2030 no new diesel vans. What's your plan?

[tonyidle]

Come and have a look where i live and i live in a village not the city...All roads in the entire village are parked on because majority of properties are Victorian or older..Most ex mining villages are like this,,BUSBY.

Not every circumstance will be covered initially. Even when horses were the normal means of transportation not everyone had room for stables. When cars became mainstream not every village or road had a filling station. But where there's money to be made the solutions will appear very quickly.

 

[tonyidle]

Whereas now it’s drive 400 miles stop fill up in around 3 or 4 minutes then away again good for another 400 miles.

I have done it but why should anyone consider it safe or necessary? 250 miles + a 30 minute coffee stop will not bring the nation to a standstill. And why do you think a change in behaviour won't be necessary (or desirable) to accommodate EVs?

 

[tonyidle]

Erm? You have lost me?

All those CL's that don't have electric will be in the same situation as now.
Tow cars won't need charging any more than they need to be able to fill with petrol at the CL? They will fill/charge before arriving and then again on the way home surely?

However, they will be able to attract more motorhomers because the motorhome is more likely to be self sufficient for energy due to the HUGE battery...

Apart from which a controlled drip-feed from the EHU will at least top-up if not recharge an EV over a period of days.

 

[Gromett]

It isn’t saving it. I won’t spend that much on an A to B module. Now motorbikes are different again. I will probably give up riding though when the only option is basically an appliance, like a dishwasher or fridge . A bike needs some soul not a dishwasher motor.

Have you ridden a performance electric bike?

A friend of mine said exactly the same thing as this. Was persuaded to try one by a friend of his and ended up selling his Ducati to buy one.

 

[Gromett]

Not sure about NG protestations that they'll have no problem meeting increased demand for car charging. These periods of stretched supply coincided with long periods of calm cloudy weather leading to very low renewable generation.

National Grid warns of short supply of electricity over next few days

System operating at reduced capacity due to low wind speeds and unplanned power plant outages

www.theguardian.com

Did you see the statement from the national grid. It announced the squeeze and with an hour had contracted the required supply.

Another article discussed what happens if the EU cuts us off from the connectors which accounts for 9% of our supply. NG said even if the wind stopped blowing and the connectors were shut down we have enough generating capacity to survive even peaks.

The guardian and others like it only tell part of the story.

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[tonyidle]

Have you ridden a performance electric bike?

A friend of mine said exactly the same thing as this. Was persuaded to try one by a friend of his and ended up selling his Ducati to buy one.

Watch TT Zero. Very specific use of EV but incredibly impressive. When the acceleration of a family car (which is what gives you the kick in a high performance vehicle) exceeds that of supercars there isn't a great deal not to like.

 

[the1andonly]

Back to op question
Eggs what was the question
I'm 65 van 2 so if diesel still about I'm just about ok.
If diesel to expensive i am sure there will be retrofit motors available tt electronics were spending Money on this 2 years ago at least. Alko doing simular . Replacing non driving wheels with motors.When required move the big lump in front ad more batteries and a small ice generator purely for charging. Did i read this in bike magazine in the 80s, thier preferred generator was a Norton wankel single rotor genie produced for EMI with the cymbaline radar system. Back to the future past.
In 10 years time will there be any cats left to skin ? if so there will be more ways to skin them

 

[Cheshirecat57]

All very well unless you need to travel further than your battery will take you during the day time. As I said in an earlier post in my pickup I can fill up in 2 or 3 minutes then drive 400 miles fill up again in another 3 or 4 minutes and I’m good for another 400 miles can the electric do this? If it can’t then in reality we’re moving backwards.

No,it cant do it now, you are correct
Assuming that assuming is ok , and you are assuming that this multi billion privately run industry will completely stand still for ten years.....I and others are assuming it will progress
( i give you gramaphone, LP, 8 track, cassette player, CD, MP3, Ipod, samsung galaxy, apple car play, 5g)

I assume also that one will be able to select V8 setting ( a bit like now when you can play garage/drum n bass at 11 with your window down) so that more people can laugh or shake their heads

 

[Gaston aires]

Motorhomes powered on older fuel methods can still be seen occasionally on our roads.

View attachment 442695

They too will be banned because of methane pollution.
Phil

 

[Sid52]

Did you see the statement from the national grid. It announced the squeeze and with an hour had contracted the required supply.

Another article discussed what happens if the EU cuts us off from the connectors which accounts for 9% of our supply. NG said even if the wind stopped blowing and the connectors were shut down we have enough generating capacity to survive even peaks.

The guardian and others like it only tell part of the story.

It was also in the FT and trade papers. Yes of course they brought in extra capacity, but this is primarily because we have gas generation that is capable of generating 70% of our electricity. I can't see a scenario where we won't need that capacity for when we have persistent winter high pressure systems sat over the UK in winter with little wind and no sun, not an infrequent occurrence. You can have all the wind capacity you like but if the wind doesn't blow .......
It does beg the question of how green electricity can ever be.

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[nicholsong]

As EV technology progresses I shall be interested what happens to graphs plotting payload/battey weight against range.

I expect there will be progress here, but I will not be surprised if the law of diminishing returns does not kick in at some point to create a limiting factor, beyond which there can be no further progress. I surmise that this might particularly happen to those MHs based on van chassis (what is the plural of chassis?) and more particularly ones with max weight of 3500kg, or 4250kg if recognised internationally, but even that extra is proposed only for the battery weight not the vehicle weight ex batteries.(does it include hab batteries - don't go there!). Truck chassis might fare better for those with C1 or C licences.

Geoff

 

[nicholsong]

It was also in the FT and trade papers. Yes of course they brought in extra capacity, but this is primarily because we have gas generation that is capable of generating 70% of our electricity. I can't see a scenario where we won't need that capacity for when we have persistent winter high pressure systems sat over the UK in winter with little wind and no sun, not an infrequent occurrence. You can have all the wind capacity you like but if the wind doesn't blow .......
It does beg the question of how green electricity can ever be.

Tides/currents then, if technology can ever master the sea, as tides and time wait for no man.

 

[HugoBNB]

Those arguments have been made many many times and don't hold water I am afraid.

2030 is the deadline for new pure ICE cars and vans. This is achievable with a bit of a push. That push has just been given, the market will do the rest.
2035 is the deadline for hybrids. I am sure with 15 years to go there is plenty of time to solve ALL the issues.

As for limited battery life. With the exception of the Nissan leaf, it is expected that batteries will be able to last the lifetime of the car. Batteries that are no longer suitable for EV's can be repurposed for storage. This is already happening.
Finally batteries are mainly made of copper and aluminium and can be almost completely recycled already. It will be a solved problem before it even becomes a problem.

When I got my new car in June I had looked at a hybrid version. I decided not to go for it as Mercedes Benz only offered a 2 year warranty on the batteries. I am interested to see what the value of a hybrid Merc is in two years time.

 

[Lenny HB]

Didn’t Scandinavia have electric points for cars years ago, as they used to plug the cars in to keep the engine warm to cut pollution on start up.

Wasn't for pollution it was so the car would start in minus 20 also friends car had a petrol space heater under the bonnet on a timer for when you couldn't plug in.

 

[EuroTrotters]

New Mercedes Electric Sprinter can only manage, an average 96 miles. Base Price £52,000. Have you seen how long its taken MB to get this far? So in 10 years, will it manage 350?. I doubt it. Between two drivers, 800 miles is possible in two days, in a diesel van.

Too much emphasis on Electric cars rather than vans.

I also think more freight should be switched to rail But we demolished a lot in favour of motorways.

Dont think the UK infrastructure will cope.

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[glenn2926]

Have you ridden a performance electric bike?

A friend of mine said exactly the same thing as this. Was persuaded to try one by a friend of his and ended up selling his Ducati to buy one.

I hope he likes it. It probably sounds lovely.

 

[BILL 875]

The national grid will cope with car charging because there is a new law going through parliament that domestic electric supply will be cut to provide for car charging, hospitals etc all done at the drop of the hat if you have a smart meter installed with no compo for any supply disruption as there is now, I will let someone else check this out.

 

[glenn2926]

Watch TT Zero. Very specific use of EV but incredibly impressive. When the acceleration of a family car (which is what gives you the kick in a high performance vehicle) exceeds that of supercars there isn't a great deal not to like.

I have watched it. If electric is so great compared to petrol why are the electric bikes only doing one lap?

 

[Jaws]

Have you ridden a performance electric bike?

A friend of mine said exactly the same thing as this. Was persuaded to try one by a friend of his and ended up selling his Ducati to buy one.

I have.. in fact I have ridden a few and as was said, they really are completely soulless
Yes they do the job ( though the issues of recharging time and range are, at the moment, worse than on cars ) and they do accelerate well with a decent top speed.. But you do not get the feedback to your bum that is required, and all the ones I tried ( various Zero's and an HD Live Wire promo model ) had a range that can only be described as hopeless when ridden with spirit
I was reminded of riding in the mid 60's, when a 120 mile ride required the club rideout committee to have several planning meetings to ensure every one could get to the destination and back safely ( such was the reliability of older brit bikes back then !!! )

 

[SpeedyDux]

It was also in the FT and trade papers. Yes of course they brought in extra capacity, but this is primarily because we have gas generation that is capable of generating 70% of our electricity. I can't see a scenario where we won't need that capacity for when we have persistent winter high pressure systems sat over the UK in winter with little wind and no sun, not an infrequent occurrence. You can have all the wind capacity you like but if the wind doesn't blow .......
It does beg the question of how green electricity can ever be.

Good point. It would be ironic if the National Grid's Short Term Operating Reserve generating capacity including diesel generation has to kick in due to a drop in renewable capacity such as the scenario you described, coupled with high demand (including charging EVs). One CO2 saving offset by more CO2 emission elsewhere. Murphy's Law won't be repealed, ever.

I know Gromett says this situation will be covered by huge battery banks. I think we will get power cuts over significant areas of the UK whenever there are "unforeseen" issues causing a cascade of generation capaciity tripping out. August 2019 being a recent example and that was in high summer not freezing winter. Moving to electric-only vehicles and electric-only domestic heating is a recipe for more frequent power cuts resulting from allegedly unforeseen events. As well as much higher electricity tariffs for everyone. You can bet electricity won't be getting cheaper and it is already about 4x the equivalent tariff for gas energy.

I expect more people who can afford it will install an ICE back-up generator in their garden shed. Probably diesel. At least that way you can be certain that you can charge your EV MH's batteries before setting off again.

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[Jaws]

Watch TT Zero. Very specific use of EV but incredibly impressive. When the acceleration of a family car (which is what gives you the kick in a high performance vehicle) exceeds that of supercars there isn't a great deal not to like.

You can ( at least for the foreseeable future ) no longer watch it Tony
It has been dropped from future programs
It will no doubt return at some point but there were so few entrants and general lack of interest it was removed from the proposed 2020 program not that it made any difference as it turned out LOL !!

 

[SpeedyDux]

When I got my new car in June I had looked at a hybrid version. I decided not to go for it as Mercedes Benz only offered a 2 year warranty on the batteries. I am interested to see what the value of a hybrid Merc is in two years time.

MB's confidence, eh. Contrast that with the 10 year battery warranty offered by Toyota on its hybrids.

 

[Jaws]

MB's confidence, eh. Contrast that with the 10 year battery warranty offered by Toyota on its hybrids.

Mine was an older ( 2008 ) Auris and even that had an 8 year warranty on the battery
As a by the by, I know the lady who bought it and te battery is still performing well

 

[Jaws]

Spooky !
Just had a mail with a link to a page all about a womans experience on an E-Bike
More or less says what has been posted here already, but nice to have it confirmed..
And the fact they( the manufacturer ) thinks that an hour charge every 120 miles is worth bragging about speaks volumes

BROKEN LINK

 

[Vipar]

If you park your vehicle within 5m of a street lamp, then charging it is not a problem.

London councils have been fitting car charging ports to all street lamps for the last 2 years.
Every street lamp is my road doubles up as a car charging port.

How much does it cost to charge a car? Lidl in Bexleyheath it’s FREE if you shop there

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[Puddleduck]

If you park your vehicle within 5m of a street lamp, then charging it is not a problem.

London councils have been fitting car charging ports to all street lamps for the last 2 years.
Every street lamp is my road doubles up as a car charging port.

You have street lamps?

We have one about quarter of a mile away but at that point the road is single track.

No chargers are being put into properties here as the sub-station is at maximum capacity already.

 

[Jim]

I expect there will be progress here, but I will not be surprised if the law of diminishing returns does not kick in at some point to create a limiting factor, beyond which there can be no further progress.

They are pretty sure that in a short time we will have electric trucks capable of pulling 40 tons most of the day. So eventually I don't see any restrictions for motorhomes, and if you can drive 7½ tonners the payload/range ratio should be good. If we are restricted to 3½ then it will get sticky

 

[busby]

New Mercedes Electric Sprinter can only manage, an average 96 miles. Base Price £52,000. Have you seen how long its taken MB to get this far? So in 10 years, will it manage 350?. I doubt it. Between two drivers, 800 miles is possible in two days, in a diesel van.

Too much emphasis on Electric cars rather than vans.

I also think more freight should be switched to rail But we demolished a lot in favour of motorways.

Dont think the UK infrastructure will cope.

England is too small to make rail transport viable..Railway lines dont run into supermarkets,industrial estates etc.BUSBY.

 

[LesW]

If you park your vehicle within 5m of a street lamp, then charging it is not a problem.

London councils have been fitting car charging ports to all street lamps for the last 2 years.
Every street lamp is my road doubles up as a car charging port.

Not having a dig or anything, but this is typical view of a town/city dweller, where they have street lamps and even bus stops 5m away.

 

[autorouter]

One point many people may not realise is. A 100Ah lead battery is only around 1KWh and of that only 600Wh is usable.
A van with a 100Kwh battery will have 80KWh available for use for camping. This is equivelent to a lot more than 100 x 100Ah leisure batteries around the 133 mark.

True, but don't get too carried away. It's only the equivalent of 7kg of LPG

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