2030 no new diesel vans. What's your plan?

[xYachties]

Heard about a Nissan Leaf and battery lost capacity and 2 quotes between 19k and 21k for a new battery bank.

Charging will be intreasting, will overload the national grid.

Campsites 16 amp boxes won't charge vans.

Will the street you live in have the heavy enough cables to supply charging to hundreds of cars being charged? Or will every road, Campsites and so on be dug up,for extra capacity? Extra heavy cables?

 

[Jim]

Charging will be intreasting, will overload the national grid.

Not according to the National Grid

 

[Jim]

Campsites 16 amp boxes won't charge vans

I would hope that the Government provide some grants to sites so they can add the electric charging upgrades, it they don't then I can see pitch prices will go though the roof as campsite owners look to recoup their investments, Suddenly thousands of CL's will just disappear because the leccy upgrade will be too expensive

 

[Gromett]

I would hope that the Government provide some grants to sites so they can add the electric charging upgrades, it they don't then I can see pitch prices will go though the roof as campsite owners look to recoup their investments, Suddenly thousands of CL's will just disappear because the leccy upgrade will be too expensive

I don't think CL's will dissapear. Caravans will still be good on 16A hookups. Motorhomes will move to all electric and be able to survive a week easily without hookup using the built in HV battery

 

[Jim]

I don't think CL's will dissapear. Caravans will still be good on 16A hookups. Motorhomes will move to all electric and be able to survive a week easily without hookup using the built in HV battery

All those CLs that don't have electric, and there are a lot of those, would need to pull electric in and then pay for the chargers, That can cost thousands. They are not going to get visitors in vans unless they can provide the chargepoints. Same for caravans because by then all the tow cars will need charging.

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[Gromett]

All those CLs that don't have electric, and there are a lot of those, would need to pull electric in and then pay for the chargers, That can cost thousands. They are not going to get visitors in vans unless they can provide the chargepoints. Same for caravans because by then all the tow cars will need charging.

Erm? You have lost me?

All those CL's that don't have electric will be in the same situation as now.
Tow cars won't need charging any more than they need to be able to fill with petrol at the CL? They will fill/charge before arriving and then again on the way home surely?

However, they will be able to attract more motorhomers because the motorhome is more likely to be self sufficient for energy due to the HUGE battery...

 

[Sundowners]

Any Norwegians on Fun.....last time we were in Bergen most private cars in the city were Electric.... charging points everywhere....distances between cities vast....
Be interesting to see how they view Electric cars...

Norway had/has? INCREDIBLE tax incentives for electric cars!!!!!!---and I am quite sure free charging points?---I believe it is all down to money--- our diesel vehicles will be taxed off the road!!!! ------I dont know which has the best chance of making the deadline--- me,72 now or our motorhome 29 now!!!! So I really don't think I am concerned------ just interested!!!

 

[Raul]

The grid will need some new generation points, as the market moves in the electric direction. As it stands there’s no way on earth they got the capacity. But it will have time to sort itself out. I remember times back in 2006-7 when the demand was 40-45 GW and we relied heavily on interconnects. Specially the French. We still relying heavily on gas, and weather is impredictable. We need to beef up the base load generation.

National Grid: Live

Shows the live status of Great Britain’s electric power transmission network

grid.iamkate.com

 

[tribalbrit]

Not so long ago, diesel was the way to go, all major manufacturers including prestige ones that didn't produce diesel cars at the time, switched to diesel engines on the advise of those in the know.
What a great idea that was and this one is no better. Ill conceived, rushed into being with little thought to the cost and pollution caused manufacturing millions of batteries and no regard to end of life for them.
Another bright idea by those in the know.
Sounds like the grid is going to work wonders, don't forget all our heating systems are supposed to become electric too. Therefore all cooking is too, showers are another draw on the supply. I cant wait, where did I put those candles?

 

[DC4JC]

Tow cars won't need charging any more than they need to be able to fill with petrol at the CL? They will fill/charge before arriving and then again on the way home surely

Thats a big leap and assumption that a large vehicle towing a large caravan will be able to pull in somewhere with a space large enough to accommodate a recharge.

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[tonka]

I have a Burstner...
It's going to outlast me so no issues...

 

[Jim]

All those CL's that don't have electric will be in the same situation as now.

Exactly. Except most vans and tow cars today can arrive with a full tank. So not a problem. Whereas many with leccy vans will be arriving far less than full

Vans less than 4 ton will have to choose between range or payload. And in the age of the leccy van IMO Unless a site has leccy it will be deserted. Hence we will lose CLs

 

[Sundowners]

There are so many perfectly good? 30/ 40 year old cars still running well and serving their owners well in portugal ----- we dont have the rust issue you have in northern Europe------- i cant see how it is environmentally sound to get rid of these and make a load of new electric cars that will never be economical to keep on the road when their batteries die!!------ the amount of pollution created by running these is negligible compared to replacing them!!!
Just my opinion , living in a low population density area of forest land!!!

 

[bigwood]

I cant plan beyond getting to the end of this present crisis let alone decide what to do about an ageing smoky old Transit. Every MOT is a challenge with emissions so I don’t think it’s going to be environmentally friendly in ten years time.

 

[TheMachMan]

There’s plenty of capacity on the grid if cars are charged over night.
Also most journeys are less than a few miles every day, so many will only need charging once a week. There’s loads of data online to back this up.
I used to charge mine off a standard 13A plug, set to charge after midnight.

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[busby]

And you think it is beyond people to think of a way around this issue?

Here are just a couple of suggestions off the top of my head.

1) Designated parking outside your house. Each house gets one designated spot and a kerb side charger. It is up to the household if they have more than one car to alternate the cars for access to their spot/charger.
2) Lampost and kerbside chargers with marked parking spots to ensure they are accessible. Some london areas are already doing this.
3) bookable charging spots. A bunch of charging spots near each house which you can book electronically, with massive fines for anyone blocking them.

There are many, many more. Not all ideas will work in all areas, but using the most suitable system or combination for each area makes them practical.

How can each house have kerb side parking if the roads are too narrow to park on both sides,,are opposite a junction or are at a junction,,Also many houses in my village are narrower than the length of some cars and you can't park bumper to bumper.Who is going to come round and fine the illegal parkers,, people park illegally with immunity because parking is not a police responsibility.I am not being deliberately negative but stating facts for the area I live in..BUSBY.

 

[gus-lopez]

And you think it is beyond people to think of a way around this issue?

Here are just a couple of suggestions off the top of my head.

1) Designated parking outside your house. Each house gets one designated spot and a kerb side charger. It is up to the household if they have more than one car to alternate the cars for access to their spot/charger.
2) Lampost and kerbside chargers with marked parking spots to ensure they are accessible. Some london areas are already doing this.
3) bookable charging spots. A bunch of charging spots near each house which you can book electronically, with massive fines for anyone blocking them.

There are many, many more. Not all ideas will work in all areas, but using the most suitable system or combination for each area makes them practical.

No;1 in most towns won't work. Where my nephew lives, which didn't even exist 50 years ago , the council allowed to be built a town where most of the roads are 5m in width You cannot park in the road unless staggered, The average per house is 4 vehicles. Being a 'green' area with huge amounts of trees, bushes & rabbit run alleyways,+ huge amounts of houses have no parking whatsoever within 2 or 300 metres.
Alternate them where? everywhere is like it in most towns now?
Mate delivered a 130k car up north recently where the bloke said he had lived there 4 years & at no time had he ever been able to park closer than 4 streets away??
I inadvertantly went down a dead end in devon last year. solid parking both sides ,nose to tail each side half on pavement, no off street parking of any sort & even the 'turning'area at the end parked solid. Nowhere for me to turn whatsoever. Had to reverse out 500m.
You appear, like me, to have been too long away from places that used to be passable & are now absolutely bumper to bumper in every street.
2) ok in areas where people have access to other means of transport & where parking is strictly controlled.
I.e if you aren't wealthy you can't even afford to live there to start with. If you are wealthy you would be leaving the car in the multi storey private garage regardless of the cost & plugged in permanently.

3) You wouldn't have to worry about them being blocked it is the street that would be blocked.
These days when the bin men are collecting you are doomed to be stuck behind them until the end of the road or a turning you can go down to go another way. There is usually nowhere for them to pull in & collect.

Also most journeys are less than a few miles every day,

In reality they shouldn't be using a vehicle for anything under about 8 miles.This is what is causing many of the problems, along with too many people, people who think it is a means of getting from Ato B , school runs ,etc;etc,

 

[glenn2926]

There’s plenty of capacity on the grid if cars are charged over night.
Also most journeys are less than a few miles every day, so many will only need charging once a week. There’s loads of data online to back this up.
I used to charge mine off a standard 13A plug, set to charge after midnight.

All very well unless you need to travel further than your battery will take you during the day time. As I said in an earlier post in my pickup I can fill up in 2 or 3 minutes then drive 400 miles fill up again in another 3 or 4 minutes and I’m good for another 400 miles can the electric do this? If it can’t then in reality we’re moving backwards.

 

[Gromett]

Exactly. Except most vans and tow cars today can arrive with a full tank. So not a problem. Whereas many with leccy vans will be arriving far less than full

Vans less than 4 ton will have to choose between range or payload. And in the age of the leccy van IMO Unless a site has leccy it will be deserted. Hence we will lose CLs

We'll have to wait and see. Battery density is going to more than double in the next 10 years for one thing.
Chargers will be everywhere. I for one would plan to arrive on site with at least 80% charge so I don't need a hookup.

We will have to see.

 

[Gromett]

How can each house have kerb side parking if the roads are too narrow to park on both sides,,are opposite a junction or are at a junction,,Also many houses in my village are narrower than the length of some cars and you can't park bumper to bumper.Who is going to come round and fine the illegal parkers,, people park illegally with immunity because parking is not a police responsibility.I am not being deliberately negative but stating facts for the area I live in..BUSBY.

Didn't you read my entire post? I specifically said this;

Not all ideas will work in all areas

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[Gromett]

All very well unless you need to travel further than your battery will take you during the day time. As I said in an earlier post in my pickup I can fill up in 2 or 3 minutes then drive 400 miles fill up again in another 3 or 4 minutes and I’m good for another 400 miles can the electric do this? If it can’t then in reality we’re moving backwards.

How many people drive 800 miles in a day. It is a very small minority and yes they are stuffed today if they were forced to move to an EV.. But in 10 years.... You know something called progress will happen

 

[glenn2926]

How many people drive 800 miles in a day. It is a very small minority and yes they are stuffed today if they were forced to move to an EV.. But in 10 years.... You know something called progress will happen

You’re probably correct but I won’t be able to afford one. I’ve got about 4 to 5 grand in my pickup I doubt I can get an electric one for 10 grand. Even in 10 years.

 

[Gromett]

No;1 in most towns won't work. Where my nephew lives, which didn't even exist 50 years ago , the council allowed to be built a town where most of the roads are 5m in width You cannot park in the road unless staggered, The average per house is 4 vehicles. Being a 'green' area with huge amounts of trees, bushes & rabbit run alleyways,+ huge amounts of houses have no parking whatsoever within 2 or 300 metres.
Alternate them where? everywhere is like it in most towns now?
Mate delivered a 130k car up north recently where the bloke said he had lived there 4 years & at no time had he ever been able to park closer than 4 streets away??
I inadvertantly went down a dead end in devon last year. solid parking both sides ,nose to tail each side half on pavement, no off street parking of any sort & even the 'turning'area at the end parked solid. Nowhere for me to turn whatsoever. Had to reverse out 500m.
You appear, like me, to have been too long away from places that used to be passable & are now absolutely bumper to bumper in every street.
2) ok in areas where people have access to other means of transport & where parking is strictly controlled.
I.e if you aren't wealthy you can't even afford to live there to start with. If you are wealthy you would be leaving the car in the multi storey private garage regardless of the cost & plugged in permanently.

ok. Let's cancel the whole thing because gus-lopez thinks we can't figure it out.

Honestly. You are seriously over egging this. YES there will be a minority of areas that have issues... BUT they can be solved with some work, planning and engineering.

Everywhere? is like this now? In most towns?

 

[Gromett]

You’re probably correct but I won’t be able to afford one. I’ve got about 4 to 5 grand in my pickup I doubt I can get an electric one for 10 grand. Even in 10 years.

I have £2,500 in my van. In 10 years I will buy another £2,500 van and it will likely be another 10 years old ICE van. I am not worrying about EV vans until the second hand market builds up.

I suspect this will be around 15 years. EV vans will start to take off in 2025 I think. Then 10 years later they will start hitting the second hand market. At that point I will move across, not before.
I wish I could afford to go EV now, but I am just not motivated enough to put the work in to save that much money

 

[glenn2926]

ok. Let's cancel the whole thing because gus-lopez thinks we can't figure it out.

Honestly. You are seriously over egging this. YES there will be a minority of areas that have issues... BUT they can be solved with some work, planning and engineering.

Everywhere? is like this now? In most towns?

I can see them working in large towns and cities but out in the real world it’s going to take some time, planning and serious thinking about.

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[Gromett]

You’re probably correct but I won’t be able to afford one. I’ve got about 4 to 5 grand in my pickup I doubt I can get an electric one for 10 grand. Even in 10 years.

One other thing to think about is this. In 10 years there will be so many EV's on the road that third parties will start selling battery packs and motors and kits.

How many people with a 10 year old vehicle go out and buy OEM parts? I would hazard a guess that they won't buy a Fiat branded starter motor or fuel pump.
The same will happen for batteries, motors and inverters.

How many people with a samsung phone buy a samsung battery? Or do they go on ebay and buy the cheapest one they can find?

The same will happen to EV's as has happened in every other tech field. Stuff will get dirt cheap and third parties will step in to compete against the overpriced manufactures.

 

[glenn2926]

I have £2,500 in my van. In 10 years I will buy another £2,500 van and it will likely be another 10 years old ICE van. I am not worrying about EV vans until the second hand market builds up.

I suspect this will be around 15 years. EV vans will start to take off in 2025 I think. Then 10 years later they will start hitting the second hand market. At that point I will move across, not before.
I wish I could afford to go EV now, but I am just not motivated enough to put the work in to save that much money

It isn’t saving it. I won’t spend that much on an A to B module. Now motorbikes are different again. I will probably give up riding though when the only option is basically an appliance, like a dishwasher or fridge . A bike needs some soul not a dishwasher motor.

 

[Richard n Ann]

With 6 x 150w panels on the roof you could harvest 4.5kwh per week in the summer. How much would that extend the range? Might make it more practical.

Sorry I meant 4.5k amp hours at 12v

 

[Sid52]

Not sure about NG protestations that they'll have no problem meeting increased demand for car charging. These periods of stretched supply coincided with long periods of calm cloudy weather leading to very low renewable generation.

National Grid warns of short supply of electricity over next few days

System operating at reduced capacity due to low wind speeds and unplanned power plant outages

www.theguardian.com

 

[busby]

We'll have to wait and see. Battery density is going to more than double in the next 10 years for one thing.
Chargers will be everywhere. I for one would plan to arrive on site with at least 80% charge so I don't need a hookup.

We will have to see.

In 10 years time I will be 85 so just hope I can still drive,find my way to a site and most of all still be alive to attempt both of those things,,One thing for sure I won't be worrying about an electric vehicle or global warming.BUSBY.

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