's no corrosion on terminals or anything. I've no battery warning light coming on . When it went flat yesterday the alternator had still charged my leisure battery from 85ah to full 105ah , it had also powered the lights wipers heater, stereo , 2 satnavs , reverse camera , fridge 12v etc . For the 3/4 hours I was driving. The ONLY thing it hadn't done was charge the starter battery. That makes zero sense to me. Especially as the cables for the b2b etc are all attached to the same terminals on the starter battery that the cables from alternator are. So why would the power come up the cables from alternator and through all the other cables but not go in to the starter battery unless there was something wrong with the starter battery .

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