Number of days allowed to stay in Eurozone countries

[Tykatem]

What happens if I overstay my Schengen Visa?

The first thing to know is that now, with computerized visa checks in place across the Schengen Area, an overstayed visa never goes unnoticed. Immigration authorities have registered in their databases every person that enters and leaves, and if you overstay, even for just one day, it will be recorded. Authorities will also punish you whether your overstay beyond your Schengen Visa’s validity was intentional or unintentional. You could receive a fine, immediate deportation or even get banned from entering the Schengen Area for a period. It is also important to remember that the 90/180 day rule also applies to countries with a visa waiver agreement with the Schengen Area.
Consequences of overstaying in Schengen Zone

Each Schengen state applies different penalties for overstaying beyond your Schengen Visa’s validity, and the sanctions you will face will depend on the country you are caught in. For example, Germany is known to have the strictest immigration laws in the Schengen Area, while Greece applies heavy fines. In general, all of the member states will take action in one of the following ways.
Deportation
If you are caught staying illegally in Europe, and are not in the process of leaving of your own accord, you will face deportation. You may be deported immediately, or if caught flouting rules by taking paid work or engaging in criminality, you may be taken into custody and face a trial that could result in prison time or a fine. You will then be deported after serving your punishment. Deportation is almost always followed by further sanctions like a travel ban except in the most minor cases of overstaying your Schengen Visa’s validity.
Future travel bans for overstaying your Schengen Visa’s validity

If you face a fine or deportation, you are likely to be banned from traveling to the Schengen Area for a period of time. Even those who escape these sanctions could face a ban - while overstaying is also likely to affect your chances of getting a Schengen Visa in the future.
What fine could I face?
The most regular penalty for overstaying a Schengen Visa’s validity is a fine that will be applied by the member state where you are caught. These vary depending on each state - but will be more expensive the longer you overstay and lack mitigating circumstances.
Could I face a ban from entering the Schengen Area?
This sanction is most commonly applied to those overstaying their Schengen Visa’s validity and working or engaging in illegality. You can be banned for three years, or in some cases, even longer.
Are there ever no consequences to overstaying a Schengen Visa?
Minors or those requiring a caretaker may not face sanctions, or if you are incapacitated by an illness or injury. But in these cases, you are advised to apply for an extension.

Schengen Visa validity: How to avoid overstaying your visa - Schengen - AXA Partners

Everything you need to know about checking your Schengen Visa’s validity and not overstaying.

www.axa-schengen.com

What are the consequences of overstaying in Schengen Area? - SchengenVisaInfo.com

Getting a Schengen Visa is never easy. There are a lot of documents you will need to collect and requirements you must meet. There is the interview and then the wait for visa processing. However, once you get the visa, you feel rewarded and convinced everything was worth it. To many, the 90 days...

www.schengenvisainfo.com

.

Pete

 

[peterc10]

Oct, Nov, Dec (EU)
Jan, Feb (Maroc)
March (UK)
Apr, May, Jun (EU)
July, Aug, Sep (UK)

Obviously the travel days through EU to get to Maroc, will need to be deducted from allowance.

If you are referring to whole months that won't work. When you are travelling back to UK in March you will be exceeding your allowance for the 180 days starting in October. If you spend a full 90 days in the EU you will not be allowed in for again for another 90 days.

 

[9526]

If you are referring to whole months that won't work. When you are travelling back to UK in March you will be exceeding your allowance for the 180 days starting in October. If you spend a full 90 days in the EU you will not be allowed in for again for another 90 days.

Hence the second sentence

 

[wilsonofthewizard]

You are quite right to think that 'nothing will be done...'

Axing Freedom of Movement was the A#1 policy of the pro-Brexit side. It was the cherry on the 'Take Back Control' cake. You only have to read up on the distressing situation of many EU citizens who have made UK their homes to realise that the going has been made extremely tough for them.

It would be naive to think that EU countries would not take a dim view of this and feel entitled to a bit of tit-for-tat.

"Do the rules allow one country not to enforce it?"

The rules, as you put it, are the rules of the EU. It has to be assumed that the border controls of any Schengen area country will be the same as all others. Why would they not be? The Belgians and Danes hold the Brits dear in their hearts. They have been rescued from German military occupation twice in 50 years by Britain and her Commonwealth allies. So also the Dutch and Norwegians, in WW2.

But sadly, it is simply not sensible to imagine that DK, BE or NL border procedures will differ from any other Schengen area border controls. As you say, simple passport stamping will likely be the m.o. It goes on all over the world and used to be the case before UK joined the CM.

As things stand, the calculations are elementary. Without any other authorisation such as a long-tern visa, a Brit will be allowed 90 days in any rolling 180 in a Schengen area country. It is possibly the case that one could move to a non Schengen area country - Romania, anyone? - but the route to return to UK is entirely 'surrounded' by Schengen area countries. Transit time to and from UK must be factored into the 90 allowance.

View attachment 402132

My

Its 90 days in any 180.


So, if you go for 90 then return for 90, then go back you won’t exceed the 90/180 (as you add a day, one comes off the previous visit)

Morocco now looks a good bet for the winter, as a cpl of months there won’t count to your EU total.

We’re planning something like this ....... (If the 90/180 is enforced)

Oct, Nov, Dec (EU)
Jan, Feb (Maroc)
March (UK)
Apr, May, Jun (EU)
July, Aug, Sep (UK)

Obviously the travel days through EU to get to Maroc, will need to be deducted from allowance.

Thanks Mickyc. I see what DB means now.

 

[wilsonofthewizard]

Surely the debate is over. (fishing expedition or not).

Genuine information on the future is important to many of us.

The 90/180 day rule means that we are looking at selling our base in France as 12 months expenses for 6 months use doesn’t make sense. Touring in the motorhome the 90/180 rule is fine.

We hope to travel to France in August this year for two months then will probably return mid November for a few weeks as days this year will not count towards the 90/180 for 2021.

If DBK`s interpretation is correct, then we can continue to occupy our villa in Spain for April, May and part of June, return to UK for July, August and return to Spain for part of September and all of October and November, each year. Thus we have no need to sell.

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[MisterB]

If DBK`s interpretation is correct, then we can continue to occupy our villa in Spain for April, May and part of June, return to UK for July, August and return to Spain for part of September and all of October and November, each year. Thus we have no need to sell.

try the schengan calculator (there are a few out there in google land) and you can enter some 'test dates' to see if it works for you.

 

[gus-lopez]

You are wrong, 46,500,001 people voted which was 72.21% of the registered voters. Google it or look it up on wilkopedia

No 46,500,001 would appear to be the amount of people who had the 'right' to vote.
The actual vote was 17,410.742 =leave & 16,141,241 =remain. The total vote was 33,551,983
According to here;
https://www.electoralcommission.org...-referendum/results-and-turnout-eu-referendum

that is 72,21% of "there" amount considered as having the right to vote.
I think there is something wrong with the figures somewhere as 47,587,254 voted at the 2019 General election & that was classed as only67% of the electorate.By 'electorate ' I assume they mean entitled to vote?

The actual figures are
17,410.742 voted Leave
16,141,241 voted remain
12,948.018 Did not bother voting
18,099,999 Entitled who were entitled to vote are not on th electoral register.

 

[maison]

Tykatem
Thanks for the info, however the first paragraph refers to “overstaying a Visa”.
We currently don’t require a Visa for travel to the EU.

For the last fourteen years, every year, we have entered France on the 31st March and returned to the U.K. on 30th September.

That’s six months or pretty right on 180 days continually in France. We have never been queried, fined, punished or contacted in any way.

It may well become the case post Brexit, however when Visas May become necessary.

I will read the info as pertinent to travel post 31st December 2020, unless things change.

 

[emjaiuk]

Tykatem
I will read the info as pertinent to travel post 31st December 2020, unless things change.

Surely that's the whole point of this thread

 

[maison]

Surely that's the whole point of this thread

You are correct, my mistake. The thread is about travel after 2020.

The usual thread wander which included Brexit, non-European countries etc led to my confusing the thread with a previous one.

My bad!

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[wilsonofthewizard]

try the schengan calculator (there are a few out there in google land) and you can enter some 'test dates' to see if it works for you.

Thanks Mr B.
Just tried a calculator and it is not programmed as per DBK`s brain.

 

[busby]

No 46,500,001 would appear to be the amount of people who had the 'right' to vote.
The actual vote was 17,410.742 =leave & 16,141,241 =remain. The total vote was 33,551,983
According to here;
https://www.electoralcommission.org...-referendum/results-and-turnout-eu-referendum

that is 72,21% of "there" amount considered as having the right to vote.
I think there is something wrong with the figures somewhere as 47,587,254 voted at the 2019 General election & that was classed as only67% of the electorate.By 'electorate ' I assume they mean entitled to vote?

The actual figures are
17,410.742 voted Leave
16,141,241 voted remain
12,948.018 Did not bother voting
18,099,999 Entitled who were entitled to vote are not on th electoral register.

That is history now..its done and dusted,,bit like marriage for better or worse.BUSBY.

 

[Tykatem]

.

 

[Casper46]

Surely the debate is over. (fishing expedition or not).

Genuine information on the future is important to many of us.

The 90/180 day rule means that we are looking at selling our base in France as 12 months expenses for 6 months use doesn’t make sense. Touring in the motorhome the 90/180 rule is fine.

We hope to travel to France in August this year for two months then will probably return mid November for a few weeks as days this year will not count towards the 90/180 for 2021.

Same as yourselves, our French house is on the market. There is little chance of a reduction in taxes even though we will not be allowed to come to the house. We are going back to UK next week, then September to November back to the house unless someone buys it, if so we may be busy moving.

 

[Tykatem]

Tykatem
Thanks for the info, however the first paragraph refers to “overstaying a Visa”.
We currently don’t require a Visa for travel to the EU.

Correct, but that's about to change!

Therefore it is likely that UK citizens will not Broken Link Removed like many other nationalities. On February 1, 2019, the European Council said: "EU ambassadors today agreed that, following Brexit, UK citizens coming to the Schengen area for a short stay (90 days in any 180 days) should be granted visa-free travel."
However, from late 2022 onwards, visitors from countries with visa-free agreements with the EU (including the UK)will not be able to enter the Schengen Area with only their passports. The EU Commission has confirmed that UK citizens will need to pay a fee to visit Europe and will need to Broken Link Removed before setting off.

Last update: June 2, 2020

Broken Link Removed

Pete

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[maison]

Correct, but that's about to change!

Therefore it is likely that UK citizens will not Broken Link Removed like many other nationalities. On February 1, 2019, the European Council said: "EU ambassadors today agreed that, following Brexit, UK citizens coming to the Schengen area for a short stay (90 days in any 180 days) should be granted visa-free travel."
However, from late 2022 onwards, visitors from countries with visa-free agreements with the EU (including the UK)will not be able to enter the Schengen Area with only their passports. The EU Commission has confirmed that UK citizens will need to pay a fee to visit Europe and will need to Broken Link Removed before setting off.

Last update: June 2, 2020

Broken Link Removed

Pete

Thanks again for the post.

Looks like our decision to sell up in France is a good one.

I only hope that the U.K. Government makes it clear that such a charge will be reciprocal. It will depend on how much the charge is and how complicated the EU make the process. Perhaps we will learn more about our own country on our future travels.

 

[Chrisvh]

We have known about ETIAS since 2016. The UK was involved in formulating the initial proposals, prior to the referendum in June 2016. So it should not come as too much of a surprise. The main declarations involve infectious diseases and criminal convictions. Sounds reasonable to me. We did vote to reduce freedom of movement.

 

[bobandjanie]

To get the maximum out of your 90 day's, you need to enter schengen as soon as possible after midnight, and exit as close to midnight as possible, because a day is a day, and a late crossing cost you a day.
We have the same rules. Bob.

 

[Tribbtravs]

Hopefully the Schengen will stretch to all the Celtic nations in a couple of years and we can be free of unelected bureaucrats telling us what to do.

 

[DIY campervan]

You only have to come back for 90 days. In round numbers you could travel March, April and May then return to the UK for June, July and August before setting off again in September.

Alternatively you could go for a week then return for a week and repeat ad infinitum. This works with any time period up to a maximum of 90 days,. For example go for 30 days, return for 30 then repeat.

I’m sure once the EU and Britain have duked it out, it will be 6 months or longer. If we start with WTO then 90 day but it will get better and longer as the negotiation progress.

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[klaatu]

Drove through Schengen today. Didn’t stay long. Amused me somewhat.

 

[wilsonofthewizard]

Thanks again for the post.

Looks like our decision to sell up in France is a good one.

I only hope that the U.K. Government makes it clear that such a charge will be reciprocal. It will depend on how much the charge is and how complicated the EU make the process. Perhaps we will learn more about our own country on our future travels.

I too thought that we would have to sell our villa in Spain, but after considering what DBK said earlier and consulting a published Schengen Calendar, I have come to the view that we can stay in the Schengen area for 76 days continously from part April,and all of May and June, return to UK for whole of July and August and then return to Schengen area for another 76 continous days, part September and all of October and November. This gives a total of 152 days in, less 62 days out, resulting in 90 days within Schengen.
This is broadly what we do now, so in effect there is no real impact.

 

[Hilewaychile]

Maybe so. but you say we are losing "freedom of movement".
We are not to be fair 90/180 days for the vast majority would be a dream. 2 weeks are the norm

It may be a dream to stay away for 90 days but there is no getting away from the fact that the British people are losing the right of Freedom of Movement within the EU. This is not some sort of 'golden holiday entitlement' dished up by Brussels. It is one of the 4 pillars of the Constitution of the EU.

Freedom of Movement has had a beneficial side-effect on those wishing to be somewhere in the EU for months, other than their home country - snow-birds in Spain, for example. But it was included in the key principles to allow for EU citizens to 'follow the jobs'.

At the heart of the European Union sit four key principles: the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour. The “four freedoms” were enshrined in the 1957 Treaty of Rome and reinforced in the Single European Act in 1986, the 1992 Maastricht treaty and the Lisbon treaty of 2007.

Rejecting FoM was a central theme of the pro-Brexit campaign under the slogan, 'Take Back Control'. Make of that what you will. The idea was to cut off the ability of anyone not British to come to UK to 'follow the jobs'. In the same way as FoM had a bonus for snow-birds and the like, 'Take Back Control' has now ended that.

 

[Hilewaychile]

It's going to be very difficult for any border controller to do anything, I suspect it will all pass by with a gallic shrug and no more than that.

Maybe you are right. Passport control will see your British passport and assume you are a British citizen. If you are, you have lost FoM along with the rest of us. You may have formal entitlement to residency in another EU country. Come 01/01/2021 that will entitle you to the 90/180 ration away from the EU country where you are officially resident.

As a Brit resident of Spain I will not be entitled to jill about all over EU for as long as I like, as per pre-Brexit nor move to another EU country wihout having to apply for residency as soon as I arrive.

You didn't say which country you are officially resident in. Or whether you have taken nationality of some other country than UK. If you are still a UK citizen German pensions or long-term residency in France will not matter. As a UK citizen you will be subject to the full effects of Brexit, as far as FoM is concerned.

 

[MisterB]

Rejecting FoM was a central theme of the pro-Brexit campaign under the slogan, 'Take Back Control'. Make of that what you will. The idea was to cut off the ability of anyone not British to come to UK to 'follow the jobs'. In the same way as FoM had a bonus for snow-birds and the like, 'Take Back Control' has now ended that.

some would say it wasnt about EU citizens 'following the jobs', it was more of them 'following the benefits' that seemed to have more prominence, which is different from allowing freedom of movement. it wont stop those who are qualified or 'competent' to seek employment or to attempt to 'follow the jobs', not much discussion seems to have been had on tourist visas into the UK. it seems likely to me that whatever the UK allow, would be reciprocated by the EU, which might 'assist' longer term holiday visas

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[bruno66]

"We knew what we voted for" that often quoted chestnut always sends my blood pressure skywards. Obviously "we" didn't.

Fooled by lying, scheming, disingenuous representations, and the (quite possibly chlorinated) chickens will soon be coming home to roost. I'm quite sure all the bluster is some sort of twisted version of macho negotiation and that the no deal scenario will be averted at the last minute, but if anyone seriously thinks they'll continue to exercise the right we have now, to roam for as long as we want in our expensive motorhomes then they really do need their heads examined.

Laziness, apathy and the willingness to accept lies and propaganda won the day. It's not the will of the people despite what the pro brexiteers say, but it is what we have to accept now for better or worse. I have a feeling it's only going to get worse with the charlatans that are "in charge" now anyway.

Phew, that's better off my chest! Just my opinion, I don't expect universal agreement with it!

 

[Hilewaychile]

"And who will speak for the Motorhomers on this and any similar matters ?"

"This and similar matters" has been settled, twice. Once by the result of the Referendum and then again by the General Election and the formation of the Johnson Goverment which won on the slogan, 'Let's Get Brexit Done'

The interests of 'motorhomers', such as they may be, have been caught up in the Brexit policy of 'Taking Back Control', the central theme of which was ending Freedom of Movement.

 

[Fragle]

It may be a dream to stay away for 90 days but there is no getting away from the fact that the British people are losing the right of Freedom of Movement within the EU. This is not some sort of 'golden holiday entitlement' dished up by Brussels. It is one of the 4 pillars of the Constitution of the EU.

Freedom of Movement has had a beneficial side-effect on those wishing to be somewhere in the EU for months, other than their home country - snow-birds in Spain, for example. But it was included in the key principles to allow for EU citizens to 'follow the jobs'.

At the heart of the European Union sit four key principles: the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour. The “four freedoms” were enshrined in the 1957 Treaty of Rome and reinforced in the Single European Act in 1986, the 1992 Maastricht treaty and the Lisbon treaty of 2007.

Rejecting FoM was a central theme of the pro-Brexit campaign under the slogan, 'Take Back Control'. Make of that what you will. The idea was to cut off the ability of anyone not British to come to UK to 'follow the jobs'. In the same way as FoM had a bonus for snow-birds and the like, 'Take Back Control' has now ended that.

“Follow the jobs”. If only it was.
The EU make the rules then break at will to suit themselves.
Ultimately Britain’s Benefits/Health/School systems were being abused. I don’t blame people for voting to take back control.
Look to the EU who opened up their borders and pointed everybody to the UK. Deals will be made with the EU. Now it will be on our terms not there’s
In the meantime 90/180 it is

 

[Hilewaychile]

some would say it wasnt about EU citizens 'following the jobs', it was more of them 'following the benefits' that seemed to have more prominence, which is different from allowing freedom of movement. it wont stop those who are qualified or 'competent' to seek employment or to attempt to 'follow the jobs', not much discussion seems to have been had on tourist visas into the UK. it seems likely to me that whatever the UK allow, would be reciprocated by the EU, which might 'assist' longer term holiday visas

You misunderstand. The Brexit policy may have been aimed at restricting 'following the benefits' but the EU FoM policy was about 'following the jobs'.

What you then go on to say may be the case. As for 'tourist visas', as someone else has already said here, 90 days is a dream to most people, getting to go away for 2-3 weeks, as they do. For the Government, dealing as they are with fiendishly complex and contrary issues, tourist visas don't even feature as a speck on the political radar.

 

[DBK]

I too thought that we would have to sell our villa in Spain, but after considering what DBK said earlier and consulting a published Schengen Calendar, I have come to the view that we can stay in the Schengen area for 76 days continously from part April,and all of May and June, return to UK for whole of July and August and then return to Schengen area for another 76 continous days, part September and all of October and November. This gives a total of 152 days in, less 62 days out, resulting in 90 days within Schengen.
This is broadly what we do now, so in effect there is no real impact.

Sadly it doesn't work like that. You have to look back over the full previous 180 days and deduct from it the time spent outside Schengen. So when you say come to the end of October the start of the 180 day period is the 4th of May, which under your proposal would be when you were in Schengen. So over the previous 180 days you were only out 62 days and thus you have exceeded the limit.

You would in fact have become illegal around the middle of October. If you want specific dates, if you arrived on 16 April and left 31 June then returned on 1 September you have to leave by 13th October.

I still think you could make it work but you have to stay out for a full 90 days in the summer. This is the only way to reset the clock. If you are out for less than 90 days the time spent on your spring trip will count against the autumn one.

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