Disaster on way to Portugal!!

[dunnah01]

You could always ask a helicopter pilot who tightened his nuts (on the rotor shaft) never known them to come loose !! Same principle applies as previously stated.

And at car dealer rates you should be getting that level of checking of work

 

[dunnah01]

It is tricky. And then we could ask whether the tyre manufacturer is the proper authority, or maybe the vehicle manufacturer, or the wheel manufacturer, or the manufacturer of the fasteners.

I think this unregulated status tells us that it is an area where some parties, e.g. tyre fitters, will tell us to do so, essentially as part of their risk management strategy. And it is of course good practice.

But how many people actually do it? I would be astonished if more than 5% of regular drivers stop after x distance to check the torque of their wheel nuts. (Do more than 5% of drivers even have torque wrenches?)

And how often do wheels come off? Pretty rarely I think, under normal circumstances.

I've had wheel bolts left loose on 3 occasions. Once the garage phoned up in a panic to tell me, a second time I found out after about 50 miles when the wheel started vibrating badly and once I found out when checking after the first two experiences
Last time I had to check was at the last Moho MOT when thay also changed the front tyres. Wheel bolts were fine but all the air came out of one tyre overnight because they couldn't fit a valve properly

 

[pelican]

I have added a torque wrench to my tool chest, we all learn from incidents we are exposed to but the truck place could not believe what they saw, their comments were “this has been caused by loose wheel nuts because every one of the 6 nuts are at the top of the threads before finally shearing the bolts.

I put my faith in first recovery guys competence in been able to do his job, how many of us actually carry the necessary torque wrenches to check again after 100 miles

I always carry a torque wrench but never needed it for wheel change.

 

[Googlebot]

Interestingly, we also lost a rear wheel on an Iveco truck at work. It was just turning out to an emergency when the rear passenger wheel fell off. Thankfully it was fairly low speed and the wheels jammed between the arch and hub.

The investigation concluded that the tyre fitter who had just replaced the tyre earlier in the day (not one of our mechanics) hadn’t retorqued the wheels after 30 mins or 50 miles of driving it.

After that we were all anal about checking it was done and I have been paranoid ever since about my own wheel nuts.

Problem is you trust other people to do things right.

Hope it’s sorted and you are on your way soon. I don’t carry a torque wrench either and rely on the mechanic or recovery agent attending to do it properly.

 

[dunnah01]

Interestingly, we also lost a rear wheel on an Iveco truck at work. It was just turning out to an emergency when the rear passenger wheel fell off. Thankfully it was fairly low speed and the wheels jammed between the arch and hub.

The investigation concluded that the tyre fitter who had just replaced the tyre earlier in the day (not one of our mechanics) hadn’t retorqued the wheels after 30 mins or 50 miles of driving it.

After that we were all anal about checking it was done and I have been paranoid ever since about my own wheel nuts.

Problem is you trust other people to do things right.

Hope it’s sorted and you are on your way soon. I don’t carry a torque wrench either and rely on the mechanic or recovery agent attending to do it properly.

I've also got into the habit of breathing down the fitters neck when they refit wheels to make sure they use a torque wrench. It's also the one set of bolts I actually religiously use the torque wrench on. Funnily enough I've never had a wheel nut or bolt slacken or work loose when I've torqued it up myself

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[Puddleduck]

I would rely on the "professional" as I don't have a clue..... but I do ask a lot of questions being a nosey mare.

 

[Reallyretired]

Having had the misfortune to need to call
breakdown several times abroad I think in every case a recovery truck has been sent in spite of no need for recovery. They also rarely carry any tools so use mine. Although my decrepitude does not let me do anything I do supervise as I know what needs to be done even if I can't do it myself.

 

[Silver-Fox]

My Daughter had some work done on her SWB Caddy van.

She collected it and drove home.
Next day set of to drive down to Wales to go bike riding.

I get a call saying van making a funny noise so told her to carefully drive to our house.

All five bolts loose on the wheel.
Called the garage that did the work, not interested
No apology, nothing.

 

[Minxy]

And how often do wheels come off? Pretty rarely I think, under normal circumstances.

Depends what's normal!

My hubby did some work on the brakes on a caravan we had, taking the wheels off to do so. Whilst I was towing it to a microcar rally/show we were running it started to handle/feel funny so I decided to pull over and check it.

To my horror I discovered that all the bolts on the nearside wheel were loose and the wheel was not far from making a bid for freedom! I couldn't access the tools as the car was stuffed with bits for the rally but fortunately I found that the handle for the caravan legs fitted the nuts so managed to tighten them up sufficiently to be able to continue to the campsite.

Hubby was already there as he'd set off before me however when he asked what had taken me so long, ie my being a slow coach, the smirk was soon wiped from his face and other microcar owners checked the wheels were safe for me. I hate to think what would have happened if the wheel had come off ...

 

[Northernraider]

I don’t think you’re comments are useful.
No way can All these bolts can become loose at the same time.
The bolts have to be torqued to about 190n.
The checking that you refer to is suggested after 100 miles.
(Hands up !!!how many people do that?)

From the op and the pics it looks like a few haven't been loose but have sheared completely. I'm actually surprised a wobble wasn't felt or a knocking heard .


190nm seems quite low though .

Mine are 320nm

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[Lenny HB]

A lucky escape me thinks pleased you are all OK and only a few bits of mechanics to fix.

You might want to consider carrying one of these Tam Northernraider bought one last year, I tried it, a wheel bolt done up to over 200nm only needed finger tip pressure to shift it.

They haven't 'arf gone up in price since last year Tam paid about 45 quid.

 

[Northernraider]

Glad you are ok, a scary tale indeed.
It is unfair for anyone to say that you should check them yourself and check with a torque wrench etc. What about those of us who rely on the professionals because we wouldn’t know where to start and wouldn’t have the tools. I suppose the only way is to go into another garage after the wheel change - but then you are reliant on those people.

Unfortunately unless the recovery guy followed for 30 miles and retightened them it is a chance you take. I've had the wheels off my van myself several times over the last few months and 3 garages have had them off and I've always rechecked the nuts afterwards because a wheel coming off is scary shit. I lost a rear wheel on a car on the M 8 motorway back in 1998 at 70mph .... my son was nearly born premature as a result... I've never heard a woman scream as loud as my ex wife did

 

[Northernraider]

I'm completely out of my depth with regards to this subject, I would expect the professional to know his job, in this case I would reckon from what I've read the mechanic didn't know the job he was doing, in which case you call your boss and say so, without knowing the circumstances the mechanic may have not been able or reluctant to do this. Nobody has ever told me to check the torque settings when a wheel has been replaced, you live and learn.

If you buy tyres and have them fitted it's usually on your invoice . If a breakdown service replaces a wheel for you then it's usually verbal. In a foreign country maybe different or language breakdown. But either way it is and always has been advised to retighten wheel nuts.

But this thread has shown that many obviously don't.

I come from a mechanical background so maybe it's just second nature for me but this thread hopefully does make people more aware.

I guarantee a front wheel coming off would be even more scary

 

[Northernraider]

This was the van he turned up in
View attachment 997252

Looks fine to me . It's Spain. They keep vehicles longer

 

[Northernraider]

It is tricky. And then we could ask whether the tyre manufacturer is the proper authority, or maybe the vehicle manufacturer, or the wheel manufacturer, or the manufacturer of the fasteners.

I think this unregulated status tells us that it is an area where some parties, e.g. tyre fitters, will tell us to do so, essentially as part of their risk management strategy. And it is of course good practice.

But how many people actually do it? I would be astonished if more than 5% of regular drivers stop after x distance to check the torque of their wheel nuts. (Do more than 5% of drivers even have torque wrenches?)

And how often do wheels come off? Pretty rarely I think, under normal circumstances.

I've always done it but then I was taught it aged 16 as an apprentice 2 years before I learned to drive.

But then I also check my oil, coolant level and tp's weekly

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[Northernraider]

A lucky escape me thinks pleased you are all OK and only a few bits of mechanics to fix.

You might want to consider carrying one of these Tam Northernraider bought one last year, I tried it, a wheel bolt done up to over 200nm only needed finger tip pressure to shift it.

They haven't 'arf gone up in price since last year Tam paid about 45 quid.

View attachment 997292

Nah they've not you've just to buy the correct one. I've had a few folk message me over the last 6 months asking about it.

This is the one I bought , fantastic piece of equipment..

VEVOR Torque Multiplier Wrench Set 1" Drive 1:58 Lug Nut Remover with 8 Sockets | eBay

VEVOR Torque Multiplier, Your Ideal Nut Removal Assistant. Multiple Sizes: The heavy duty torque multiplier wrench set includes a 1" drive torque wrench and eight sockets: 21# square、24mm、27mm、30mm、32mm、33mm、38mm、1" adapter、1 x extension socket.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Northernraider]

I always carry a torque wrench but never needed it for wheel change.

I never torque my wheels either , experience has taught me when they are tight enough . On my current van that's as tight as I can physically get them. Flat nuts are a different kettle of fish to tapered nuts n bolts.

 

[Neilfg]

Scary post, glad all are safe and being sorted.

We carry a torque wrench, only ever used to check wheels after a planned tyre change, thankfully.

Puts me off having twin wheel van though

 

[Northernraider]

Interestingly, we also lost a rear wheel on an Iveco truck at work. It was just turning out to an emergency when the rear passenger wheel fell off. Thankfully it was fairly low speed and the wheels jammed between the arch and hub.

The investigation concluded that the tyre fitter who had just replaced the tyre earlier in the day (not one of our mechanics) hadn’t retorqued the wheels after 30 mins or 50 miles of driving it.

After that we were all anal about checking it was done and I have been paranoid ever since about my own wheel nuts.

Problem is you trust other people to do things right.

Hope it’s sorted and you are on your way soon. I don’t carry a torque wrench either and rely on the mechanic or recovery agent attending to do it properly.

It is very very rare you'll ever get a recovery guy to hang around for 30 minutes after he's attended and fitted a wheel they're usually backed up with jobs which is why it takes a couple of hours to get to you in the first place.

So you're right to now be paranoid, I find once you've lost a wheel on a vehicle you tend to start checking them religiously.
I certainly do.

Pain in the ass on this van as I've to unbolt wheel trims to do it too

 

[Northernraider]

Scary post, glad all are safe and being sorted.

We carry a torque wrench, only ever used to check wheels after a planned tyre change, thankfully.

Puts me off having twin wheel van though

Not all twin wheeled vans are the same . My wheel nuts holds both wheels on. If o bought a van with spacers I'd be removing them . Had them on a car once and they are a terrible idea never liked them . Never mind on a 6/7 tonne vehicle

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[Northernraider]

Depends what's normal!

My hubby did some work on the brakes on a caravan we had, taking the wheels off to do so. Whilst I was towing it to a microcar rally/show we were running it started to handle/feel funny so I decided to pull over and check it.

To my horror I discovered that all the bolts on the nearside wheel were loose and the wheel was not far from making a bid for freedom! I couldn't access the tools as the car was stuffed with bits for the rally but fortunately I found that the handle for the caravan legs fitted the nuts so managed to tighten them up sufficiently to be able to continue to the campsite.

Hubby was already there as he'd set off before me however when he asked what had taken me so long, ie my being a slow coach, the smirk was soon wiped from his face and other microcar owners checked the wheels were safe for me. I hate to think what would have happened if the wheel had come off ...

Standard on caravans. The leg winder doubles as a wheel brace. It should always be the Same size . No need for a jack as the steady legs will give enough lift to remove and change a wheel

 

[Northernraider]

The scarier thing for me is the photo of the motorhome on the back of that tiny recovery truck with that overhang knowing there's a car in the garage.

The steering on that truck must be ridiculously light with that weight hanging off the rear .

I thought my 3900kg hymer looked crazy on the back of a truck that size . Think I'd have a panic attack if they tried putting the Flair on one.

Madness

 

[Scotch mist]

The scarier thing for me is the photo of the motorhome on the back of that tiny recovery truck with that overhang knowing there's a car in the garage.

The steering on that truck must be ridiculously light with that weight hanging off the rear .

I thought my 3900kg hymer looked crazy on the back of a truck that size . Think I'd have a panic attack if they tried putting the Flair on one.

Madness

Got a long way to catch-up with these french boys & my MoHo
Back wheels aren’t even on the truck but on the ramps they pull out
Front wheels of truck barley on the ground

 

[Northernraider]

Got a long way to catch-up with these french boys & my MoHo
Back wheels aren’t even on the truck but on the ramps they pull out
Front wheels of truck barley on the ground

View attachment 997318
View attachment 997319

That's ridiculous on that truck . It has about a 3 tonne load capacity at max

 

[martin2603]

It’s has ‘Nick Me’ written all over it , totally illegal !
One thought on the Torque subject, it is possible to over torque wheel nuts which can have the same disastrous effect, shearing the wheel stud. Chrome hub caps are very shiny but can prevent the hub from cooling and obscure wheel nut indicators if you have them.

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[jongood]

I might add on this particular system the inner bolts are torqued up slacked off and torqued again on a dry thread. No further work is required, same with the outer bolts. The act of full torque backing off and re torque means they are settled and need no further adjustment as I am sure the OP but not the breakdown service we’re aware. More about sympathy for the predicament and grateful no one was hurt.

Apologies if Ive skipped a few posts here, but this isn't the point of retorqueing, it needs the weight of the vehicle on the wheel and to pass through at least one heat cycle to ensure a proper re torque.

Im really relieved for the OP that this ended without a more serious outcome, this could gave been very nasty indeed. However I think this design is shockingly poor because it allows no way to re-torque the inner wheel nuts which also act to retain the outers therfore rendering the whole operation pointless. I am really surprised that TUV were happy with this bodge where the manufacturer really should be speccing a wider axle.

Without wishing to stir things up I agree with L' Hobo it is essential that wheelnuts are re-checked following refitting, especially twins. I had a blowout in Spain last year and even though I considered the fitter looked to be doing a competent job, I still stopped twice and got the torque wrench on them. Those of you who cant do this should find out how to, they re very easy to use and as long as you go the correct way, is an essential bit of maintenance.

 

[dpsuk999]

From the op and the pics it looks like a few haven't been loose but have sheared completely. I'm actually surprised a wobble wasn't felt or a knocking heard .


190nm seems quite low though .

Mine are 320nm

My inner wheel nuts torque is 350Nm and the outer alloy wheel bolts torque is 160Nm

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

The op stopped because a Spanish car flagged him down. How many of us would have been concerned re a Spanish car waiving you down. Ie do you stop or not?

 

[funflair]

Not all twin wheeled vans are the same . My wheel nuts holds both wheels on. If o bought a van with spacers I'd be removing them . Had them on a car once and they are a terrible idea never liked them . Never mind on a 6/7 tonne vehicle

This design has gone through a few different iterations, early ones had alloy rims 2 front two back with very little dish and steel inside back then a big spacer on the back, then they started going all steel on the back but still alloy on the front but modified the front hubs due to the lack of dish, to me it made fitting a spare stupidly complicated so when we ordered I said I wanted steel wheels all around but we have a spacer on the front to make the wheel clear the airbag suspension, the rear is the same bolting into a spacer and might not seem ideal but in all my days of trolling the German forum many of whose member have vans with this set up this is the first time I have read it or heard of it.

And to anybody who thinks twin wheels are more trouble than they are worth you might change your mind if you had a rear blowout or a van with single wheel, me ? I will stick with what we have and would have it again, when the van was new I wanted the wheels off to make sure I could do it at the roadside, well no I couldn't so invested in a couple of big breaker bars and a 3/4" drive socket and extension for the wheel nuts, i'm not too worried about a torque wrench and my "good yuck" on a 900mm breaker bar has been checked a couple of times and has been pretty spot on.

 

[dpsuk999]

From the op and the pics it looks like a few haven't been loose but have sheared completely. I'm actually surprised a wobble wasn't felt or a knocking heard .


190nm seems quite low though .

Mine are 320nm

Oh and there was a slight knocking (I didn’t hear anything but the missus did when she went to the loo) but little did I realize it was probably already a snapped bolt(s) rattling around the milled hole in the spacer, no room for it to fall out as the outer alloy wheel covers the hole

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