Fiat 9 speed auto recall notice issued

[DC4JC]

might be wrong but I had the impression that the 9 speed ZF had early problems when it was fitted to the Jeep Grand Cherokee.

It did. Below is an example, from some searches I did.

The ZF 9-speed on my brother’s 2015 Renegade croaked the same week the factory warranty expired. Because it was a sealed unit it could not be repaired; the dealer wanted to put a brand new transmission on a three year old vehicle with 36,000 miles.

 

[busby]

I was an HGV driver eons ago in an ERF with a Fuller RT11609 Range Change box and we were envious of ZF at the time.

Twin split Fuller was a superb box..quick change and super reliable.BUSBY.

 

[Guigsy]

But there’s a bit of a difference between 2.5t and 4t+?

Torque is torque. I'm not sure the weight matters. Other than the same torque will accelerate 2.5t quicker. It's the same load though.

 

[Guigsy]

might be wrong but I had the impression that the 9 speed ZF had early problems when it was fitted to the Jeep Grand Cherokee.

It did. Below is an example, from some searches I did.

The ZF 9-speed on my brother’s 2015 Renegade croaked the same week the factory warranty expired. Because it was a sealed unit it could not be repaired; the dealer wanted to put a brand new transmission on a three year old vehicle with 36,000 miles.

There were some early teething troubles. It's been pretty reliable after that (when it gets filled with oil at the factory).

 

[Landy Andy]

But there’s a bit of a difference between 2.5t and 4t+?

There is also a big difference with a 4 wheel drive system, and towing 3.5t behind it

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[SpeedyDux]

Torque is torque. I'm not sure the weight matters. Other than the same torque will accelerate 2.5t quicker. It's the same load though.

The relative weight matters. The ATF temperature will be higher for longer if the van is 3.5 tonne plus, because more energy in proportion to the vehicle mass will be put through the autobox making it run hotter, while the ATF degrades very much faster at higher temperatures. Basic physics and chemistry.

"Sealed for life" autoboxes (without a gearbox oil cooler) like the VW one I had that failed at a mere 80k miles are marketing puff designed to promote sales, and by eliminating regular ATF changes, keep their Dealer Workshop fixed menu service costs low. There's a US website run by owners, dedicated to informing VW T4 owners (called "Eurovan" in the USA) how to DIY service their autoboxes with ATF and filter changes, to avoid an expensive rebuild. I wish I had found it sooner.

 

[TSD1623]

Received it today, booked in for 3rd December .

Hi folks, I have a 2.3 litre, 9 speed Ducato based, Laika motorhome. I just called the Fiat professional in Dundee, Phillips. The lady there said there was no recall on my particular model and age (2021) of vehicle, but did say they had a 2024 model in or coming in for an update, which she could not say specifically what that was. However, she did say that Fiat would contact any owner with any update or recall issue, by letter or email. Don't know if this helps anyone at all, but in case it does, thought I would put it out there. I'm sure many of you would not trust Fiat to do this, like myself.

 

[DC4JC]

There is an ongoing class action with Honda owners in US . See below.
Doesn't read well, especially for those of us with the problematic combo of 180 & heavy MHs.

According to the two Honda owners who filed the lawsuit, the 9-speed transmission problems are caused by improper design and/or calibration of the software in control of the transmission, including the transmission and powertrain control modules.

Then in July 2023, the transmission allegedly “bucked, lagged, illuminated a warning light, shifted into neutral without driver input, and prevented the vehicle's drive gear from being engaged.”

The plaintiffs took their vehicle to a Honda dealer where technicians found “the transmission had internal gear failure,” and the 9-speed automatic transmission was replaced.

The Honda transmission problems cost the plaintiffs $7,619 out-of-pocket for repairs, but allegedly the same defective 9-speed transmission components were installed.

According to the class action lawsuit, the plaintiffs assert the transmission problems remain.

The complaint alleges Honda knows about 9-speed transmission problems because the automaker issued a service campaign and multiple technical service bulletins to dealerships. The Honda bulletins allegedly describe symptoms of a transmission programming defect in ZF 9HP transmissions.

The actions by Honda included alleged repairs for the transmission problems, but the lawsuit alleges the repairs did not fix the 9-speed transmission problems. See www.carcomplaints.com/news/2023/honda-9-speed-transmission-problems-lawsuit.shtml

The Honda 9-speed transmission class action lawsuit was filed in the Northern District of California: Kevin Moore v. American Honda Motor Co., Inc., et al.

 

[Lenny HB]

I might be wrong but I had the impression that the 9 speed ZF had early problems when it was fitted to the Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Assuming it to be the same autobox, I thought that Fiat were being a bit optimistic about fitting this ZF to the heavier Ducato. In any event the ATF could be reaching high temperatures, needing frequent changes even between services, not merely topping-up.

It is based on the Jeep one but has been changed to take the extra load.

Hi folks, I have a 2.3 litre, 9 speed Ducato based, Laika motorhome. I just called the Fiat professional in Dundee, Phillips. The lady there said there was no recall on my particular model and age (2021) of vehicle, but did say they had a 2024 model in or coming in for an update, which she could not say specifically what that was. However, she did say that Fiat would contact any owner with any update or recall issue, by letter or email. Don't know if this helps anyone at all, but in case it does, thought I would put it out there. I'm sure many of you would not trust Fiat to do this, like myself.

Only applies to the new 2.2 engine.

 

[Lenny HB]

Well glad I joined now. My 2023 Fiat Auto also needs the model. Problem is we live in Kent and have to go to Brentford in London to get the fix.
It seems like Fiat Professional in Canterbury no longer do Motorhomes.
Looking forward to the M25 car park.

What about Thames Motor Group at Tunbridge Wells.

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[carolyn]

Booked ours in with Adams Morey Southampton on 4th December at 2pm. They could have done 8am but after waking up to snow today I thought I’d be cautious as it’s a nearly 2 hour drive if I can’t go cross country.

 

[PlymBob]

Thank you everyone.
But for this forum I may never have found out. I bought my 160bhp 9 speed auto in Germany last year. Since then it has been registered in the UK. But quite possibly the notification may never have got through to me.
Contacted Vosper Plymouth today and booked in for next Wednesday. Cheers.

 

[10tenmen]

UPDATE.
Took my 2.2 series 8 160bhp into Jordan’s in Hull. Took them 1 hour mainly due to one of the 2 updates proving difficult to upload.
The upshot is I now have an easily obtainable 9th gear at 70mph which in 3000 miles I rarely achieved, 8th gear is kicking in around 50mph. It’s quite clear that the update has synced the box to the new engine and brought the gear changes into line with the torque of the 2.2.
No discernible difference still very smooth gear changes to the extent that you don’t always feel the change.
Ps Jordan’s in Hull are now a new and used motorhome dealers along with Habitation, Mot and vehicle servicing.

 

[carolyn]

UPDATE.
Took my 2.2 series 8 160bhp into Jordan’s in Hull. Took them 1 hour mainly due to one of the 2 updates proving difficult to upload.
The upshot is I now have an easily obtainable 9th gear at 70mph which in 3000 miles I rarely achieved, 8th gear is kicking in around 50mph. It’s quite clear that the update has synced the box to the new engine and brought the gear changes into line with the torque of the 2.2.
No discernible difference still very smooth gear changes to the extent that you don’t always feel the change.
Hope everyone’s update goes smoothly.

As we don’t feel the gear changes at the moment as it’s so smooth I hope this update isn’t going to screw everything up!

 

[Lenny HB]

Booked ours in with Adams Morey Southampton on 4th December at 2pm. They could have done 8am but after waking up to snow today I thought I’d be cautious as it’s a nearly 2 hour drive if I can’t go cross country.

Although we are only 40 miles away, we always stop at Port Solent for the night. 15min to AM even in rush hour.

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[carolyn]

Although we are only 40 miles away, we always stop at Port Solent for the night. 15min to AM even in rush hour.

I must remember that for next time.

 

[DC4JC]

10tenmen, thanks for the feedback. Very positive. for the rest of us

 

[Pausim]

UPDATE.
Took my 2.2 series 8 160bhp into Jordan’s in Hull. Took them 1 hour mainly due to one of the 2 updates proving difficult to upload.
The upshot is I now have an easily obtainable 9th gear at 70mph which in 3000 miles I rarely achieved, 8th gear is kicking in around 50mph. It’s quite clear that the update has synced the box to the new engine and brought the gear changes into line with the torque of the 2.2.
No discernible difference still very smooth gear changes to the extent that you don’t always feel the change.
Ps Jordan’s in Hull are now a new and used motorhome dealers along with Habitation, Mot and vehicle servicing.

That is interesting and leads me to compare it with my Series 9 2.2l 140bhp which is not due for a recall. My 140 has found 9th gear from new, often at about 60mph if there is no uphill and I am not accelerating hard. Makes me think the 160 and 180 with the new engine had been differently programmed and are now being adjusted to make gear changes more in line with the less powerful models. Doesn’t sound like they have reduced BHP or torque.

 

[enark]

That is interesting and leads me to compare it with my Series 9 2.2l 140bhp which is not due for a recall. My 140 has found 9th gear from new, often at about 60mph if there is no uphill and I am not accelerating hard. Makes me think the 160 and 180 with the new engine had been differently programmed and are now being adjusted to make gear changes more in line with the less powerful models. Doesn’t sound like they have reduced BHP or torque.

Interesting, i have the 180 9 speed, pulling 4 ton, it often goes into 9th at about 55 ish, if on a level ish mway/fast A rd.

Not had mine updated yet, but going to call Grays of Warwick tomorrow..

Yes gotto add, this alone is worth £20 for the forum…as otherwise would have never known

 

[Lenny HB]

That is interesting and leads me to compare it with my Series 9 2.2l 140bhp which is not due for a recall. My 140 has found 9th gear from new, often at about 60mph if there is no uphill and I am not accelerating hard. Makes me think the 160 and 180 with the new engine had been differently programmed and are now being adjusted to make gear changes more in line with the less powerful models. Doesn’t sound like they have reduced BHP or torque.

The more powerful engines may also have a higher ratio final drive.

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[tonyidle]

I think the 9 speed is a bit of a hybrid. It's got a torque converter. But it's also got clutches between gearsets like a manual. It's how they squeezed 9 speeds into a tiny space. The electronics control the timing to do the gear changes and lock the clutches. There's many things they could tweak in software to reduce a wear or stress problems. Many of which, you'd not be able to see or measure from it's performance.

All torque converter autos right back to the earliest 3 speed versions have multiple clutches.

 

[Guigsy]

The more powerful engines may also have a higher ratio final drive.

Not sure that'd make sense. Most of the torque curve is pretty similar, just capped with the lower engines. And I think the axles stab straight into the box, so the factory would need different boxes for different engines.

 

[Guigsy]

All torque converter autos right back to the earliest 3 speed versions have multiple clutches.

Its got dog clutches like a manual box, as well as the friction plates you'd normally find in an auto.

 

[MichaelT]

UPDATE.
Took my 2.2 series 8 160bhp into Jordan’s in Hull. Took them 1 hour mainly due to one of the 2 updates proving difficult to upload.
The upshot is I now have an easily obtainable 9th gear at 70mph which in 3000 miles I rarely achieved, 8th gear is kicking in around 50mph. It’s quite clear that the update has synced the box to the new engine and brought the gear changes into line with the torque of the 2.2.
No discernible difference still very smooth gear changes to the extent that you don’t always feel the change.
Ps Jordan’s in Hull are now a new and used motorhome dealers along with Habitation, Mot and vehicle servicing.

Ours gets into 9th about 60mph

 

[thegronows]

UPDATE.
Took my 2.2 series 8 160bhp into Jordan’s in Hull. Took them 1 hour mainly due to one of the 2 updates proving difficult to upload.
The upshot is I now have an easily obtainable 9th gear at 70mph which in 3000 miles I rarely achieved, 8th gear is kicking in around 50mph. It’s quite clear that the update has synced the box to the new engine and brought the gear changes into line with the torque of the 2.2.
No discernible difference still very smooth gear changes to the extent that you don’t always feel the change.
Ps Jordan’s in Hull are now a new and used motorhome dealers along with Habitation, Mot and vehicle servicing.

That’s good to hear.

Did Jordan’s explain what functional/physical effect(s) the software update should bring and the reasons for not applying it before/at the factory (to the 2.2 in 160/180 variants)?

As with others here, looking to understand/assess whether this ‘fix’ will likely improve/address the longer-term reliability from failure that others on the Forum with the ZF9HP transmission have experienced and recent Fiat ‘recall’ notice/letter. TIA.

J

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[WESTY66]

Ours gets into 9th about 60mph

My comfortmatic gets into 6th about 90mph

 

[MichaelT]

My comfortmatic gets into 6th about 90mph

Is that downhill with a following wind and full

 

[WESTY66]

Id that downhill with a following wind and full

Nope it’s with the mighty 3.0L going up shap

 

[MichaelT]

That’s good to hear.

Did Jordan’s explain what functional/physical effect(s) the software update should bring and the reasons for not applying it before/at the factory (to the 2.2 in 160/180 variants)?

As with others here, looking to understand/assess whether this ‘fix’ will likely improve/address the longer-term reliability from failure that others on the Forum with the ZF9HP transmission have experienced and recent Fiat ‘recall’ notice/letter. TIA.

J

Don't think there's been that many failures on here has there?

My view is they would have spoken with ZF and agreed what changes needed so stupid not to do it as it obviously fixes something.

Also as its a fix and you don't have it will it invalidate my 5 year warranty?

 

[tonyidle]

Its got dog clutches like a manual box, as well as the friction plates you'd normally find in an auto.

Not in the drawings I've seen?

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