Fiat 9 speed auto recall notice issued

[Saucer]

Thats what I understand. Originally a Japanese design now being built in-house

 

[MichaelT]

It was a great drive (at least as good as my current Ford 170/405 AT6spd 3.85T GMW) for a higher GMW van. Just hoping for similar cab reliability as would rather not be stranded 900 miles away in south of France . Fingers crossed then and hope the warranty is ‘bomb proof’!

I assume you’ve had no reliability issues with your Carthago - is it 2.2 160/180 ZF9HP?

0nly had it since may and fingers crossed no issues. It's far superior to the 2.3l so smooth and responsive. I do think 9 gears are too many for a van but ours gets up to 9th at about 60 and it's more economic as far as I can tell (miles between tankful) but I've never bothered truly measuring mpg as I'd be scared to go anywhere if I did.

It's the 180hp (previous 2.3 was the same) and because of early issues I took 5 year warranty which also gives breakdown cover.

 

[MichaelT]

My understanding is the series 9 is not affected nor 140bhp on the series 8.

Mine is series 9 and I'm getting update in December?

 

[Pausim]

I’m presuming the series 9 has been supplied with this update.
My understanding is the series 9 got the electrical updates such as blind spot mirrors, auto lights and wipers.

The series 9 has these as options but they are not standard. The updates to the ECU and TCM appear to be very recent and Fiat has been building Series 10 Ducatos with 8 speed auto boxes for a good while now. I think it would be safer to assume that the problem can affect all 9 Speed auto boxes with 2.2l 160bhp and 180bhp engines. If Fiat then say yours is ok then hooray. There was an article saying the series 9 would be ok because it has the 8 speed box but that article is clearly wrong because lots of us have Series 9 with 9 speed boxes.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Friend who's box failed was one of the under filled ones.

Gearbox oil level check ought to be a PDI necessity.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[SpeedyDux]

0nly had it since may and fingers crossed no issues. It's far superior to the 2.3l so smooth and responsive. I do think 9 gears are too many for a van but ours gets up to 9th at about 60 and it's more economic as far as I can tell (miles between tankful) but I've never bothered truly measuring mpg as I'd be scared to go anywhere if I did.

It's the 180hp (previous 2.3 was the same) and because of early issues I took 5 year warranty which also gives breakdown cover.

When I first read about the 9 speed ZF in the Ducato, I understood that ratios 7, 8. and 9 are all overdrive ratios to improve economy.

Correct me if am wrong but 6th in the ZF should be the same gear ratio as top in the manual gearbox.

 

[gus-lopez]

Thats what I understand. Originally a Japanese design now being built in-house

Yes it was used by mitsubishis & a version of it was used in my Kia Carnival

 

[Lenny HB]

Gearbox oil level check ought to be a PDI necessity.

A bit difficult on a sealed unit, the only way to do it is drain the oil an refill with the correct amount. Nearly all gearboxes are sealed these days.

 

[SpeedyDux]

A bit difficult on a sealed unit, the only way to do it is drain the oil an refill with the correct amount. Nearly all gearboxes are sealed these days.

Difficult maybe - not impossible.

 

[tonyidle]

Doesn't the Merc also use the ZF 9?

No - it calls it the 9G-tronic and the internals are visibly different to the ZF.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[10tenmen]

The series 9 has these as options but they are not standard. The updates to the ECU and TCM appear to be very recent and Fiat has been building Series 10 Ducatos with 8 speed auto boxes for a good while now. I think it would be safer to assume that the problem can affect all 9 Speed auto boxes with 2.2l 160bhp and 180bhp engines. If Fiat then say yours is ok then hooray. There was an article saying the series 9 would be ok because it has the 8 speed box but that article is clearly wrong because lots of us have Series 9 with 9 speed boxes.

The article said the update was only for the series 8. Attached below. Will wait to see if the series 9 has similar issues. Not seen any reports on the new 8 speed box as yet.

For which models is the update available?​

The update is intended for Ducato models of the 8th generation equipped with the 9-speed torque converter automatic transmission , which are equipped with the 2.2-liter engines with 160 and 180 hp . According to Fiat, no above-average frequency of damage is known in connection with the 140-hp engine. According to Stellantis, the 2.3-liter diesel engines installed before the summer of 2021 are also not affected, although they have largely the same power and torque. In combination with these engines, however, no noticeable susceptibility to defects of the automatic transmission is known. Before the introduction of the new generation of engines, this combination was sold for several years without any noticeably frequent defects occurring. However, both the 140-hp engine with 2.2-liter displacement and the entire 2.3-liter engine range have a slightly different torque curve, with which the 9-speed apparently harmonizes. Only the torque curves of the 160 and 180 hp 2.2 liter seem to cause problems for the automatic transmission.

 

[ROCHESB]

Phone your dealer, armed with your VIN. I did that yesterday and was told my vehicle is affected (series 8 160BHP 9Speed auto) and it's now booked in for the update next week. The dealer was unaware of the update but checked FIAT online and confirmed I needed it.

 

[Saucer]

A bit difficult on a sealed unit, the only way to do it is drain the oil an refill with the correct amount. Nearly all gearboxes are sealed these days.

I have DSG box in my Skoda Superb. Amazing gearbox but it needs the oil changed every 40k miles. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing

 

[yorkiebar]

When I first read about the 9 speed ZF in the Ducato, I understood that ratios 7, 8. and 9 are all overdrive ratios to improve economy.

Correct me if am wrong but 6th in the ZF should be the same gear ratio as top in the manual gearbox.

Top on the manual is somewhere between 7th and 8th on the 9sp auto.

From this handy spec PDF

https://www.fiatprofessional.fi/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Uusi-Ducato-VAN-tekniset-tiedot-01-2022.pdf

 

[Pausim]

The article said the update was only for the series 8. Attached below. Will wait to see if the series 9 has similar issues. Not seen any reports on the new 8 speed box as yet.

For which models is the update available?​

The update is intended for Ducato models of the 8th generation equipped with the 9-speed torque converter automatic transmission , which are equipped with the 2.2-liter engines with 160 and 180 hp . According to Fiat, no above-average frequency of damage is known in connection with the 140-hp engine. According to Stellantis, the 2.3-liter diesel engines installed before the summer of 2021 are also not affected, although they have largely the same power and torque. In combination with these engines, however, no noticeable susceptibility to defects of the automatic transmission is known. Before the introduction of the new generation of engines, this combination was sold for several years without any noticeably frequent defects occurring. However, both the 140-hp engine with 2.2-liter displacement and the entire 2.3-liter engine range have a slightly different torque curve, with which the 9-speed apparently harmonizes. Only the torque curves of the 160 and 180 hp 2.2 liter seem to cause problems for the automatic transmission.

Yes but that article is not a Fiat one and later they go on to say “ There is only small consolation : the new Ducato 9 uses a new automatic transmission with eight gears.” This is absolutely wrong, several of us have Series 9 models with 9 speed auto boxes. The 8 speed box was announced by Fiat with the Series10. If they have made a mistake about the Series 9 not having the 9 speed box then they could also have made a mistake about the problem being confined to Series 8.

I am not saying you are wrong, the Series 9 may be different. All I am saying is I would not rely on a journalists article that doesn’t know the difference between Series 8,9 and 10.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[10tenmen]

Yes but that article is not a Fiat one and later they go on to say “ There is only small consolation : the new Ducato 9 uses a new automatic transmission with eight gears.” This is absolutely wrong, several of us have Series 9 models with 9 speed auto boxes. The 8 speed box was announced by Fiat with the Series10. If they have made a mistake about the Series 9 not having the 9 speed box then they could also have made a mistake about the problem being confined to Series 8.

I am not saying you are wrong, the Series 9 may be different. All I am saying is I would not rely on a journalists article that doesn’t know the difference between Series 8,9 and 10.

Agreed but as yet Fiat have not made public anything about the gearbox issue.
I wonder if anyone with the series 9 160-180 bhp have had the update. I realise yours is the 140bhp model.

 

[Lenny HB]

Agreed but as yet Fiat have not made public anything about the gearbox issue.
I wonder if anyone with the series 9 160-180 bhp have had the update. I realise yours is the 140bhp model.

If you read the thread you would know several people have.

 

[thegronows]

Yes but that article is not a Fiat one and later they go on to say “ There is only small consolation : the new Ducato 9 uses a new automatic transmission with eight gears.” This is absolutely wrong, several of us have Series 9 models with 9 speed auto boxes. The 8 speed box was announced by Fiat with the Series10. If they have made a mistake about the Series 9 not having the 9 speed box then they could also have made a mistake about the problem being confined to Series 8.

I am not saying you are wrong, the Series 9 may be different. All I am saying is I would not rely on a journalists article that doesn’t know the difference between Series 8,9 and 10.

I agree the article is confusing in this respect.

The Carthago-Malibu spec sheet for the new van I drove/in process of buying clearly says Series 9, but the engine/gearbox configuration is 2.2 180 ZF9HP. I don’t think the article is reliable here.

I guess until further info becomes available I guess owners should await the imminent letter/notice or check with Fiat with the vehicle VIN which should be the unique vehicle identifier for Fiat to confirm whether the software update is applicable.

I will follow up with my dealer/Fiat closer to when we take delivery/collect, and will watch this space with interest future updates/experiences from owners here who have booked to get the updates, and others working through the poorly communicated issue by Stellantis/Fiat. They should know the batch of transmissions implicated (and hence individual cabs/vehicles) yet I guess if they publish this then that may constitute some kind of “mass recall” which (some) automotive brands wish to avoid for obvious reasons. More reliable ‘real world’ feedback from the many MHF members here will always be more informative where certain manufacturers try to suppress/be economical with the truth about their design/QC shortcomings.

 

[yorkiebar]

IMO the bottom line is: If you've got a 2.2L 160/180bhp Ducato with a 9sp auto then get in touch with Fiat to check if you need the update.

 

[Dutch 68]

For some people the recall didn’t come in time, a few months old, unbelievable

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Guigsy]

For some people the recall didn’t come in time, a few months old, unbelievable View attachment 981761

But what was the cause? Anything related to this recall? Or the known issue where they were underfilled with oil at the factory? Or just a random failure?

 

[Dutch 68]

But what was the cause? Anything related to this recall? Or the known issue where they were underfilled with oil at the factory? Or just a random failure?

I think a proper diagnoses is still to follow

 

[gus-lopez]

Top on the manual is somewhere between 7th and 8th on the 9sp auto.
View attachment 981707

From this handy spec PDF

https://www.fiatprofessional.fi/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Uusi-Ducato-VAN-tekniset-tiedot-01-2022.pdf

I wonder why the auto reverse gear is so high compared to the manual?
**sorry I misread the chart

 

[Guigsy]

I think a proper diagnoses is still to follow

We don't actually know the failure mode of this particular Arto. And we don't know what the recall aims to fix.

And as that Arto is probably a Mercedes...

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Dropped into my local Fiat Professional dealer in Sandycroft Deeside (Pentagon Group) they weren’t interesting in doing the updates unless I could show them a letter from Fiat telling me to have the update - I showed them the alert from the My Fiat website but they insisted that this was just generic, and loads of people have been quoting this, they said they would need the letter in order for them to get paid and the other side of it is that if they did an update that wasn’t required and if it damaged the gearbox, they would be liable - I explained all the details including how it affects the 9 speed and my 160 Bhp but to no avail - they did say that they will call head office on `Monday and speak to the person who manages warranty and call me back, I won’t hold me breath though
I did say that I will be going to Scotland and back at Christmas and if there is a gearbox software update - I would be unhappy to do this without the update being carried out

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[MichaelT]

Dropped into my local Fiat Professional dealer in Sandycroft Deeside (Pentagon Group) they weren’t interesting in doing the updates unless I could show them a letter from Fiat telling me to have the update - I showed them the alert from the My Fiat website but they insisted that this was just generic, and loads of people have been quoting this, they said they would need the letter in order for them to get paid and the other side of it is that if they did an update that wasn’t required and if it damaged the gearbox, they would be liable - I explained all the details including how it affects the 9 speed and my 160 Bhp but to no avail - they did say that they will call head office on `Monday and speak to the person who manages warranty and call me back, I won’t hold me breath though
I did say that I will be going to Scotland and back at Christmas and if there is a gearbox software update - I would be unhappy to do this without the update being carried out

Surely when they plug it in the computer will decide what if any updates of all sorts are needed?

 

[Dutch 68]

We don't actually know the failure mode of this particular Arto. And we don't know what the recall aims to fix.

And as that Arto is probably a Mercedes...

It’s a fiat

 

[Lenny333]

Dropped into my local Fiat Professional dealer in Sandycroft Deeside (Pentagon Group) they weren’t interesting in doing the updates unless I could show them a letter from Fiat telling me to have the update - I showed them the alert from the My Fiat website but they insisted that this was just generic, and loads of people have been quoting this, they said they would need the letter in order for them to get paid and the other side of it is that if they did an update that wasn’t required and if it damaged the gearbox, they would be liable - I explained all the details including how it affects the 9 speed and my 160 Bhp but to no avail - they did say that they will call head office on `Monday and speak to the person who manages warranty and call me back, I won’t hold me breath though
I did say that I will be going to Scotland and back at Christmas and if there is a gearbox software update - I would be unhappy to do this without the update being carried out

Strange… when I rang Motorvogue Fiat Professional in Norwich, they took my reg. no. Then put me on hold for a couple of minutes and came back and said I do need the update and booked me in. I haven’t actually had a letter…

 

[ROCHESB]

Dropped into my local Fiat Professional dealer in Sandycroft Deeside (Pentagon Group) they weren’t interesting in doing the updates unless I could show them a letter from Fiat telling me to have the update - I showed them the alert from the My Fiat website but they insisted that this was just generic, and loads of people have been quoting this, they said they would need the letter in order for them to get paid and the other side of it is that if they did an update that wasn’t required and if it damaged the gearbox, they would be liable - I explained all the details including how it affects the 9 speed and my 160 Bhp but to no avail - they did say that they will call head office on `Monday and speak to the person who manages warranty and call me back, I won’t hold me breath though
I did say that I will be going to Scotland and back at Christmas and if there is a gearbox software update - I would be unhappy to do this without the update being carried out

Sounds like they cannot be bothered with such a small job......When I spoke to my local Fiat Professional dealer, he couldn't have been more helpful; he said he was unaware of any Auto Gearbox related software update but said give me your VIN, he then accessed the 'system' and confirmed my vehicle was eligible for the update. He said it was a very recent release, mentioned two modules needed updating, the job was costed at 30 mins (free of charge to me) , and booked me in for next week. My vehicle is out of warranty now.

 

[enark]

Sounds like they cannot be bothered with such a small job......When I spoke to my local Fiat Professional dealer, he couldn't have been more helpful; he said he was unaware of any Auto Gearbox related software update but said give me your VIN, he then accessed the 'system' and confirmed my vehicle was eligible for the update. He said it was a very recent release, mentioned two modules needed updating, the job was costed at 30 mins (free of charge to me) , and booked me in for next week. My vehicle is out of warranty now.

Yes similar experience to yours.

Gave Vin and they immediately said yes its required for ECU and TCU updates. Also booked in next week.

Just to add, enquired with MH dealership, who said they were unaware and could not do it, although they claim to be a Fiat Pro service point…

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}