P&O Ferries told to stay in port

[Nanniemate]

I would be thinking twice before taking my family onto onto a a 'roll on roll off roll over ferry',
Experienced crews have made mistakes, what could a poorly trained and inexperienced crew do if a mishap took place

 

[Coolcats]

But they were not on EU contracts.

Lots of ships dock in UK ports with crews on neither UK nor EU contracts. - are the UK government responsible for policing the crew conditions? I think not.

But you do expect U.K. citizens not to be placed on the salary lower than the living wage

 

[DuxDeluxe]

After a whole lifetime of working in the maritime industry all over the globe with many crew nationalities, I can state categorically that these crews will be well motivated, well paid in their own country and generally well off. Training? Yes all well qualified and current on certification and appropriate training. The laziest crews I have sailed with have unfortunately been NUS crews; the very best? Pakistan from up the Khyber pass area on numerous ships.

These ship management companies have the compliance spotlight on them by numerous bodies and in UK an average of 4-6 a month are detained for deficiency rectification. Noted that PSC have, as expected by anyone connected with the industry, then not permitted the sailing of the P&O ferries until they are well enough trained to comply with regulations. They will endure frequent PSC inspections into the future as well.

If you read the Herald of free enterprise report, it is clear that despite everyone being highly paid, the working and management practices were downright sloppy. I used it as an example in a paper I presented once at a conference. Ship design has moved on and so has compliance and working practice.

The Pakistani bosun on my last ship employed a cook, cleaner and gardener on his meagre pay and was astonished that had none of these.

As repeatedly said before, I do not in any way condone the actions but am not the slightest bit surprised about it either and people simply cannot compare UK salaries with overseas ones

 

[DuxDeluxe]

But you do expect U.K. citizens not to be placed on the salary lower than the living wage

Where did he say or imply that?

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I would be thinking twice before taking my family onto onto a a 'roll on roll off roll over ferry',
Experienced crews have made mistakes, what could a poorly trained and inexperienced crew do if a mishap took place

Those ships will not sail until the Port State Control have thoroughly vetted the ships, staff qualifications and training, staff competence and management procedures.

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[Nanniemate]

Those ships will not sail until the Port State Control have thoroughly vetted the ships, staff qualifications and training, staff competence and management procedures.

I think that many of them maybe stopped in port for 'safety reasons' the legality of the sacking and the attitude of the management may have rattled a few cages, they not be able to touch them under UK law for the approach used but they can get to P&O in other ways the plot thickens ...............

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I think that many of them maybe stopped in port for 'safety reasons' the legality of the sacking and the attitude of the management may have rattled a few cages, they not be able to touch them under UK law for the approach used but they can get to P&O in other ways the plot thickens ...............

PSC are tough on everybody. No compliance. No move. And they know exactly what they are looking at, unlike some PSC inspections I have seen

 

[Tony50]

After a whole lifetime of working in the maritime industry all over the globe with many crew nationalities, I can state categorically that these crews will be well motivated, well paid in their own country and generally well off. Training? Yes all well qualified and current on certification and appropriate training. The laziest crews I have sailed with have unfortunately been NUS crews; the very best? Pakistan from up the Khyber pass area on numerous ships.

These ship management companies have the compliance spotlight on them by numerous bodies and in UK an average of 4-6 a month are detained for deficiency rectification. Noted that PSC have, as expected by anyone connected with the industry, then not permitted the sailing of the P&O ferries until they are well enough trained to comply with regulations. They will endure frequent PSC inspections into the future as well.

If you read the Herald of free enterprise report, it is clear that despite everyone being highly paid, the working and management practices were downright sloppy. I used it as an example in a paper I presented once at a conference. Ship design has moved on and so has compliance and working practice.

The Pakistani bosun on my last ship employed a cook, cleaner and gardener on his meagre pay and was astonished that had none of these.

As repeatedly said before, I do not in any way condone the actions but am not the slightest bit surprised about it either and people simply cannot compare UK salaries with overseas ones

Talking about NUS workers unfortunately the UK workers in lots of cases never give good service unless there are about 4 million on the dole and those that are employed are in fear of losing their jobs, it's sad .

 

[Coolcats]

Where did he say or imply that?

If you read what was written in terms of non U.K. EU contracts all I did was say “ But you do expect U.K. citizens not to be placed on the salary lower than the living wage” and to add to that why would Anyone support the actions of P&O

 

[2657]

Talking about NUS workers unfortunately the UK workers in lots of cases never give good service unless there are about 4 million on the dole and those that are employed are in fear of losing their jobs, it's sad .

I think Nissan in Sunderland might disagree.

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[spitfire]

This outrage from the U.K. government re the P&O salary pay to its new workers is the same government who don’t or didn’t pay the same pension to Gurkha soldiers because it would make them too rich in their own country where salaries are much lower . Somewhat hypocritical

 

[DuxDeluxe]

If you read what was written in terms of non U.K. EU contracts all I did was say “ But you do expect U.K. citizens not to be placed on the salary lower than the living wage” and to add to that why would Anyone support the actions of P&O

Thanks, I must have missed it, or misread it

 

[John Barrett]

This outrage from the U.K. government re the P&O salary pay to its new workers is the same government who don’t or didn’t pay the same pension to Gurkha soldiers because it would make them too rich in their own country where salaries are much lower . Somewhat hypocritical

I don't remember hearing about African governments paying the pensions of former mercenaries -English ones included- and offering free housing as well?

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I think Nissan in Sunderland might disagree.

Setting up a factory in an area where all the shipyards were closing and all the pits plus Consett steelworks were closing might have had a lot to do with it, which is why the government subsidised the building of the Nissan factory in the first place

The Nissan workers are well paid and very well looked after - one of my friends is a director of a testing company and complains that it is hard to recruit people if Nissan are taking on staff

 

[gus-lopez]

I don't remember hearing about African governments paying the pensions of former mercenaries -English ones included- and offering free housing as well?

That is just offensive. They were in no way merenaries.

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[John Barrett]

That is just offensive. They were in no way merenaries.

I was a serving soldier and met many Ghurkas. Mercenaries by their own admittance. They took the money and sent it home to their wives, served their time and then went home. I have nothing against them, but it is a subject I feel strongly about.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

As Peter Hebblethwaite stated to the parliamentary committee no he did not speak to the Unions or staff about this plan

If you go to Singapore you will see a rich and prosperous country with very high living standards, low taxation and wages to suit, in an economy that caters for numerous industries on what is something similar to the Isle of Wight. It would not be a bad thing at all. The EU bleat on about it because it

Ah yes Singapore, a Fine city

View attachment 599235

Great place to visit
...but to live ?
For the masses, illusion of freedom. Told where to live.

Nobody needs Durians , some laws make sense!

 

[2657]

Setting up a factory in an area where all the shipyards were closing and all the pits plus Consett steelworks were closing might have had a lot to do with it, which is why the government subsidised the building of the Nissan factory in the first place

The Nissan workers are well paid and very well looked after - one of my friends is a director of a testing company and complains that it is hard to recruit people if Nissan are taking on staff

Exactly a decent management with good labour relations works wonders.
Makes a change from the usual adversarial management style of many UK companies.

 

[The Wino]

I suppose by that standard all British soldiers are mercinaries they all generally if on deployment financially support their families back at home then return home (which happens to be in the UK) when they finnish.

 

[The Wino]

I was a serving soldier and met many Ghurkas. Mercenaries by their own admittance. They took the money and sent it home to their wives, served their time and then went home. I have nothing against them, but it is a subject I feel strongly ab

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[The Wino]

I was a serving soldier and met many Ghurkas. Mercenaries by their own admittance. They took the money and sent it home to their wives, served their time and then went home. I have nothing against them, but it is a subject I feel strongly about.

My reply above was in response to this

 

[John Barrett]

My reply above was in response to this

OK, if you want to get serious about this:

Mercenary
NOUN
A professional soldier hired to fight for a foreign Country.

I was definitely not a mercenary...!

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Nobody needs Durians , some laws make sense!

As I said….. if you know, you know

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Exactly a decent management with good labour relations works wonders.
Makes a change from the usual adversarial management style of many UK companies.

Oh yes, the 1970’s there was a lot of “bad attitude” on both sides and some appalling management as you correctly said

 

[The Wino]

OK, if you want to get serious about this:

Mercenary
NOUN
A professional soldier hired to fight for a foreign Country.

I was definitely not a mercenary...!

So mercinaries and British soldiers only differ in the country they return to after fighting. I thought mercinaries were looked down on I now can't see why. I must say that soldiers I feel really sorry for are conscripts from whatever country as they're often stuck fighting wars but never volunteered.

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[The Wino]

Oh yes, the 1970’s there was a lot of “bad attitude” on both sides and some appalling management as you correctly said

I blame the old boy network.

 

[Ivory55]

Oh yes, the 1970’s there was a lot of “bad attitude” on both sides and some appalling management as you correctly said

Ahh yes but we did have the summer of 76 and hosepipe bans

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I blame the old boy network

…..and many others, looking at both sides of the divide, so to speak

 

[gus-lopez]

OK, if you want to get serious about this:

Mercenary
NOUN
A professional soldier hired to fight for a foreign Country.

I was definitely not a mercenary...!

It wasn't a 'foreign country' they were part of the British Indian army before independence & before that the East India company. They have always been classed as part of the British army for which to serve requires you to be British citizen , citizen of Irish republic or from a commonwealth country with indefinite leave to remain

 

[BikerGraham]

After a whole lifetime of working in the maritime industry all over the globe with many crew nationalities, I can state categorically that these crews will be well motivated, well paid in their own country and generally well off. Training? Yes all well qualified and current on certification and appropriate training. The laziest crews I have sailed with have unfortunately been NUS crews; the very best? Pakistan from up the Khyber pass area on numerous ships.

These ship management companies have the compliance spotlight on them by numerous bodies and in UK an average of 4-6 a month are detained for deficiency rectification. Noted that PSC have, as expected by anyone connected with the industry, then not permitted the sailing of the P&O ferries until they are well enough trained to comply with regulations. They will endure frequent PSC inspections into the future as well.

If you read the Herald of free enterprise report, it is clear that despite everyone being highly paid, the working and management practices were downright sloppy. I used it as an example in a paper I presented once at a conference. Ship design has moved on and so has compliance and working practice.

The Pakistani bosun on my last ship employed a cook, cleaner and gardener on his meagre pay and was astonished that had none of these.

As repeatedly said before, I do not in any way condone the actions but am not the slightest bit surprised about it either and people simply cannot compare UK salaries with overseas ones

I believe lord justice Sheen made the comment that the organisation was riddled with the disease of sloppiness from the top down.
In all my years in health and safety. This has to be one of the most damming statements ever.

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