P&O Ferries told to stay in port

[RidersofRohan]

If the gov.uk wished to do anything they could just nationalise them without compensation.

Even Boris wouldn’t be so stupid.

 

[cyberyacht]

You can bet that those at the top of the heap aren't out of pocket.

 

[The Wino]

For low paid staff under £30k it’s actually harder for companies to do now. When we left the EU freedom of movement stopped so companies can’t recruit low paid Polish workers and replace their British staff, well not easily anyway. Under EU rules White Knight in Halifax managed to replace their shop floor workforce over a period of time with Polish staff, such that all the signs in the factory were in Polish.
Now work permits are needed unless they are jobs over £30k or in a special occupation such as fruit pickers.
P&O have sneaked in under Maritime law by having their vessels registered abroad.

Depends what happens with tariffs etc. If there are countries with cheaper labour and no import tariffs the manufacturing will just go there. The only way people in low paid jobs will get better pay and conditions in the long term is by training and getting more skilled.

 

[Silver-Fox]

P&O paying ‘handcuff-trained’ personnel £14.50 an hour to deal with sacked seafarers​

Email to private security firm indicates shipowner anticipated potential problems with immediate redundancies

17 March 2022 15:31 GMT UPDATED 17 March 2022 15:31 GMT
By Gary Dixon in London

An email sent to staff at a private security firm shows how P&O Ferries anticipated trouble following its decision to immediately make 800 UK seafarers redundant on its ships.
The message, seen by the Daily Telegraph, reveals the move was prepared at least a number of days in advance, but no notice was given to staff.
https://www.tradewindsnews.com/news/2-1-1186560
The unnamed security firm was asked to send 16 handcuff-trained officers to the Port of Dover in England in case of a “backlash” among crews.
Union members on P&O Ferries have reportedly refused to leave their ships after the ferries were ordered into port on Thursday so that cheaper agency workers could be sent on board instead.
The email, whose sender is not specified in the Telegraph report, states the security officers will be paid £14.50 ($19) per hour for their work.
“You have been selected to deploy on a task in Dover that will be fairly high profile. This task will run for one week,” the email reads. “As of the 17th you will be dispatched by coach to Dover docks to assist the client in their delivery.”

The officers are told information is limited about the nature of the work because of a non-disclosure agreement.
But the personnel were needed to supplement P&O Ferries’ own security teams in the “unlikely” event some of the crew members become “challenging”.
“Essentially, our client will be informing staff of redundancies and there is a possible risk of backlash,” the email continued.
Staff are told to bring their uniforms, including cuffs and a utility belt. But body armour would not be needed, they were advised.

'Shameful act'​

The message also reveals the security officers were told to travel to a hotel in the area by Tuesday, for training on Wednesday.
RMT union general secretary Mick Lynch said he was receiving reports that the security teams were seeking to board ships at Dover.
“We are seeking urgent legal action and are again calling for the government to take action to stop what is fast turning into one of the most shameful acts in the history of British industrial relations,” he added.
“If this happens at P&O it can happen anywhere and we are calling for mass trade union and wider public mobilisation and protest against the company.”

Can a private security firm handcuff someone on a boat in a British port?

 

[John Barrett]

That's an interesting one. Where an offence has been committed, and you carry out a Citizen's arrest using no more force than necessary to restrain someone then you might get away with it. Otherwise it constitutes an assault (IMV).

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[Silver-Fox]

Along the same lines as pilots, hundreds of lives the their hands, but as for difficult tough job

And coach drivers, 52 lives in their hands and a pittance of a wage.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I read government we’re informed 24 hours before - while boris in UEA

Where did you read that? I could not find anything

 

[Silver-Fox]

That's an interesting one. Where an offence has been committed, and you carry out a Citizen's arrest using no more force than necessary to restrain someone then you might get away with it. Otherwise it constitutes an assault (IMV).

That’s my train of thought.
Minimum force allowed to be used.

 

[Ivory55]

If there are older low paid workers who is going to pay to train them in this skill that’s going to earn them a fortune ? Plus loss of earnings while training. If it’s the person themselves it would have to be a massive guarantee return on the money as the older they are the less time to break even let alone get an earn out of it.

 

[The Wino]

If there are older low paid workers who is going to pay to train them in this skill that’s going to earn them a fortune ? Plus loss of earnings while training. If it’s the person themselves it would have to be a massive guarantee return on the money as the older they are the less time to break even let alone get an earn out of it.

If they're older why are they low skilled?. If it's because when they were younger they decided to take jobs that paid better than those taken by others who were prepared to do for example an apprenticeship on low pay to gain skills why shouldn't the better skilled expect better wages for the rest of their career .

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[Grianan]

Where did you read that? I could not find anything

I read this too. Think it was either Guardian or the BBC.

 

[Ivory55]

If they're older why are they low skilled?. If it's because when they were younger they decided to take jobs that paid better than those taken by others who were prepared to do for example an apprenticeship on low pay to gain skills why shouldn't the better skilled expect better wages for the rest of their career .

But if the market is shut or swamped with cheap Labour which employers love so they can make bigger profits it’s ok then. I know you will never agree and you’re set in your mind that the low paid should be grateful for what they get. Just don’t moan if they don’t vote or do things the way you want.

 

[15edward]

The “i” has a full report of what and when the government knew what was about to occur, DuxDeluxe

Ministers 'knew of P&O Ferries' plans to slash jobs'

A leaked memo apparently tried to "justify" the mass redundancies, stating that "without these decisions an estimated 2,200 staff would likely lose their jobs"

inews.co.uk

 

[The Wino]

But if the market is shut or swamped with cheap Labour which employers love so they can make bigger profits it’s ok then. I know you will never agree and you’re set in your mind that the low paid should be grateful for what they get. Just don’t moan if they don’t vote or do things the way you want.

I know you think I'm some sort of evil capitalist which is sort of strange as I think others see me as a leftie particularly on migrants healthcare etc. I think what we need as a country is employers that do make big profits and they should then be taxed without loopholes to pay for better public services especially in health and education. Preferably those profits should come from well paid employees in high skilled jobs with good productivity and education and training should be available and free in areas the economy needs them. There will always be some who see education and training as not cool and want to leave education as soon as possible maybe to work in a family business like farming maybe just because they hate the structure of learning if they choose that course of life why should they expect equal wages to people who have gained higher skills. The course our country has chosen is to rely on free trade around the world and outside of European tariffs . It's a choice which means it's more likely that lower skilled people will compete with other lower skilled around the world as otherwise in the absence of tariffs stuff will be imported my advice to any youngsters would be get as highly skilled as you can in areas that are useful in gaining employment don't go for jobs that appear to pay well but with no prospects in the future. I come from a coal mining area where a lot decided that education wasn't cool as they could earn good money down the pit albiet in dirty often dangerous jobs I suspect steel production areas were the same what's happened to those people now.

 

[monzer]

The “i” has a full report of what and when the government knew what was about to occur, DuxDeluxe

Ministers 'knew of P&O Ferries' plans to slash jobs'

A leaked memo apparently tried to "justify" the mass redundancies, stating that "without these decisions an estimated 2,200 staff would likely lose their jobs"

inews.co.uk

Which makes it all the more likely that Boris had discussed it with the big boss on his UAE trip. Although I'm not sure what deal could have been made as it seems BJ came away from that meeting with his begging bowl still empty.

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[John Barrett]

Which makes it all the more likely that Boris had discussed it with the big boss on his UAE trip. Although I'm not sure what deal could have been made as it seems BJ came away from that meeting with his begging bowl still empty.

Like some others on here, do you have to be quite so derogatory? It really isn't necessary amongst civilised people.

 

[monzer]

Like some others on here, do you have to be quite so derogatory? It really isn't necessary amongst civilised people.

What's derogatory about that phrase?

 

[The Wino]

Like some others on here, do you have to be quite so derogatory? It really isn't necessary amongst civilised people.

Don't you find similar terms used about politicians from other parties. I seem to remember a lot less polite descriptions of Dianne About and Corbyn. I did see one about " the toolmakers son" who was that about?

 

[Jamesh]

I think the board members, senior management, HR, lawyers, should be marched out of the headquarters and be stripped of company cars, laptops, mobile phones etc and told they are being replaced by cheaper labour....

 

[funflair]

There are obviously a lot of clever and knowledgeable people on here who would have done things differently faced with a business that was loosing £100m per year.

What would you have done/do though?

Obviously by boycotting P&O ferries we are going to help the situation.

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[Richard n Ann]

I'd have told them their wages are going to have to drop along with the managements. It's either that or go out of business.

 

[The Wino]

I'd have told them their wages are going to have to drop along with the managements. It's either that or go out of business.

If they would have I think the unions first reaction would be to threaten a strike. I'm effect the employee's have been offered that option as they can take a job through the agency on lower wages.

 

[bobnick]

I think paying massive dividends to shareholders knowing the financial situation is in dire straights is totally wrong. But what do i know

 

[The Wino]

I think paying massive dividends to shareholders knowing the financial situation is in dire straights is totally wrong. But what do i know

What was the dividend percentage?. It might be they had to pay some sort of divided to prop the share price up.

 

[Jonny1953]

I think paying massive dividends to shareholders knowing the financial situation is in dire straights is totally wrong. But what do i know

I'm not an accountant, but I thought that dividends are paid out of profits after corporation tax has been paid, if the company are declaring a loss then there will be no funds for dividends

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[John Barrett]

I'm not an accountant, but I thought that dividends are paid out of profits after corporation tax has been paid, if the company are declaring a loss then there will be no funds for dividends

From Gov.uk

Dividends​

A dividend is a payment a company can make to shareholders if it has made a profit.

You cannot count dividends as business costs when you work out your Corporation Tax.

Your company must not pay out more in dividends than its available profits from current and previous financial years.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Think it's the parent company that made the profit

 

[EuroTrotters]

I'm not an accountant, but I thought that dividends are paid out of profits after corporation tax has been paid, if the company are declaring a loss then there will be no funds for dividends

No, dividends can be paid regardless of profit. But when end of year comes, corporation tax is due on profits

 

[EuroTrotters]

What I cannot understand about this staffing situation is is this.

How much are P&O going to save on salaries . I can understand seasonal shifts in labour requirements but.

As an example , when I worked for Shell in the 80’s. We took on agency staff. No contracts, but we paid the Agency £20 per hour, the staff got £10 from it !.

 

[John Barrett]

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