P&O Ferries told to stay in port

[joe and sue]

I recall as youngish engineer working Saturdays @ time and half and Sundays at Double time, this helped to pay for my mortgage, and other things at the time I was on around £17K the pay at P&O is stated at £5.50 an hour which for a 40 hour week is £11K per year even with overtime you would be hard pushed to get to £17K. the benefits you mention are standard for most who work all of course Food.

I have worked in Offices which are heated, have had Biscuits and Coffee tea's etc all at the companies expense. Many firms used to provide Luncheon vouchers (OMG). The poor individuals on £11K what sort of retirement are they going to have.....certainly not one with a Motorhome let alone a place they can call thier own.

When I employ a Labourer I pay them £200 per day, I have a good group of guys who I can rely on, when one had an accident recently and there was breakage on a customer's property I was called immediately, they told me what had happened and were truly mortified they thought it was going to cost them personally £500, I acquired the replacement for £180, helped fix the damage and split the cost with them, so they did not lose a days wage, this is called ethical employment.

Unfortunately not many like you left !!
When I was in the position of employing people, I had the same business ethic as you, but still some people of a certain background tried to take advantage !!
Do you want any labour at the moment, 2 days a week would be OK for me at that rate !!

 

[2657]

I recall as youngish engineer working Saturdays @ time and half and Sundays at Double time, this helped to pay for my mortgage, and other things at the time I was on around £17K the pay at P&O is stated at £5.50 an hour which for a 40 hour week is £11K per year even with overtime you would be hard pushed to get to £17K. the benefits you mention are standard for most who work all of course Food.

I have worked in Offices which are heated, have had Biscuits and Coffee tea's etc all at the companies expense. Many firms used to provide Luncheon vouchers (OMG). The poor individuals on £11K what sort of retirement are they going to have.....certainly not one with a Motorhome let alone a place they can call thier own.

When I employ a Labourer I pay them £200 per day, I have a good group of guys who I can rely on, when one had an accident recently and there was breakage on a customer's property I was called immediately, they told me what had happened and were truly mortified they thought it was going to cost them personally £500, I acquired the replacement for £180, helped fix the damage and split the cost with them, so they did not lose a days wage, this is called ethical employment.

Gi'uz a job

 

[Coolcats]

Unfortunately not many like you left !!
When I was in the position of employing people, I had the same business ethic as you, but still some people of a certain background tried to take advantage !!
Do you want any labour at the moment, 2 days a week would be OK for me at that rate !!

Thanks for that, the thing is people will treat others as they are treated, Lording it over others and being money grabbing is short term and when the Boss gets in to a fix the Boss will find there is no one there to help. The Boss then gets angry shouts and abuses staff and that is what we see today. I have a hunch that the 'Old style Management' I grew up with had it right, they understood people and in the main things went well, I have worked late on many occasions like a lot of people have but when the management occasionally says take the wife out for a meal give us the bill and thank her for us keeping you it does go a heck of a long way. There was another time when working for a Bank and a complex job went well the IT director came in and gave us all a bottle of Champaign to take home and share. The list goes on, so when I see poor management and some justifying really poor wages my heart sinks, I just want to live in a caring and civil society, one can dream and whilst I cant offer you a couple of days im sure you may find someone out there who will value and pay you for your time.

 

[Ivory55]

Unfortunately not many like you left !!
When I was in the position of employing people, I had the same business ethic as you, but still some people of a certain background tried to take advantage !!
Do you want any labour at the moment, 2 days a week would be OK for me at that rate !!

My mind thought it would be great, but my body says otherwise. Haha

 

[Coolcats]

Gi'uz a job

Oh No what have I started seriously though there are jobs like this out there

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[Jonny1953]

I recall as youngish engineer working Saturdays @ time and half and Sundays at Double time, this helped to pay for my mortgage, and other things at the time I was on around £17K the pay at P&O is stated at £5.50 an hour which for a 40 hour week is £11K per year even with overtime you would be hard pushed to get to £17K. the benefits you mention are standard for most who work all of course Food.

I have worked in Offices which are heated, have had Biscuits and Coffee tea's etc all at the companies expense. Many firms used to provide Luncheon vouchers (OMG). The poor individuals on £11K what sort of retirement are they going to have.....certainly not one with a Motorhome let alone a place they can call thier own.

When I employ a Labourer I pay them £200 per day, I have a good group of guys who I can rely on, when one had an accident recently and there was breakage on a customer's property I was called immediately, they told me what had happened and were truly mortified they thought it was going to cost them personally £500, I acquired the replacement for £180, helped fix the damage and split the cost with them, so they did not lose a days wage, this is called ethical employment.

If you look at the ITF rates for a Chief Engineer it works out at approx £32,000pa, okay, less than half of what the P&O Chief Engineers have been on but still a lot more than the figures that the media like to quote.

 

[John Barrett]

Unfortunately not many like you left !!

In 1993 I was the Production Director/General Manager at BDG Creslite in West Bromwich, helping to restore its fortunes. After four months of hard work getting the factory back to profit I decided to take a break abroad, and let it be known at my regular shop floor meeting. One of the guys said "Can I borrow your car then? Mine's broken down!" You should have seen the guy's face when I gave him the keys to my Company car, a Glacier Blue 5 Series BMW! It went down quite well with the lads...

 

[TDub49]

This government would not allow that to happen they are the friend of such people not the workers. Brexit allowed this to happen it couldn’t happen to EU workers.

Expecting a government that openly debated the possibility of breaking international law, it is hard to imagine that it will take this piece of corporate skulduggery much more seriously than making a few grumpy noises about it.

 

[John Barrett]

Expecting a government that openly debated the possibility of breaking international law, it is hard to imagine that it will take this piece of corporate skulduggery much more seriously than making a few grumpy noises about it.

There is apparently no such thing as international law, merely 'Convention'.

 

[mitzimad]

p and o ceo admits they broke the law and would do the same again surely that is contempt . if i was before a beak and admitted to law breaking and stated id do the same again i would probably get a custodial sentence

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[DuxDeluxe]

Given that he has admitted flouting the law, perhaps a conviction and a bit of jail time might focus the minds of other CEO's that consider a similar course of action.

The company broke the law which may not cover him personally

 

[cyberyacht]

He was the one who took the decision. Surely that makes him culpable.

 

[John Barrett]

He was the one who took the decision. Surely that makes him culpable.

May I suggest that he was the one who did as he was told by DP? "I was just obeying orders"...

 

[cyberyacht]

That didn't cut much ice at Nuremberg

 

[DuxDeluxe]

If you look at the ITF rates for a Chief Engineer it works out at approx £32,000pa, okay, less than half of what the P&O Chief Engineers have been on but still a lot more than the figures that the media like to quote.

That is employing a servant, cook, gardener and driver salary in Pakistan or Philippines….. Don’t forget that there are also ovies to add on top of that

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[DuxDeluxe]

He was the one who took the decision. Surely that makes him culpable.

May I suggest that he was the one who did as he was told by DP? "I was just obeying orders"...

It depends what the law says. This is a corporate issue. The company can expect (and have no doubt factored in) a huge fine. He will in any case be indemnified by his employers in the same way Trafigura indemnified the criminal (I know him) who made the waste dumping happen

 

[Coolcats]

If you look at the ITF rates for a Chief Engineer it works out at approx £32,000pa, okay, less than half of what the P&O Chief Engineers have been on but still a lot more than the figures that the media like to quote.

Ah OK let’s cut trained, qualified and experienced peoples salaries by half across the country and it’s all OK. It’s appalling there is is nothing ethical about this and indefensible.

Remember Herald of free Enterprise we want safe and well trained crews if costs another £100 a ticket I would rather pay that than be a on an unsafe ship.

P&O ferry detained over crew training concerns, says coastguard agency​

 

[The Wino]

Ah OK let’s cut trained, qualified and experienced peoples salaries by half across the country and it’s all OK. It’s appalling there is is nothing ethical about this and indefensible.

Remember Herald of free Enterprise we want safe and well trained crews if costs another £100 a ticket I would rather pay that than be a on an unsafe ship.

P&O ferry detained over crew training concerns, says coastguard agency​

But wasn't the Herald of Free Enterprise British crewed? I think we sometimes assume better paid or costs more means its necessarily better.

 

[Ivory55]

But wasn't the Herald of Free Enterprise British crewed? I think we sometimes assume better paid or costs more means its necessarily better.

I and many others take less interest if the money is less, it’s how it works

 

[Coolcats]

But wasn't the Herald of Free Enterprise British crewed? I think we sometimes assume better paid or costs more means its necessarily better.

It was and it had poor working practices, my point is that we want people to have a salary that they and their family can live on. We want trained, qualified, focussed, safe staff. We do not want people who are worried about how they are going to feed their family or when the debt collectors are going to arrive at their home when they should be focussing on their job. When they get to an age they retire they should have a good retirement.

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[Happy Jim]

Trouble is they’ve broken employment law “only”, impact is that individuals can take P&O to an industrial tribunal and seek damages……which are capped at LESS than P&O are offering as a settlement package. Sucks, but that’s the way our emp law is created. Reputational car crash though!

 

[The Wino]

It was and it had poor working practices, my point is that we want people to have a salary that they and their family can live on. We want trained, qualified, focussed, safe staff. We do not want people who are worried about how they are going to feed their family or when the debt collectors are going to arrive at their home when they should be focussing on their job. When they get to an age they retire they should have a good retirement.

I agree on all those things being very desirable for everyone in fact I have long said that anyone ought to be able to buy a civil service pension from the government with the same increases and guarantees at a price that funds it's provision. It would give everyone the facility to have a secure retirement and the not insignificant cost would make it clearer what the value of the pension really is. The question is if all those aims are applied to all workers in the UK whether our economy is able to support them ina free trade world.

 

[Coolcats]

Trouble is they’ve broken employment law “only”, impact is that individuals can take P&O to an industrial tribunal and seek damages……which are capped at LESS than P&O are offering as a settlement package. Sucks, but that’s the way our emp law is created. Reputational car crash though!

Absolutely spot on a Ratner moment one could say.

 

[MichaelT]

I see on the BBC one of the ships has been held in port because of safety issues and crew training/familiarisation.

 

[Jonny1953]

Ah OK let’s cut trained, qualified and experienced peoples salaries by half across the country and it’s all OK. It’s appalling there is is nothing ethical about this and indefensible.

Remember Herald of free Enterprise we want safe and well trained crews if costs another £100 a ticket I would rather pay that than be a on an unsafe ship.

P&O ferry detained over crew training concerns, says coastguard agency​

I hope you don't think that I am in any way condoning P&O Ferries actions, because I am most definitely not, I am just pointing out that the media always try to make things look worse, if people believed what they are saying here then they would wrongly assume that highly qualified people are on £1.80 per hour.

I fully understand the training and experience required for competent personnel to operate these ferries and they should be remunerated correctly, I got my unlimited chief engineers ticket in 1980 and when I left the MN in 1983 my salary was only slightly less that what the ITF rates are now, so I am not saying that they are right but my criticism is of the media

Edit, salary in 1983 was nearer two thirds

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[John Barrett]

Absolutely spot on a Ratner moment one could say.

'It's a Load of Crap?' Surely not!

 

[John Barrett]

 

[Langtoftlad]

Brexit allowed this to happen it couldn’t happen to EU workers.

Sorry, but this is absolute tosh.

 

[The Wino]

Sorry, but this is absolute tosh.

It might have made little difference apart from possibly delaying the process. But this action is a good example of what happens in a totally unhindered free economy where if it's cheaper somewhere else or from somewhere else that's where the money and jobs go. As we see more free trade deals if they are arrived at we should expect jobs to go to other countries if they can produce cheaper. I think in today's world it's tempting to look at the short term effect on wages from the ending of free movement of labour as that has largely happened and it has resulted in better pay for low skilled jobs due to labour shortages. As free trade deals arrive we should expect imports to rise pretty quickly as our manufacturing now has higher overheads and without import tariffs theres bound to be an export of jobs. I see no efforts to counteract that by increasing the workforce skills.

 

[nicholsong]

This government would not allow that to happen they are the friend of such people not the workers. Brexit allowed this to happen it couldn’t happen to EU workers.

But they were not on EU contracts.

Lots of ships dock in UK ports with crews on neither UK nor EU contracts. - are the UK government responsible for policing the crew conditions? I think not.

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