Starlink ordered… I feel it’s the only sensible option now..

[Coolcats]

What was it that was supposed to work in Europe? It's bugging me now.

No not in Europe just the U.K.

 

[Coolcats]

Not much use trying to stream tv on a French aire though.

No but the BT/EE sim works

 

[chaser]

No not in Europe just the U.K.

There was one that was affiliated with bt , I had it but could never make it work, it never recognised my password.

 

[chaser]

No but the BT/EE sim works

Found it it is or was fon.

 

[chaser]

UK - Countries

countries.fon.com

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[Gromett]

Well, it was a ‘thing’ in the early days it was patchy but that is not unusual in the roll out of any product. It worked in 2005 I used it a data dongle provided by the company enabled me to do some work on the move and yes that was 2005. I also visited Japan that year and as they had been rolling it out earlier the coverage was much better.

Had you been in a fixed premise or working for a company you would have had a lease line providing X bandwidth of data. If you chose to be an early adopter then you had the pains to go with it. Also it has to be remembered blackberrys were the no 1 phone, apple we’re just growing thier Mac book market windows XP was all the rage it was a different time and a different world. Cloud services was not really a thing due to overall bandwidth limitations across all technologies.

So you can ignore the facts and choose to just speak of your experiences and I respect that and not saying your experiences are wrong.

However what you can’t say is 3G did not exists as it did and was being rolled out just as 5g is today. I have provided dates and who and when 3G started in the U.K. that is a fact.


Having said the above I am not trying to annoy you just asking that you consider your experience may not be the full picture of what was happening at that time.

I owned and ran an internet hosting company based in Nottinghamshire with a datacentre in London. I had leased lines and dedicated fibre connections to my offices. I understand this technology. The problem was that I was permanently on call. I needed a real data connection 24/7 where ever I was even on the move. I got my first motorhome early that year and had to give up on 3G as it just wasn't a thing anywhere I went.

However what you can’t say is 3G did not exists

I never said it didn't exist. Where did I say that? In fact in my last post I even acknowledged it was available on phones in limited areas.

If you stuck to one area and usually a large city you could probably make use of it. But it was not a reliable, useful technology outside of that.

I am telling you for a fact. 3G was not a usable service in 2005. As stated previously, I had a 3G PCMCIA Vodafone modem and I never once in any of my travels saw a 3G signal.
It perhaps worked in central london, but it didn't work in the Docklands where my office/data centre was.

Do you honestly think I would have spent almost £10,000 if it was a viable service? It was not a thing if you wanted reliable mobile data. Do you not think I would have preferred mbps and 10's of £. Rather than kbps at 10s of thousands of £?

Your argument about 5G is about the same. 5G without 4G fallback is also not a thing. Would you buy a 5G only modem now? or would you look for one that is also backward compatible. 5G started in 2018 it is now 5 years later and outside of big cities there is very little coverage.

 

[Gromett]

PS: Here is a 5G independent coverage map. Note this is 5 years in after 5G launched. This is during very very high demand for fast internet.
2005 was only 3 years after Three launching in the UK and demand was much lower for mobile data.

 

[Hugoman]

What was it that was supposed to work in Europe? It's bugging me now.

ET ?

 

[Hugoman]

Over 5 million 423 thousand hot spots to choose from

And only one of them works….and that’s if you climb up a lampost

 

[olley]

It's wants and needs, I want starlink but I don't need it the same as people who buy the latest iPhone.
If you have the cash get it, I don't

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[chaser]

UK - Countries

countries.fon.com

So has anyone else tried fon, there was loads of threads about it years ago but never heard of it for years.

 

[Coolcats]

And only one of them works….and that’s if you climb up a lampost

Must have found that one then, they do work park outside someone house and there it is and if they have a long driveway park on that

 

[Coolcats]

So has anyone else tried fon, there was loads of threads about it years ago but never heard of it for years.

Found this link looks a little dated https://fon.com/bt-wifi-with-fon-rebranding/

 

[cbrookson]

This is what I’m getting in Holland. This is the unprioritised roam Service on Starlink.
29 ms latency.
I do remember Fon. Still have a Fon Service running to give me access to BT WiFi ….
Cheers

 

[Coolcats]

PS: Here is a 5G independent coverage map. Note this is 5 years in after 5G launched. This is during very very high demand for fast internet.
2005 was only 3 years after Three launching in the UK and demand was much lower for mobile data.

View attachment 736362

So maybe we can agree 3G was a thing with patchy service in 2005 it’s just you were not able to access it.

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[Coolcats]

I owned and ran an internet hosting company based in Nottinghamshire with a datacentre in London. I had leased lines and dedicated fibre connections to my offices. I understand this technology. The problem was that I was permanently on call. I needed a real data connection 24/7 where ever I was even on the move. I got my first motorhome early that year and had to give up on 3G as it just wasn't a thing anywhere I went

Having a support team may have helped and of course ISDN 2 which post dial up modem was a boon when working from home 128kb was amazing then broadband at 2Mb all at home, now I get 50Mb, So limiting yourself by being mobile must have been both hard and as you say costly.

I never said it didn't exist. Where did I say that? In fact in my last post I even acknowledged it was available on phones in limited areas.

I think you will find that if someone states something wasn’t a ‘thing’ it is reasonable to assume it dose not exist which in this case is not correct as the product was launched and working (I’m not talking about blank spots)

If you stuck to one area and usually a large city you could probably make use of it. But it was not a reliable, useful technology outside of that.

I am telling you for a fact. 3G was not a usable service in 2005. As stated previously, I had a 3G PCMCIA Vodafone modem and I never once in any of my travels saw a 3G signal.
It perhaps worked in central london, but it didn't work in the Docklands where my office/data centre was.

I am telling you as a fact (hope that doesn’t sound rude) 3G was available just not where you wanted it at that time, it’s a perspective but 3G was available and did work.

Do you honestly think I would have spent almost £10,000 if it was a viable service? It was not a thing if you wanted reliable mobile data. Do you not think I would have preferred mbps and 10's of £. Rather than kbps at 10s of thousands of £?

Well it was your money and your choice on how you spent it

Your argument about 5G is about the same. 5G without 4G fallback is also not a thing. Would you buy a 5G only modem now? or would you look for one that is also backward compatible. 5G started in 2018 it is now 5 years later and outside of big cities there is very little coverage.

So there you go 5g exists but maybe not in the area you would like, a little like 3G back in 2005.

 

[Hugoman]

Are you sure Coolcats 3G existed in 2005 Gromett does sound pretty sure

 

[Coolcats]

Are you sure Coolcats 3G existed in 2005 Gromett does sound pretty sure

100%

Gromett has acknowledged it wasn’t for him as he could not get coverage and I accept that, it was available but not fully rolled out, I was in Japan that year and there was pretty good coverage including in the mountains but they had rolled it out earlier and faster.

I totally get it wasn’t universal in the U.K. and took a while for a good coverage but it existed, Gromett has compared this roll out with 5G and I do not disagree

2003 in the U.K. it was a ‘thing’

‘The first commercial United Kingdom 3G network was started by Hutchison Telecomwhich was originally behind Orange S.A.[17] In 2003, it announced first commercial third generation or 3G mobile phone network in the UK.’

 

[Carpmart]

You’re both right and both wrong…

I know the old COO very well (personal friend through working with him whilst all this was going on) from H3G responsible (accountable) for pre launch and post launch infrastructure to support Hutchison Wampoa launching their 3G network.

I also starting working in the cellular industry in 1986, as a very young man, so know this sector very well indeed.

Anyway, cutting to the chase, the network did launch in 2003… it was shite.

It can be attributed to two many reasons. H3G cited the problem of only being able to run on 1800mhz with no 900Mhz allocated to them, actually 900 was only with Cellnet and Vodafone back then for historical reasons. The technicalities of this is poorer signal propagation into buildings and built up areas in general. The reality was that this wasn’t really the problem and even with HW backing, they couldn’t get the cell investment quickly enough or with enough velocity.

Roll on eight months and a UK operator Network investment share deal was reached meaning a 3x reduction in cost of roll out in infrastructure leading to a five fold increase in velocity of roll out. This network share still exists to this day.

Roll out is always concentrated in population dense areas as it is cheaper to cover quickly and enable the headline, we cover 80% of the population to be used, even when the reality is 20% of land mass coverage.

As for early mobile data adoption, I had an acoustic coupled 12v fax machine in my company car in 1988. This was running on the TACS network. I later had a small (side) business called Direct Mobile Accesories which sold Nokia 2110 data cards in the mid to late 1990’s on what is now known as the 2G network, it was just the digital network then. In the 00’s I had several clever teams working on network integration between infrastructure on 3G and 4G and the bits the customer experienced, in terms of allocation of data sessions and reconciling back to archaic billing engines.

Anyway, none of that is really that interesting now, but it would be good if we could pull this topic back to the discussion of using Starlink in out Camper vans, Motorhomes, temporary residences and anywhere else we choose!

 

[cbrookson]

I also starting working in the cellular industry in 1986, as a very young man, so know this sector very well indeed.

That’s when I started chairing the Group designing the GSM security Algorithms. Went on to one2one and then moved on
Didn’t want to add to the 3G debate though I also helped write those security standards ….
Back to Starlink!!!
Cheers

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[Carpmart]

That’s when I started chairing the Group designing the GSM security Algorithms. Went on to one2one and then moved on
Didn’t want to add to the 3G debate though I also helped write those security standards ….
Back to Starlink!!!
Cheers

Hello Charles, didn’t realise it was you! Hope you’re well! It’s Harvey (Subex)… bloody small world!

 

[Gromett]

Are you sure Coolcats 3G existed in 2005 Gromett does sound pretty sure

I never said it didn't exist. My exact words were it wasn't a thing. i perhaps should not have been so lax with my expression, I didn't expect people to misinterpret it so badly.

By not a thing. I meant not usable, not in common use, not practical etc. The internet in 1998 was not really a thing. It existed, it was available but most people hadn't heard of it, didn't care about it, didn't see the point and didn't want it.
It wasn't really a thing.

I remember 2005 extremely well because it was the year I got my 1st motorhome and spent almost £10,000 on a satellite system and it's supporting equipment. That sticks in the mind a bit.

I travelled extensively in the UK and NOT ONCE was there a 3G signal. It wasn't until around 2007 that I started seeing regular signals outside of London, Nottingham, Sheffield or Birmingham.

If you wanted mobile internet in 2005, 3G was not available unless you restricted yourself to very small areas of the largest cities.

In 2007 when I bought my second motorhome and paid £1,200 to move the dish across, 3G was starting to be in some areas but still most areas outside of towns and cities didn't have coverage.

Having a support team may have helped and of course ISDN 2

Of course I had staff. But I was lead engineer as well as founder/owner. In the event of a serious problem I was the one with the best network and linux/unix knowledge. My support staff were excellent at keeping the customers happy and routine maintenance. But if the network went down, or there was a serious issue at the datacentre it had to be me.

ISDN has never been a mobile solution. I had dual bonded ISDN at home giving me 256Kbs and a 2MBps leased line at the office where my staff were based. But this thread/post was never about fixed broadband it is about mobile broadband.

My original post on this was to point out how much the cost has come down and how much things have improved. The old MotoSat days vs today using Starlink.

If you want to keep believing 3G was a thing in the UK that was useful and usable keep on believing. I am done.

You are right on one thing. The Japanese were far ahead on this, but then again their companies didn't spend stupid money on licenses and skint themselves.

 

[Gromett]

You’re both right and both wrong…

I know the old COO very well (personal friend through working with him whilst all this was going on) from H3G responsible (accountable) for pre launch and post launch infrastructure to support Hutchison Wampoa launching their 3G network.

I also starting working in the cellular industry in 1986, as a very young man, so know this sector very well indeed.

Anyway, cutting to the chase, the network did launch in 2003… it was shite.

It can be attributed to two many reasons. H3G cited the problem of only being able to run on 1800mhz with no 900Mhz allocated to them, actually 900 was only with Cellnet and Vodafone back then for historical reasons. The technicalities of this is poorer signal propagation into buildings and built up areas in general. The reality was that this wasn’t really the problem and even with HW backing, they couldn’t get the cell investment quickly enough or with enough velocity.

Roll on eight months and a UK operator Network investment share deal was reached meaning a 3x reduction in cost of roll out in infrastructure leading to a five fold increase in velocity of roll out. This network share still exists to this day.

Roll out is always concentrated in population dense areas as it is cheaper to cover quickly and enable the headline, we cover 80% of the population to be used, even when the reality is 20% of land mass coverage.

As for early mobile data adoption, I had an acoustic coupled 12v fax machine in my company car in 1988. This was running on the TACS network. I later had a small (side) business called Direct Mobile Accesories which sold Nokia 2110 data cards in the mid to late 1990’s on what is now known as the 2G network, it was just the digital network then. In the 00’s I had several clever teams working on network integration between infrastructure on 3G and 4G and the bits the customer experienced, in terms of allocation of data sessions and reconciling back to archaic billing engines.

Anyway, none of that is really that interesting now, but it would be good if we could pull this topic back to the discussion of using Starlink in out Camper vans, Motorhomes, temporary residences and anywhere else we choose!

You responded while I was typing still. I will leave it there. Thank you.

 

[Coolcats]

You’re both right and both wrong…

I know the old COO very well (personal friend through working with him whilst all this was going on) from H3G responsible (accountable) for pre launch and post launch infrastructure to support Hutchison Wampoa launching their 3G network.

I also starting working in the cellular industry in 1986, as a very young man, so know this sector very well indeed.

Anyway, cutting to the chase, the network did launch in 2003… it was shite.

It can be attributed to two many reasons. H3G cited the problem of only being able to run on 1800mhz with no 900Mhz allocated to them, actually 900 was only with Cellnet and Vodafone back then for historical reasons. The technicalities of this is poorer signal propagation into buildings and built up areas in general. The reality was that this wasn’t really the problem and even with HW backing, they couldn’t get the cell investment quickly enough or with enough velocity.

Roll on eight months and a UK operator Network investment share deal was reached meaning a 3x reduction in cost of roll out in infrastructure leading to a five fold increase in velocity of roll out. This network share still exists to this day.

Roll out is always concentrated in population dense areas as it is cheaper to cover quickly and enable the headline, we cover 80% of the population to be used, even when the reality is 20% of land mass coverage.

As for early mobile data adoption, I had an acoustic coupled 12v fax machine in my company car in 1988. This was running on the TACS network. I later had a small (side) business called Direct Mobile Accesories which sold Nokia 2110 data cards in the mid to late 1990’s on what is now known as the 2G network, it was just the digital network then. In the 00’s I had several clever teams working on network integration between infrastructure on 3G and 4G and the bits the customer experienced, in terms of allocation of data sessions and reconciling back to archaic billing engines.

Anyway, none of that is really that interesting now, but it would be good if we could pull this topic back to the discussion of using Starlink in out Camper vans, Motorhomes, temporary residences and anywhere else we choose!

Phew thank you for confirming it existed which is all I was stating, I was not commenting on reliability or usability Starlink, no thanks not at £90 per month don’t have the need for it. Totally get that if someone lives off grid and needs a reliable connection but most probably do not. But if you really need it I guess it serves a purpose.

 

[Gromett]

Phew thank you for confirming it existed which is all I was stating

I never stated it didn't exist.

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[Coolcats]

I never stated it didn't exist.

Oh ok

 

[Carpmart]

Coolcats to be fair, Gromett never said that 3G didn’t exist, just that it didn’t work, which to be honest (see my above post) it didn’t work! The important points of his (Gromets) posts have been related to the comparison of an early Sat internet solution with Starlink!

 

[Stonemags76]

chaser i also tried to use Fon back in the day! Don’t think I ever got connected anywhere, & we were full time in our van!

 

[chaser]

chaser i also tried to use Fon back in the day! Don’t think I ever got connected anywhere, & we were full time in our van!

Thank god when I got no replys I was beginning to think I had dreamt it.
Do you know honestly I tried for whole days to get it to work, even sat in cafes with Fon stickers on the door and it just wouldn't work.

 

[Hugoman]

Perhaps it existed or was a “thing” in our universe but didn’t exist and wasn’t a “thing” in a parallel universe… just thought I’d throw that in there…

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