P&O Ferries told to stay in port

[dash300]

I wonder if there is some Russian money in the controlling company and is pulling some strings ?

The secrecy, timing and method is very Russian!

 

[DuxDeluxe]

The secrecy, timing and method is very Russian!

Nothing Like a good conspiracy theory, is there

 

[PhilandMena]

I was watching a news report this morning that said even if the employer has broken UK employment laws there is nothing to be gained by taken them to court as they are paying redundancy packages to all staff they have let go and its highly unlikely a court would award them more than they are receiving from the employer. The reporter went on to say their contracts are based in Jersey and its a bit of a legal minefield. A lot of noise is being made but at the end of the day these people have been let go and there not much can be done about it.

 

[Gellyneck]

I'm probably wrong (as usual) but is redundancy not the role is no longer needed rather than the employee? If so, how can they lay off 800 folk and then employ 800 new folk in the same roles?

 

[MichaelT]

I'm probably wrong (as usual) but is redundancy not the role is no longer needed rather than the employee? If so, how can they lay off 800 folk and then employ 800 new folk in the same roles?

They are not employing 800 more they are using an agency to staff the ships so outsourcing a service or similar I guess.

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[PhilandMena]

They are not employing 800 more they are using an agency to staff the ships so outsourcing a service or similar I guess.

You can bet they have this all planned out and in compliance with what ever law covers there activities.

 

[Gellyneck]

They are not employing 800 more they are using an agency to staff the ships so outsourcing a service or similar I guess.

But if they are outsourcing do TUPE regulations not come into force?

 

[MichaelT]

But if they are outsourcing do TUPE regulations not come into force?

They are not outsourcing the job but a service to run the ships so I guess this circumnavigates that but not an expert. As PhilandMena said above they are paying well over the odds for redundancy so any court action is likely to fail plus it will be long drawn out. I think its a terrible thing to do and a way to run a company however there will be some employees rubbing their hands, some may want to go with the agancy and others may take it as an opportunity to move on but there will be some who are devastated and know nothing else. its an ill wind and all that

 

[PhilandMena]

They are not outsourcing the job but a service to run the ships so I guess this circumnavigates that but not an expert. As PhilandMena said above they are paying well over the odds for redundancy so any court action is likely to fail plus it will be long drawn out. I think its a terrible thing to do and a way to run a company however there will be some employees rubbing their hands, some may want to go with the agancy and others may take it as an opportunity to move on but there will be some who are devastated and know nothing else. its an ill wind and all that

I did not say they are paying well over the odds for redundancy. What I said is they are paying redundancy packages to all staff they have let go. Its no big deal but needed to be corrected.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

You can bet they have this all planned out and in compliance with what ever law covers there activities.

It will have been planned and run past the legal eagles time and again literally for months beforehand

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[Ivory55]

Makes one realise why staff at firms have little or no interest as they can be got rid of just like that regardless of how hard they work.

 

[gpat]

But if they are outsourcing do TUPE regulations not come into force?

If you transfer the staff to another employer they do. If not then obviously not.

 

[Brains]

It will have been planned and run past the legal eagles time and again literally for months beforehand

As you say, I'm sure what P&O have done will not actually be illegal.
The method they have done it, is however highly immoral.

I doubt even Stephen Nee, the HR bod that delivered the message, would say it was the best way to do it.
That video will be used for years to come as a training tool for HR managers of how not to sack staff.

Henceforth P&O will be know as P*ss Off!
I will make a personal promise not to use the company again.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

The method they have done it, is however highly immoral.

Could not agree more. P&O (when it used to be a proper shipping company) did the same in 1985. I saw it coming and left to take a job as a marine surveyor in the mid east

 

[busby]

Two threads running on this issue.
I've just watched it on ITV news. All staff are being made redundant and replaced with agency staff. So! After that announcement, how long before they resume services ? They must have a plan to minimise disruption and I guess Permanente staff are let go over time so replacement staff can be trained and replaced without disruption. I thought P&O were French but clearly not as this would not bee allowed to happen, must be be a UK company.

How can the staff be redundant if the jobs are still there..Its mass sacking..BUSBY.

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[dash300]

Also not good linkage for for Carnivals P&O Cruise business! Different company I know but it's not a good PR look!

 

[busby]

Well London Underground drivers are on £56k plus bonuses, 44 day annual leave and retire at 60 on a healthy pension, heaven knows what a ship driver is on, so no wonder they are trying to drive down costs!

Cross channel ferry Skipper about 70k a year,,BUSBY..

 

[dash300]

Cross channel ferry Skipper about 70k a year,,BUSBY..

Yes thanks Busby that was pointed out a few posts back and that to me is fair remuneration for the job. However following lights on a rail is a quantum leap away in terms of knowledge skill and responsibility!

 

[BikerGraham]

As I have said on a number of times over the years, if a company wants rid of you then you are gone.
All they have to do is decide is how much they are prepared to pay and this is based on the method and there therefore expediency that they employ to get rid of you.

Morals aren’t always a consideration, especially where the bean counters are concerned

 

[Ivory55]

As I have said on a number of times over the years, if a company wants rid of you then you are gone.
All they have to do is decide is how much they are prepared to pay and this is based on the method and there therefore expediency that they employ to get rid of you.

Morals aren’t always a consideration, especially where the bean counters are concerned

Yes we are all just numbers on a payroll, nothing more, nothing less

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[BikerGraham]

Interesting just received an email from P&O Cruises which specifically makes the point that they are a separate company to P&O Ferries

I am not surprised

 

[BikerGraham]

Yes we are all just numbers on a payroll, nothing more, nothing less

Unfortunately that is so true and no matter how committed we may be.

I found that out the hard way a number of years ago so set up my own consultancy. My current boss isn’t too bad

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Also not good linkage for for Carnivals P&O Cruise business! Different company I know but it's not a good PR look!

Yes, Carnival have been loud and clear to distance themselves and quite right; they are a well run company - I really liked them as a client. Not at all related to there being a Hooters just down the road from their offices and my hotel. So a friend tells me, anyway…..

 

[John Barrett]

Yes, Carnival have been loud and clear to distance themselves and quite right; they are a well run company - I really liked them as a client. Not at all related to there being a Hooters just down the road from their offices and my hotel. So a friend tells me, anyway…..

Good to hear you making a clean breast about your relationship!

 

[monzer]

Is this really necessary, A foreign company with ships registered abroad, time to get over Brexit and why hide it using another term

Maybe not brexit related although one key quote from the whole brexit era was to make it harder for British workers to be 'undercut by cheaper labour'.

Regardless, 800 people losing their job from a Dubai owned firm the morning after Boris is in UAE with his begging bowl is unsettling at the very least.

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[Spriddler]

... there will be some employees rubbing their hands, some may want to go with the agancy........

A good few years ago a pal and several others were made redundant by BT. They were well pleased at the payment. Some retired early and others carried on doing the same work for BT but on contract through an agency and at better pay .
Some didn't need to work full time due to the redundancy lump sum and went off on several foreign holidays throughout the year.

A similar thing ocurred when the coal mines closed and the miners received redundancy payments. When I was at the DTI the huge retraining fund that was set up was hardly dented because so many miners retired on the money, or semi-retired and did casual cash jobs.
The Learning Skills section of my division was tasked with getting rid of that financial 'embarrassment' but the majority of miners didn't want to know about retraining, partly because they had the redundancy cushion but more that once retrained they would have to relocate
(generally to far more expensive housing areas) to find employment appropriate to their new skills. Much effort was being put in to be able to re-allocate the funds for other Gov't projects but there were legal restrictions which were never resolved in the 4 years that I was there.

 

[Jonny1953]

What P&O Ferries are doing here is cancelling the contracts of 800 UK and Irish seafarers and taking on agency staff which will make a huge saving on wages, pensions etc, shipping companies have been doing this for more than 40 years now, the thing about this is the underhanded way that P&O are doing things

Maybe not brexit related although one key quote from the whole brexit era was to make it harder for British workers to be 'undercut by cheaper labour'.

Regardless, 800 people losing their job from a Dubai owned firm the morning after Boris is in UAE with his begging bowl is unsettling at the very least.

I agree about the way P&O have handled things as I stated in my post #160 but why make this political and try to apportion blame on the PM. This must have been arranged weeks or maybe even months ago, you cant just shake a tree and get qualified seafarers to man the ferries.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

you cant just shake a tree and get qualified seafarers to man the ferries.

Yes, this was planned months ago - I had to do a similar exercise in the Mid East early ‘90’s and the biggest issue was confidentiality-especially head office interfering.** Some crews that I have seen on my various surveys, I sometimes wonder……… I just marvel at how some actually got their tickets…

Having said that, ferries are a different kettle of fish, as are passenger ships (Captain in-the-knickers-of-dancer in the Shittino excepted). High standards of ship handling are required. I just wonder how they are going to get around the pilotage requirements both in home port and destinations?

**Had to be done. We were losing money hand over fist, but found decent jobs for a lot of them

 

[Jonny1953]

Yes, this was planned months ago - I had to do a similar exercise in the Mid East early ‘90’s and the biggest issue was confidentiality-especially head office interfering.** Some crews that I have seen on my various surveys, I sometimes wonder……… I just marvel at how some actually got their tickets…

In 1977 I needed a 2nd engineers ticket for a Monrovian registered bulker, it cost me £1.50 from the Liberian Embassy in Liverpool, maybe certain dubious flag states still operate like this (I actually held a UK ticket at the time)

Having said that, ferries are a different kettle of fish, as are passenger ships (Captain in-the-knickers-of-dancer in the Shittino excepted). High standards of ship handling are required. I just wonder how they are going to get around the pilotage requirements both in home port and destinations?

I was Engineering Manager for a ferry company for 10 years, although quite a bit smaller than P&O all of the Captains held a PEC for Cowes and Southampton but I don't think that Dover will hand these out without a fair amount of experience to the new crews

 

[gpat]

Is this a technicality. Can they sack you (cancel your contract) but allow you to reapply for your job on new terms and conditions.

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