Is the EV motorhome starting to look to be a viable prospect ?

[nicholsong]

No, They are saying that no NEW ICE's will be put onto british roads by 2035. The restrictions are Normal ICE by 2030 and hybrid ICE by 2035.. Commercial vehicles are still under discussion.

Karl

Did you see my post #41 above, where I was contemplating whether MHs as M1 (Special Purpose) would be classified as private or commercial.

Do you, or anyone else, have a view?

Geoff

 

[DerryW]

I'd be interested to know how many of us commenting here have driven an electric vehicle? I have and it was brilliant. No noise, amazing acceleration, cheap as chips to run. Of course the downside, cost of the vehicle, charging possibilities and range.

"Cheap as chips to run" they might be just now, but not so when road charging comes in.

 

[Gromett]

Karl

Did you see my post #41 above, where I was contemplating whether MHs as M1 (Special Purpose) would be classified as private or commercial.

Do you, or anyone else, have a view?

Geoff

Not something I have looked at to be honest.

 

[Li150]

Just read that Rishi Sunak uses a 15 year old vw golf to drive in London. So not too bothered bout the LEZ charges or pollution then

Probably claims back the LEZ charge etc on expenses.

 

[funflair]

Karl

Did you see my post #41 above, where I was contemplating whether MHs as M1 (Special Purpose) would be classified as private or commercial.

Do you, or anyone else, have a view?

Geoff

I don't know Geoff but I would imagine that they would follow commercial development as otherwise there would be no chassis available for motorhomes as they are basically all built onto some sort of commercial base.

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[Soycd]

"Cheap as chips to run" they might be just now, but not so when road charging comes in.

Sorry, by 'run' I meant fuel not car tax. Clearly as more and more EVs come on the road the taxation system will have to change.

 

[Soycd]

So, Infrastructure is not there for them, but we are being conned that it is there for us !!
Not worth the outlay for these cash rich companies, but the public are being conned into buying Solar panels and contributing to the GRID, so that Tesco etc can buy cheap power
See above for where joe public is being conned
Last point, answer NONE !!

"So, Infrastructure is not there for them, but we are being conned that it is there for us !!"
You may be being conned but I'm not, I know the infrastructure is not there yet.
"Not worth the outlay for these cash rich companies, but the public are being conned into buying Solar panels and contributing to the GRID, so that Tesco etc can buy cheap power"
'The public' can make informed decisions, I wouldn't buy solar panels as for me its uneconomical.
How many MP's in London use EV's, they should be setting the example?
Your answer was none. I think you'll find thats not accurate. I grant its not as many as should be, but it's not none.

 

[joe and sue]

"So, Infrastructure is not there for them, but we are being conned that it is there for us !!"
You may be being conned but I'm not, I know the infrastructure is not there yet.
"Not worth the outlay for these cash rich companies, but the public are being conned into buying Solar panels and contributing to the GRID, so that Tesco etc can buy cheap power"
'The public' can make informed decisions, I wouldn't buy solar panels as for me its uneconomical.
How many MP's in London use EV's, they should be setting the example?
Your answer was none. I think you'll find thats not accurate. I grant its not as many as should be, but it's not none.
View attachment 601448

Do you think the infrastructure will be complete and fully useable for everyone within 8 years, I think not !!
WE were all told how much money we could save / make with solar panels, so not true then
All MP's should be using EV's

 

[Soycd]

Do you think the infrastructure will be complete and fully useable for everyone within 8 years, I think not !!
No I don't either.
WE were all told how much money we could save / make with solar panels, so not true then
When and by whom? It doesn't take much to work the economics of solar panels. Take a look around, solar panel are not that common on houses so folk must have worked out its not economical.
All MP's should be using EV's
Yes they should be, but you said none, which is not true.

 

[EMS]

One item that has not been mentioned and is the crux of the problem for Motorhomes is the amount of energy stored for the engine/motor per volume and weight.
So the worst for energy compared to weight is by orders of magnitude the electric battery, this is why the electric vehicles failed during the development of transport, as at the start electric vehicles were faster and more reliable than ICE but impractical! Electric has a weight problem that reduces payload and range.
Hydrogen is several orders of magnitude better than electric for storage and weight, but it has several current problems for availability and wether it is used a ICE or a electric cell (electric cell is superior but difficult).
The petrol and diesel solutions for energy per volume and mass are the current best solution but not probably the eco/cleanest as it does depend how the electric and hydrogen are generated.
Nothing that is happening or will happen with batteries will be able to change the energy/mass problem that exists compared to Hydrogen and fossil fuel, hence aerospace companies are investigating hydrogen for aircraft power.
The government has a serious problem of how to obtain the tax income if we all use electric vehicles so they lose the cash cow of fossil fuels.

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[nicholsong]

I don't know Geoff but I would imagine that they would follow commercial development as otherwise there would be no chassis available for motorhomes as they are basically all built onto some sort of commercial base.

Martin

I assume that is the way it should go.

Although one gets into a grey area with smaller chassis like Berlingo, which can be used as a van, but maybe not so common in that role.

The definition problem is that whether a vehicle is classified as M1 or N1 depends not on the chassis but on what body is put on it, so when it is imported to UK as a chassis cab or chassis cowl how will it be classified?

I can also foresee lots of problems about cross-border use of vehicles, and worse about cross-border sales, if countries take different approaches and/or dates of implementation of rules.

Geoff

 

[joe and sue]

One item that has not been mentioned and is the crux of the problem for Motorhomes is the amount of energy stored for the engine/motor per volume and weight.
So the worst for energy compared to weight is by orders of magnitude the electric battery, this is why the electric vehicles failed during the development of transport, as at the start electric vehicles were faster and more reliable than ICE but impractical! Electric has a weight problem that reduces payload and range.
Hydrogen is several orders of magnitude better than electric for storage and weight, but it has several current problems for availability and wether it is used a ICE or a electric cell (electric cell is superior but difficult).
The petrol and diesel solutions for energy per volume and mass are the current best solution but not probably the eco/cleanest as it does depend how the electric and hydrogen are generated.
Nothing that is happening or will happen with batteries will be able to change the energy/mass problem that exists compared to Hydrogen and fossil fuel, hence aerospace companies are investigating hydrogen for aircraft power.
The government has a serious problem of how to obtain the tax income if we all use electric vehicles so they lose the cash cow of fossil fuels.

What i have been saying, but put much more eloquently, thankyou.
My Father used to drive an electric milk float back in the 60's, at least once a week the diesel tow truck had to go and bring him back as no leccy left !!
Not much has changed for commercial applications has it ??

 

[The Wino]

One item that has not been mentioned and is the crux of the problem for Motorhomes is the amount of energy stored for the engine/motor per volume and weight.
So the worst for energy compared to weight is by orders of magnitude the electric battery, this is why the electric vehicles failed during the development of transport, as at the start electric vehicles were faster and more reliable than ICE but impractical! Electric has a weight problem that reduces payload and range.
Hydrogen is several orders of magnitude better than electric for storage and weight, but it has several current problems for availability and wether it is used a ICE or a electric cell (electric cell is superior but difficult).
The petrol and diesel solutions for energy per volume and mass are the current best solution but not probably the eco/cleanest as it does depend how the electric and hydrogen are generated.
Nothing that is happening or will happen with batteries will be able to change the energy/mass problem that exists compared to Hydrogen and fossil fuel, hence aerospace companies are investigating hydrogen for aircraft power.
The government has a serious problem of how to obtain the tax income if we all use electric vehicles so they lose the cash cow of fossil fuels.

I think on the tax thing its pretty clear there's going to be mileage charging and I suspect it won't be the same charge per mile for vehicles with different engine types and most likely higher in urban areas particularly for diesels .

 

[AndyPK]

I wonder how many club sites along with CL and CS sites are going to install the new transformers to supply the multiple 7.4kW charging points, plus in
time EV motorhomes will be calling time on wild camping and van-lifers.

Why should any site install chargers for EVs….? We don’t expect to refuel with diesel/petrol when on site, so why should we ’expect’ to charge our EVs when pitched up……?

 

[Two on Tour]

Why should any site install chargers for EVs….? We don’t expect to refuel with diesel/petrol when on site, so why should we ’expect’ to charge our EVs when pitched up……?

Are you serious, have a think about the usage of a motorhome in the context of EV and range, so why have several sites we have been to have EV car chargers installed ?
So are you saying you sit for a couple of hours at a charging point somewhere off-site to go to a site fully charged ready for your next excursion ?

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[The Wino]

Are serious, have a think about the usage of a motorhome in the context of EV and range, so why have several sites we have been to have EV car chargers installed ?
So are you saying you sit for a couple of hours at a charging point somewhere off-site to go to a site fully charged ready for your next excursion ?

I think any charging points on pitches will not need to be very fast charging as presumably most will be parked overnight and that could tie in with a normally low demand time. It's going to be like anything else some places will put them in as fast chargers some lowish rates others not at all. The price will vary according. For a lot of people it's likely to be a popular facility for others if parked up for a week are they going to want to pay for a charger for a week to use it once. With the changes in energy prices and needs I suspect that most are going to be metered connections.

 

[AndyPK]

Are you serious, have a think about the usage of a motorhome in the context of EV and range, so why have several sites we have been to have EV car chargers installed ?
So are you saying you sit for a couple of hours at a charging point somewhere off-site to go to a site fully charged ready for your next excursion ?

Absolutely serious!
Surely from what you’ve written it just shows that EV ‘vans are not (currently!) fit for purpose……..and may not be for quite some time…….

 

[Two on Tour]

Absolutely serious!
Surely from what you’ve written it just shows that EV ‘vans are not (currently!) fit for purpose……..and may not be for quite some time…….

Totally agree, got it in one.

 

[CazPaul]

You have that back to front. The manufacturers didn't want to move to EV's the ban was the only way to make it happen.

We have 8 more years of ICE, then 13 years (average time before scrapping) So 21 years until we have to worry about being "forced" into an EV motorhome.
By then they will have the range sorted out.

So does that mean anyone buying a 300 grand diesel Motorhome today, in 21 years it won’t be useable in this country?

 

[Gromett]

So does that mean anyone buying a 300 grand diesel Motorhome today, in 21 years it won’t be useable in this country?

No one can predict that far ahead. But I can't see the government banning existing vehicle. Whether anyone is still selling Diesel is another matter though.
Probably be lots of companies doing conversions to electric by then though.

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[bobnick]

There will be lots of countrys out there not concerned with saving polar bears to buy our used MHs.

 

[Guigsy]

No one can predict that far ahead. But I can't see the government banning existing vehicle. Whether anyone is still selling Diesel is another matter though.
Probably be lots of companies doing conversions to electric by then though.

I think there'll be 'synthetic' fuels available at a small number of pumps for at least a decade past the 'no fossil fuels' deadline. They'll probably cost a fair bit more per litre. But they could theoretically make them renewable and carbon neutral. But they'd still cause local tailpipe emissions, so whether you'll be allowed to drive them into cities is a different matter.

 

[Gromett]

I think there'll be 'synthetic' fuels available at a small number of pumps for at least a decade past the 'no fossil fuels' deadline. They'll probably cost a fair bit more per litre. But they could theoretically make them renewable and carbon neutral. But they'd still cause local tailpipe emissions, so whether you'll be allowed to drive them into cities is a different matter.

I doubt synthetic fuel will go anywhere for two reasons.
1) It is expensive and I can't see companies investing too much in it only to see it not needed in the future. Limited lifespan to make profit on.
2) Government is not banning diesel or petrol just new ICE engines in cars. So cheap diesel and petrol will trump expensive synthetics I expect.

You are correct about cities, although I suspect Towns centres may go down this route as well?

 

[AndyPK]

You are correct about cities, although I suspect Towns centres may go down this route as well?

..and then town centre high streets really will die……..

 

[Gromett]

..and then town centre high streets really will die……..

By the time it happens "most" people will have EV's

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[The Wino]

By the time it happens "most" people will have EV's

And hopefully most a lot better park and ride etc than now. I suspect a much bigger danger to high streets will be the continued rise in online shopping. It could well be town centres are busy but different types of places with more restraunts and coffee shops etc it's already happening

 

[pappajohn]

If 15 years ago someone had said that in 2022 we'd be walking around with a phone in our pockets that has more computing power than our then home computers

More computing power than early space rockets ....
They had advanced computing power.....300 or 400 KB at best and they still managed to get into space

 

[AndyPK]

By the time it happens "most" people will have EV's

I disagree.
The ‘aim‘ is to do away with ‘personal-owned’ transport (cars, etc), and to be reliant on autonomous self-driving vehicles summoned in much the same way as Uber cabs……but this is still some way in the future…….

 

[Gromett]

I disagree.
The ‘aim‘ is to do away with ‘personal-owned’ transport (cars, etc), and to be reliant on autonomous self-driving vehicles summoned in much the same way as Uber cabs……but this is still some way in the future…….

The Aim? Who's Aim?

 

[cyberyacht]

The big oil companies will likely want to extract a few more years than the "new ICE" deadline to amortise their infrastructure investment overt a longer period. They'll still like us "gas guzzlers"

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