90 days or more in Europe

[Northernraider]

Well we had a NZ couple posting on this Forum not long ago who spent 2 years touring Europe.How did they get away with it..Stop worrying,,it will never happen.BUSBY
?

I've spent nearly 2 years touring Europe, 10 months last year and 10 months so far this year.
But brexit ain't happened yet, what happens after it I daresay will be different

Despite many people thinking we can leave the eu bit retain all the benefits it unfortunately doesn't work like that.

 

[jumartoo]

Could anyone clarify if I would be able to do this. I’m planning to go to Europe (Schengen zone) At the end October for 60days then back to UK for 30 days in January and heading back to Europe making my way over 10days down to Croatia/ Bosnia (non Schengen country) where I intend to stay for 60days heading back into the schengen zone for 110days.
To my understanding I will have spent 90 days in the Schengen zone in the first 180 day rolling period and the clock would then reset allowing me to do another 90 days straight.

Hope all that makes sense.

Croatia, although not YET in Schengen, is in the EU. I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

I presume you mean 10 days not 110?

 

[jongood]

I think there is a lot of misinformation re the ability to check this.

I work in technology, and even if they don’t have a system to do it now, I could have a European wide system to check this in probably a week tops (OK fair enough - knowing public sector it will take 10 times longer than that, but honestly from scratch they could have a pan European solution, multilingual in no more than 3 months).

It’s amazing what cloud computing and a browser can do.

I don't doubt the ability of somebody to devise something. What I'm doubting is the political will to enforce it.

 

[Allanm]

I don't doubt the ability of somebody to devise something. What I'm doubting is the political will to enforce it.

I guess we will find out soon enough when the first person to overstay their 90 days is caught out.
Could be a project for you?

 

[jongood]

I guess we will find out soon enough when the first person to overstay their 90 days is caught out.
Could be a project for you?

Quite, although I suspect numbers if any could be similar to the number of prosecutions for having an out of date breathalyser.

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[jongood]

In fact lets go for broke; 91 days, without carrying spare bulb kit, an EN approved triangle, 2 yellow vests, No Crit d'air sticker while falsely claiming to be classe 2 at the Peage. Btw I also lied about my length and forgot to turn the gas off on the ferry over here.

What do you reckon? 20 years worth.

 

[HarryML]

If I had to comply with the 180 day rule I would currently be illegal.

 

[spitfire]

Well we had a NZ couple posting on this Forum not long ago who spent 2 years touring Europe.How did they get away with it..Stop worrying,,it will never happen.BUSBY
?

Because as friends of ours they may have British passports still but will be change for them too . My daughter has both British and Australian passports but she will also be the same after Brexit si intends to give up her British passport as is no advantage . Another couple from Oz she had a British passport so no problem but he did not so had to get a long term visa as they were renting and staying in France for 6 months .

 

[Northernraider]

In fact lets go for broke; 91 days, without carrying spare bulb kit, an EN approved triangle, 2 yellow vests, No Crit d'air sticker while falsely claiming to be classe 2 at the Peage. Btw I also lied about my length and forgot to turn the gas off on the ferry over here.

What do you reckon? 20 years worth.

You can be guinea pig after brexit .

To think everything will be the same afterwards especially when the pm and many of his fellow idiots gav done nothing but insult the eu over the last year or so is a little niave.

If I had to comply with the 180 day rule I would currently be illegal.

Brexit hasn't happened yet

Hundreds if not thousands have overstayed 180 days but at present they don't care.

I very much doubt they will take the same approach afterwards.

 

[Rob Hammond]

I would imagine lots of brits would just love to spend 90 days touring Europe,but alas only get their 2 weeks in the summer but I suppose that’s life

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[Aubs]

It may be that my brain isn’t fully awake but this don’t make sense to me, if my starts date is on 24th October this year why isn’t this also the start of my 180 day period?

 

[Scotch mist]

I don’t see the point in second guessing what might happen & perhaps might never happen
I’ll just wait for the outcome and adjust accordingly, I have very little or no control over what’s happening now
So no point in me getting stressed over it

Just my opinion

 

[rosalan]

Why not? (answer to original question) We travel to other countries outside of Europe.

 

[Paddywack]

This is quite a depressing thread to read for me. It seems that as the penny drops and people realise that stopping freedom of movement means stopping freedom of movement including ours. (Even worse it won't stop 'arry the Afghan from trying to get here as he's a refugee seeking asylum so isn't affected by Schengen. )

Yet despite the true picture emerging folk are still in denial, if you don't think the Schengen Visa is already enforced go on some of the forums for Aussies visiting EU. The technology is already in place, this isn't a retaliatory action from the EU it's what been put in place for all non EU members.

From the horses mouth:




26 Jul 2018
What are the consequences of overstaying in Schengen Area?

Getting a Schengen Visa is never easy. There are a lot of documents you will need to collect and requirements you must meet. There is the interview and then the wait for visa processing. However, once you get the visa, you feel rewarded and convinced everything was worth it.
To many, the 90 days period per 6 months seems like enough time to spend in the Schengen Zone. Others get granted with visas that have a shorter duration of stay, like five days or two weeks etc. Still, once the end of the visa validity approaches, many of the Schengen visa holders are tempted to stay for longer, time after time asking themselves: What happens if I overstay my Schengen Visa?

If you are being tempted to do such thing, you should just know the following things:

First thing that you should know, is that an overstayed visa never goes unnoticed. The immigration authorities have registered in their databases every person that enters and leaves the Schengen, and every overstaying, even just for a day, is recorded.
Secondly, intentional or unintentional, no overstaying is left unpunished. It could be a fine, immediate deportation or even getting banned from entering the Schengen Zone for a specific amount of time.
Finally, yet importantly, it does not matter if you have entered Schengen territory on a Schengen Visa, or if you are the national of a country, to which a visa waiver has been applied. You are not allowed to overstay the 90 days amount of permitted stay per 180 days, even if you belong to one of the latter. It does not also matter if you are overstaying a Schengen tourist visa or you are overstaying a student visa. There is a visa overstaying penalty for each, and if you do such thing, you will get yours.
Consequences of overstaying in Schengen Zone
Despite that there is not a common policy for all Schengen Member States on the overstaying penalties, each of the states applies different types of penalties.
Therefore, the consequences of overstaying in Schengen territory, whether your visa or the permitted 90 days for nationals of the countries under the visa-waiver program, depend a lot on the number of days you have overstayed, and the country you get caught in. Germany is known to have the strictest immigration laws in the EU in this direction; while Greece is known for applying very high fines to those caught overstaying.
In general, all of the member states apply one of the following types of penalties for overstaying a Schengen visa or a permitted stay.
Deportation
When you get caught staying illegally in Europe, you will totally be deported to you home country. The deportation procedures depend on your case and the country where you are caught. You may be deported immediately, within just a few hours or after a few days. On the other hand, if you get caught engaging in paid activity while overstaying your visa, or engaging in illegal activities, you will most possibly be taken into custody where you will wait for your trial. If you are found guilty then you will be held in prison or fined with a high amount of money. Upon completing the punishment, you will then be deported to you home country and banned from entering the Schengen for a specific amount of time.
Deportation is always followed by another consequence. Usually you will know about it before being deported, since you will receive the decision on you case. If you have just overstayed a few days, and you are lucky to be caught in one of the countries that go easy on overstayers, you may leave without another penalty.

Difficulties coming back to Schengen
Even if you get back to your home country without any fine or ban, you should know that your overstaying will cause you problems the next time you attempt to enter the Schengen Zone. Immigration officers and border guards tend to be suspicious on people who overstay once, no matter in which country they were caught overstaying. Therefore, you will encounter difficulties on getting a Schengen visa or crossing the EU external borders.
Fine
This is the most often penalty for overstaying a visa. Depending on the member state, the fees are applied differently. However, if you are caught after you have illegally remained in the Schengen for a longer time, aside of a fine being applied to you, you will also be banned from entering the Schengen Area for an appointed period of time, or even forever.
Ban
Banning people from entering the Schengen is usually applied to those overstaying and working or engaging in other illegal activities. A person can be banned for a period of three years and more from entering any of the member states of the Schengen area.
No consequences
There are also cases when people do not bear any consequence for overstaying their visa. If you are a child, or a person that cannot travel without a caretaker because of an illness or disability, then most possibly you will not face any consequences for overstaying.
On the other hand, if you face an accident or unforeseen illness, or you are in a situation that does not permit you to travel to your home country, then you are strongly advised to apply for a Schengen visa extension instead of overstaying."

So there you have it folks, second confirmatory referendum sound appealing now?

 

[busby]

I don’t see the point in second guessing what might happen & perhaps might never happen
I’ll just wait for the outcome and adjust accordingly, I have very little or no control over what’s happening now
So no point in me getting stressed over it

Just my opinion

It's something I am not worrying about..After all if I do fall foul if the law they can't hang me,,CAN THEY?. BUSBY.

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[Armytwowheels]

It may be that my brain isn’t fully awake but this don’t make sense to me, if my starts date is on 24th October this year why isn’t this also the start of my 180 day period?

No idea, it doesn't make sense to me either.

 

[busby]

This is quite a depressing thread to read for me. It seems that as the penny drops and people realise that stopping freedom of movement means stopping freedom of movement including ours. (Even worse it won't stop 'arry the Afghan from trying to get here as he's a refugee seeking asylum so isn't affected by Schengen. )

Yet despite the true picture emerging folk are still in denial, if you don't think the Schengen Visa is already enforced go on some of the forums for Aussies visiting EU. The technology is already in place, this isn't a retaliatory action from the EU it's what been put in place for all non EU members.

From the horses mouth:




26 Jul 2018
What are the consequences of overstaying in Schengen Area?

Getting a Schengen Visa is never easy. There are a lot of documents you will need to collect and requirements you must meet. There is the interview and then the wait for visa processing. However, once you get the visa, you feel rewarded and convinced everything was worth it.
To many, the 90 days period per 6 months seems like enough time to spend in the Schengen Zone. Others get granted with visas that have a shorter duration of stay, like five days or two weeks etc. Still, once the end of the visa validity approaches, many of the Schengen visa holders are tempted to stay for longer, time after time asking themselves: What happens if I overstay my Schengen Visa?

If you are being tempted to do such thing, you should just know the following things:

First thing that you should know, is that an overstayed visa never goes unnoticed. The immigration authorities have registered in their databases every person that enters and leaves the Schengen, and every overstaying, even just for a day, is recorded.
Secondly, intentional or unintentional, no overstaying is left unpunished. It could be a fine, immediate deportation or even getting banned from entering the Schengen Zone for a specific amount of time.
Finally, yet importantly, it does not matter if you have entered Schengen territory on a Schengen Visa, or if you are the national of a country, to which a visa waiver has been applied. You are not allowed to overstay the 90 days amount of permitted stay per 180 days, even if you belong to one of the latter. It does not also matter if you are overstaying a Schengen tourist visa or you are overstaying a student visa. There is a visa overstaying penalty for each, and if you do such thing, you will get yours.
Consequences of overstaying in Schengen Zone
Despite that there is not a common policy for all Schengen Member States on the overstaying penalties, each of the states applies different types of penalties.
Therefore, the consequences of overstaying in Schengen territory, whether your visa or the permitted 90 days for nationals of the countries under the visa-waiver program, depend a lot on the number of days you have overstayed, and the country you get caught in. Germany is known to have the strictest immigration laws in the EU in this direction; while Greece is known for applying very high fines to those caught overstaying.
In general, all of the member states apply one of the following types of penalties for overstaying a Schengen visa or a permitted stay.
Deportation
When you get caught staying illegally in Europe, you will totally be deported to you home country. The deportation procedures depend on your case and the country where you are caught. You may be deported immediately, within just a few hours or after a few days. On the other hand, if you get caught engaging in paid activity while overstaying your visa, or engaging in illegal activities, you will most possibly be taken into custody where you will wait for your trial. If you are found guilty then you will be held in prison or fined with a high amount of money. Upon completing the punishment, you will then be deported to you home country and banned from entering the Schengen for a specific amount of time.
Deportation is always followed by another consequence. Usually you will know about it before being deported, since you will receive the decision on you case. If you have just overstayed a few days, and you are lucky to be caught in one of the countries that go easy on overstayers, you may leave without another penalty.

Difficulties coming back to Schengen
Even if you get back to your home country without any fine or ban, you should know that your overstaying will cause you problems the next time you attempt to enter the Schengen Zone. Immigration officers and border guards tend to be suspicious on people who overstay once, no matter in which country they were caught overstaying. Therefore, you will encounter difficulties on getting a Schengen visa or crossing the EU external borders.
Fine
This is the most often penalty for overstaying a visa. Depending on the member state, the fees are applied differently. However, if you are caught after you have illegally remained in the Schengen for a longer time, aside of a fine being applied to you, you will also be banned from entering the Schengen Area for an appointed period of time, or even forever.
Ban
Banning people from entering the Schengen is usually applied to those overstaying and working or engaging in other illegal activities. A person can be banned for a period of three years and more from entering any of the member states of the Schengen area.
No consequences
There are also cases when people do not bear any consequence for overstaying their visa. If you are a child, or a person that cannot travel without a caretaker because of an illness or disability, then most possibly you will not face any consequences for overstaying.
On the other hand, if you face an accident or unforeseen illness, or you are in a situation that does not permit you to travel to your home country, then you are strongly advised to apply for a Schengen visa extension instead of overstaying."

So there you have it folks, second confirmatory referendum sound appealing now?

It says plenty but doesn't seem to be enforced or if it does it's never in the media.BUSBY.

 

[Scotch mist]

It's something I am not worrying about..After all if I do fall foul if the law they can't hang me,,CAN THEY?. BUSBY.

It’s worse than that , they could exile you to Blighty ?

 

[fifthwheel]

I find the whole thing upsetting to be honest. I can't understand why people want to go backwards, I've heard the argument about immigrants but it seems to be people outside of the eu they object to most which we will still get , and I've heard the argument about how much money we pay to Europe but we actually get more in return. So really I have to go with the conclusion that many haven't a clue what they voted for and as a result have just put more restrictions on ourselves.

I thought we got back less than we paid in?

 

[Paddywack]

It says plenty but doesn't seem to be enforced or if it does it's never in the media.BUSBY.

Section 2 https://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/how-to-legally-stay-in-europe-for-more-than-90-days/

Some countries do not mess around with visitors overstaying. For example, Germany, the Netherlands, Poland, Switzerland, and Scandinavian countries are all very strict about entry and exit. If you overstay your tourist visit by longer than a week, there’s a good chance they’ll pull you aside. Two Australians I know were detained leaving Switzerland due to overstaying their visa by two weeks. They were allowed to go with just a warning, but they missed their flights and had to book new flights.
I know of someone who overstayed by six months, tried to leave from Amsterdam, and now has an “illegal immigrant” stamp on her passport. In order to enter Europe again, she must apply for a visa at an embassy and be preapproved: “I made the mistake of attempting to leave from the Netherlands after overstaying a Schengen visa and was caught. I overstayed by about a month, and they hand-drew some sort of insignia in my passport to note my overstay. They told me I’d have to contact the IND and find out if I would be able to enter the Schengen states again.”
(And another blogger I met just told me this happened to them too…so don’t overstay!)

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[jumartoo]

It says plenty but doesn't seem to be enforced or if it does it's never in the media.BUSBY.

That's because it's never applied to the UK before. Why would it be reported on?

 

[Northernraider]

I thought we got back less than we paid in?

 

[TeamBandS]

Another very interesting thread with some good solid info. However, I recall that in precious threads some time back on this and some other sites, it was stated that the 90 in 180 rule is currently an EU regulation and applies to the UK and all EU countries now and it may just not have been enforced. ie A Spanish resident is also subject to the rule. Once we leave it will put on the same status as anyone else from outside the EU. (or perhaps gain a special status given how many EU nations will wish to remain in the UK after B******) I can not provide any documentary evidence and hope that this is not fake news!

Much of what we all think and hope is currently conjecture (accepting what has been linked to official sites above) and we will have to wait and see how it is enforced. My personal belief is that countries such as Spain and Portugal would be somewhat unwilling to forgo the income the UK tourist brings especially in winter and it needs to be remembered that tourism in France plays a significant part in their economy. Some regions of Spain have already stated that certain health care will not be affected immediately and I believe that Portugal have stated that they will be making it easy to gain approval for longer stays - sorry but not able to provide documentation - hopefully others on here will be able to!

 

[fifthwheel]

Sent the wrong link.

 

[tacr2man]

They will have to go some to beat the Aussies , a guy who worked for me over there , overstayed his tourist visa ( I wasn't aware he was tourist as he provided tax file number) I got a phone call , ten minutes later Police arrived , arrested him . In less than half hour was on way to holding facility at airport , within 8 hours was on a plane back to UK with inability to return for 3 years !

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[fifthwheel]

View attachment 337483

The UK contribution to the EU budget - Office for National Statistics

How much does the UK contribute to the EU budget as a member? And what about payments from the EU?

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[Deneb]

I think there is a lot of misinformation re the ability to check this.

I work in technology, and even if they don’t have a system to do it now, I could have a European wide system to check this in probably a week tops (OK fair enough - knowing public sector it will take 10 times longer than that, but honestly from scratch they could have a pan European solution, multilingual in no more than 3 months).

It’s amazing what cloud computing and a browser can do.

The EU has had the Schengen Information System (SIS) for a number of years. We (the UK) for our own perverse reasons had resisted joining it, but that was set to change in the not too distant future before B****t put a spanner in the works.

Think of PNC, DVLA and UK Border Control systems all put into one, and more besides, with the information instantly available to authorised personnel across all member states.

You are checked and logged by your biometric passport every time you enter and leave the Schengen zone. If you arrive in a vehicle they can tell instantly if you are leaving in the same or a different vehicle.

We have had free movement across the zone as an EU member state. Citizens of non-EU countries such as the US, Australia, Russia and many others have not, and have always been subject to the restrictions that we will soon have imposed on us. It is nothing new.

You think they can't follow or check upon you? We were recently asked in a fairly severe and suspicious tone why we were leaving The Netherlands only three days after arriving in a motorhome, within seconds of producing our passports at border control at the port. When my wife showed her plaster cast and the associated hospital paperwork the mood changed considerably and the officer "hoped we would return soon".

There was an Australian on a forum a few years ago, who had somehow managed to enter the EU without being documented. It wasn't a problem until he attempted to leave (within the 90 days although he had no proof of that). He didn't seem to enjoy having his assets seized and spending nearly 48 hours in custody whilst officials satisfied themselves that his story was correct!

 

[fifthwheel]

The UK contribution to the EU budget - Office for National Statistics

How much does the UK contribute to the EU budget as a member? And what about payments from the EU?

www.ons.gov.uk

Unless I am reading it wrong we are out of pocket by 8.6 billion pounds per year.

 

[jumartoo]

Unless I am reading it wrong we are out of pocket by 8.6 billion pounds per year.

But for that we get access to lots of different things. For 35p per person per day!

Single market, freedom of movement, to name two that are most relevant to most people.

 

[Northernraider]

Unless I am reading it wrong we are out of pocket by 8.6 billion pounds per year.

We pay in 8 billion which is 1% of UK goverment annual budget but get back nearly 200billion in economic benefits

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