Adblue removal

[yellowcarnoreturn]

Does anyone have a contact that removes Adblue through software update? TIA

 

[Al n Val]

I work for a Tuning company and we are getting more and more calls for Add Blue deletion.
Some of the VAG range of vehicles cost £thousands to fix the Add Blue faults. The parts are often on back order and when customers only have a range of a few hundred miles it can render the vehicle unusable.
We recently had one customer who was getting through £30 of Add Blue every couple of weeks. The vehicle is just in Warranty but the dealer won’t replace the system unless it fails completely. They even said if it was replaced it would go wrong again.

hi Ian

can you please tell me, is it a software only deletion or hardware as well. 2021 Ducato 180bhp

Al

 

[BikerGraham]

I work for a Tuning company and we are getting more and more calls for Add Blue deletion.
Some of the VAG range of vehicles cost £thousands to fix the Add Blue faults. The parts are often on back order and when customers only have a range of a few hundred miles it can render the vehicle unusable.
We recently had one customer who was getting through £30 of Add Blue every couple of weeks. The vehicle is just in Warranty but the dealer won’t replace the system unless it fails completely. They even said if it was replaced it would go wrong again.

The amount of problems with these systems is incredible. It’s going to come to a head. Am amazed the media haven’t picked up on it as it’s borderline criminal for the manufacturers to install such inadequate systems.
To all those who think it’s all about saving a few quid on buying adblue. You have no idea how wrong you are.
The systems need to be fit for purpose which they are not.
Go in any manufacturers forums and you see just how many problems there are with these systems.
Most folk accept that things can break. But normally.most. Can be repaired at reasonable costs. Ad blue system can just empty you bank account and that’s if you can get the parts. Which as said are often on back order.
So just think how you would feel with a £40k or £50k car that can’t be used at all because the manufacturer has put a shit system in. It’s just out of warranty. You can’t get the parts to repair it and the EU have said you can’t use it.
I know of people who have had every part tested and all working ok but the software says there is a fault. Updated software and no cure. A week later fault and countdown start again. You can’t really keep going to the garage every week to have the fault reset. Which needs high end diagnostics.
Even though the engine unit in it was ok for the same vehicle say 12 months older model.
It’s the next big class action on being conned

 

[RM_Marine]

We have just taken order of a brand new delivery only miles citreon relay with a ad blue problem which at the looks of it isn't going to get fixed a y time soon

It really does seem that adblue is causing quite alot of issues

 

[Pausim]

The amount of problems with these systems is incredible. It’s going to come to a head. Am amazed the media haven’t picked up on it as it’s borderline criminal for the manufacturers to install such inadequate systems.

Is it the AdBlue system itself that is at fault? It is just as likely to be the last minute rush by some manufacturers to incorporate AdBlue to meet the new testing requirements. Presumably the AdBlue gets its instructions from the vehicle manufacturers ECU, otherwise it wouldn’t know how much AdBlue to dose the system with. Faults like over consumption of AdBlue could just as easily be down to incorrect ECU information. Having had several trouble free years using AdBlue in a 2015 Mercedes Hymer it makes me wonder where the faults lie. If the AdBlue system was so inadequate surely this would have been apparent before other manufacturers adopted it.

Of course I can’t know where the AdBlue problems originate but I suspect that some manufacturers are having more problems with it than others. There are certainly some differences between how manufacturers install the system. My Mercedes had an AdBlue level gauge in the menu but other manufacturers seem to leave drivers guessing and waiting for the warning light to come on. I never saw my warning light, I always added 10 litres when the gauge dropped sufficiently below half.

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

Would have thought the technology was not much more intricate than that used to inject 2T oil into a 2T engine, and all the manufactures got that dialled in and reliable, starting some 50+years ago!! like the countless 2T pocket rockets that I found irresistible in my yoof, and not so young.
Mike.

 

[BikerGraham]

Is it the AdBlue system itself that is at fault? It is just as likely to be the last minute rush by some manufacturers to incorporate AdBlue to meet the new testing requirements. Presumably the AdBlue gets its instructions from the vehicle manufacturers ECU, otherwise it wouldn’t know how much AdBlue to dose the system with. Faults like over consumption of AdBlue could just as easily be down to incorrect ECU information. Having had several trouble free years using AdBlue in a 2015 Mercedes Hymer it makes me wonder where the faults lie. If the AdBlue system was so inadequate surely this would have been apparent before other manufacturers adopted it.

Of course I can’t know where the AdBlue problems originate but I suspect that some manufacturers are having more problems with it than others. There are certainly some differences between how manufacturers install the system. My Mercedes had an AdBlue level gauge in the menu but other manufacturers seem to leave drivers guessing and waiting for the warning light to come on. I never saw my warning light, I always added 10 litres when the gauge dropped sufficiently below half.

Again your are implying that the problem is people not refilling in sufficient time and that is part of the problem and therefore the users fault. Which is true in a small number of instances but of course does also suit the narrative of others.

Mercedes have the worst reputation of all the manufacturers.
My independent Mercedes specialist says they are not fit for purpose and the worst.

Mercedes can’t fix my car. It’s been in many times. Never had a low level and worked perfectly for 3 years and 4 months. Then suddenly went tits up. Tank level was 3/4. Spent a great deal of money on it and still it’s not working. It was so unreliable last year that I had it use my weekend sports car for work. The 500 mile countdown timer to not able to restart engine is a major software issue.

 

[rog-m740]

Would have thought the technology was not much more intricate than that used to inject 2T oil into a 2T engine, and all the manufactures got that dialled in and reliable, starting some 50+years ago!! like the countless 2T pocket rockets that I found irresistible in my yoof, and not so young.
Mike.

The technology is very much more intricate; 2T oil neither freezes nor crystallises, Adblue does both in normal non-extreme conditions.

 

[Al n Val]

So basically most of us think it’s

ONE BIG COSTLY XXXX UP

 

[Pausim]

Again your are implying that the problem is people not refilling in sufficient time and heat is part of the problem and therefore then users fault.

No, not my intention at all. Sorry if it came across that way.

My intention was to criticise manufacturers who have left the gauge out. Without a gauge you have no way of telling when the stuff is needed other than waiting for the warning light. It is clear that there are many problems. I am just wondering if the root of the problems might be how the vehicle manufacturers have installed and interfaced with the kit, rather than with the kit itself. Either way it needs sorting out.

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[BikerGraham]

No, not my intention at all. Sorry if it came across that way.

My intention was to criticise manufacturers who have left the gauge out. Without a gauge you have no way of telling when the stuff is needed other than waiting for the warning light. It is clear that there are many problems. I am just wondering if the root of the problems might be how the vehicle manufacturers have installed and interfaced with the kit, rather than with the kit itself. Either way it needs sorting out.

I think the gauge is a great benefit. But as Mercedes install the gauge and they are the worst then it’s not really the issue.

I think the equipment could work but it is not robust enough for the urea solution being used and not of sufficient refined for the software parameter limits that they use.

In effect it is cheap and chatty systems which is industrial in application as oppose to machining the scientific application.

But worst of all is the mentality that if it’s not working g correctly then the whole car shuts down within 500 miles. Which can be just one to two days use for some.

 

[Al n Val]

But worst of all is the mentality that if it’s not working correctly then the whole car shuts down within 500 miles. Which can be just one to two days use for some.

and that Graham is the very reason i’m having to carry 20 ltrs of the bloody horrible stuff, it’s a massively flawed system that is costing the user £100’s maybe £1000’s which for me is totally unacceptable and certainly not necessary despite the tree huggers opinions

Al

 

[ceejayt]

That’s what I do Lenny but not all filling stations have Adblue pumps, especially in France and Spain

I’m now having to carry 2 x 10ltr containers of it and tbh it’s a pita

Also i’m wondering if mine might have a problem, brand new and i’d done 1250 miles ish before the warning light came on. This trip from leaving home to cross France it came on after 480 miles

daveclare were witness to that as well

The truck stop umps generally have the ad blue pumps - that is what I have used when in Europe

 

[BikerGraham]

and that Graham is the very reason i’m having to carry 20 ltrs of the bloody horrible stuff, it’s a massively flawed system that is costing the user £100’s maybe £1000’s which for me is totally unacceptable and certainly not necessary despite the tree huggers opinions

Al

Bear in mind though if the system has a fault then the 20 litres won’t do anything. That’s only handy if you actually do run low.

 

[Stacetop]

We have a 2020 fiat with Adblue. I thought it was using too much adblue but after being to Fiat they say it is within the normal range for campervans/motorhomes.

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[Steve and Denise]

Our 2018 eu6 Iveco 3.0 ltr has the same engine as the old Fiat Ducato 3.0ltr it gets through 10ltrs of adblue every 1000 miles but the dealership says it’s within parramattas it’s only £30 for 10ltrs of water

 

[ianrm]

hi Ian

can you please tell me, is it a software only deletion or hardware as well. 2021 Ducato 180bhp

Al

Software adjustment.

 

[RandallC]

No the ammunition needs to be used on them.

Exactly.

If you can get 1000miles out of one litre on any vehicle it must be broken. most use copious amounts.



No ,if it was we would have honest politicians.

Most ad blue systems are not fit for purpose. Fact
Ad blue crystallisees , Fact
most Nox sensors along with others are not fit for purpose.Fact
All egr systems are utter shite Fact

Anything electrical has a minimum life of 6 years according to EU directives. fact
They are asking the automotive industry to make diesel engines ,which are meant to run on ANY type of hydro carbon , run on diesel alone with exhaust gases cleaner than the air they are ingesting.
Manufacturers did this years ago. The more they improved them ,the more they moved the goalposts.
If people have trouble breathing maybe it is the people who have a problem? you can't keep everyone alive at the expense of tens of millions.
& no, I have no interest in improving the air quality for myself & family so I certainly have no interest in improving it for you & yours at my expense?

Hhhmmm

Seems a return to horse drawn maybe the best option.

Removes need for petrochems, adblue, MOT, electronics etc etc.

Just a thought

 

[Ditcha]

Hhhmmm

Seems a return to horse drawn maybe the best option.

Removes need for petrochems, adblue, MOT, electronics etc etc.

Just a thought

Then they will tax you for the methane produced unless they fit some sort of emissions gizmo to the horses arse

 

[Jonno1103]

I think rule of thumb is 5 litres of Adblue for every 100 litres of diesel?
Fiat Adblue tank is 19 litres.
Our Transit Adblue tank is 21 litres. We go through about 3 litres every 3/4 tank of diesel. Fuel tank is 70 litres.

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[Brains]

Totally understand about shipping not manufacturing, but as Ad Blue is being used on an industrial scale it just seems easier to make it rather than to collect transport and refine the animal product, now I could be wrong but how many litres are produced and how much from one pig would be needed for a 5 litre can.

It’s an intriguing question I don’t have an answer but suspect industrial scale production needs an industrial supply of urea

I guess if they run short they could always run a hosepipe from the urinals in every pub in the UK.
As we all know, you only rent beer, not buy it!

 

[gus-lopez]

When first installed on many lorries , including one we rented, when you ran out that is all that happened .You ran out
It cannot be hard to modify the ecu back to that system.

 

[activecampers]

Pre adblue euro 6 ducatos have a hi and low egr people are having major problems with these

True - but IFAIK mostly caused by not being serviced correctly with Fiat software updates. The updates ECU software fixes the root cause of the issue (incorrect fueling), but if you haven't had this, then you can get failures (or at least reported troublesome failures) in DPF, DPF cracking, EGRs and even pump/injectors. These would then need fixing AND the ECU updated.
But as fiat servicing is expensive lots of low use motorhomes used "trusted local garages" without access to the new software - and hence the issue is there.
Seems to be v32 onwards is OK.

Lots of info on this on other forums, so use "cheap" servicing at your peril.

** of course, I think its madness! And I can see the frustration some have when facing multi £1000 bills, I've even seen £14k quoted to resolve....

Ad blue is a great idea, badly implemented, and a drop in the ocean now filled with zillions of extra plastic bottles and lorries driving delivering the stuff plus the extra emissions used to create the parts for the ad-blue systems and the replacement parts and the driving to/from garage to get parts looked at, and the driving to/from work and extra work you need to do to pay for the repairs. No ad blue probably better if you take the entire lifecycle into account

 

[Coolcats]

I guess if they run short they could always run a hosepipe from the urinals in every pub in the UK.
As we all know, you only rent beer, not buy it!

Lol love the lateral thinking

 

[activecampers]

My last motorhome had Euro 6 engine and no adblue so no polution issues or it wouldn’t have been manufactured. MOT passed no issues whatsoever.

New motorhome, same engine and adblue, so removing it cannot increase the pollution as there’s none to start with surely

Not same engine, "similar" - the new engine shares many parts, but is now Euro 6D and does NOT have the LP EGR that was required to hit Euro 6.

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[Whiteknight]

Does anyone have a contact that removes Adblue through software update? TIA

Does anyone have a contact that removes Adblue through software update? TIA

I know it’s a long way but west wales tuning near Neyland are fantastic, had mine remapped and adblue deleted because of second faulty tank in five years. Adblue oxidised the sensor in the tank. Peugeot charge over £900 for a 17 ltr plastic tank. What a joke!!

 

[activecampers]

When first installed on many lorries , including one we rented, when you ran out that is all that happened .You ran out
It cannot be hard to modify the ecu back to that system.

Correct. Its not hard. Same as doing 70mph whilst drunk in a 30 limit isn't hard. (not that I've tried.)
But it is against the law.
It will not matter at MOT, even DPF removal can pass MOT - but IF IT IS NOTICED VISUALLY then it fails.
(Seen a few vans with DPFs removed which USED TO pass MOT are now failures under the new rules, and just being re-sold before the MOT is due. Getting DPF reinstalled and ECUs fixed would be a challenge and £££ - not read abou anyone doing it.)
VOSA roadside checks can detect it missing and that will get you in rather large trouble

 

[Silver-Fox]

VOSA roadside checks can detect it missing and that will get you in rather large trouble

How do they check to see if the dpf is removed other than visual?

Are they allowed to interrogate the ecu?

 

[Mikeco]

I did not realise that this Adblue thing was such a big problem,, I’m glad that I have a 2012 Peugeot Boxer with the Ford Puma engine which is now purring like a kitten.
My Volvo uses Adblue but as I only do around 5000 a year and I don’t seem to put that much in.

 

[activecampers]

How do they check to see if the dpf is removed other than visual?

Are they allowed to interrogate the ecu?

Yes, they are actually allowed to do that and they do....

(There is a facebook group with a v helpful garage/MOT tester who sees these things first hand etc and has true first hand stories not usual facebook garbage and provides lots of facts, pictures etc. Often argued with by the internet experts who know better lol)

edit: that said, I've never been pulled and seen very few vosa vehicles/inspections in all my years, and I guess they target the obvious overloaded / white transits type. But thats not to say they won't.

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[Steve and Denise]

Yes, they are actually allowed to do that and they do....

(There is a facebook group with a v helpful garage/MOT tester who sees these things first hand etc and has true first hand stories not usual facebook garbage and provides lots of facts, pictures etc. Often argued with by the internet experts who know better lol)

edit: that said, I've never been pulled and seen very few vosa vehicles/inspections in all my years, and I guess they target the obvious overloaded / white transits type. But thats not to say they won't.

I can only imagine the litigation claims after some VOSA pudding has fried a few grands worth of ecu, especially when you take into consideration most VOSA officers previous employment qualifications