Is the EV motorhome starting to look to be a viable prospect ?

[glenn2926]

But conventionally engined cars have developed over the years through competition with other conventional cars. Ev,s will develop and have done by competition with other ev,s. The range and speed of charging will be major selling points it's not like they're saying you must buy an ev from one manufacturer. The other option is to not ban ice cars but wait until everyone buys ev,s because they are better that would mean they developed for longer but pollution continued for longer. I think they ought instead of banning them drastically increase fuel duty in a planned way over a similar time period. It would make people causing the most pollution change sooner and those who have ice vehicles but do very few miles could keep their ice vehicles. When I say increase fuel duty I'm thinking another pound a litre or so by the time the ice ban would come into force.

Your idea just impacts those of us that cannot afford a brand new car. I cannot and never will be in a position to buy a new car. I don’t get a free works car and never will. I have to pay my own way re transport. So finding £50000 upwards for a car that cannot go as far on a tank as my old one and will take hundreds of times longer to refill is in the real world not an option. Increasing the cost of fuel will again just impact those of us that cannot afford a battery car.

 

[Guigsy]

Also my pickup will travel over 400 miles on a tank of diesel and refill ready for another 400 miles in about 5 minutes. Can the Rivian do this? If not then it’s an inferior vehicle.

But you can't refill your truck on your drive way. Therefore its inferior.

 

[glenn2926]

But you can't refill your truck on your drive way. Therefore its inferior.

Not much point really. I’ll be 400 miles away by the time it needs filling. I know you cannot go that far so probably don’t understand what 400 miles from home means though.

 

[SheikhLala]

But EVs can be plugged into a wall socket. Hydrogen is much less efficient than batteries, so its nowhere near as good for the environment. In-vehicle fuel cells and the hydrogen storage are still expensive, so there's no price benefit over a battery.

For trucks, hydrogen might well happen. There's a lot of economic reasons it might compared to cars (although new battery technology is looking to make it more and more marginal). For motorhomes, hydrogen makes more sense, but if there's nowhere to fill it, it won't happen.

We have just spent £35 million on a new depot with multiple ev points for our electric fleet. Then transport bought new vehicles which don't charge fully on the existing chargers, so they have been ripped out and replaced with faster chargers but apparently we can't have as many chargers now because the site has reached the limitations of its electrical design.
Cost of charging is also a bigger factor now. I pay 5p/Kw with Oyster between 0030 and 0430, the flat rate at the depot is 25p/Kw.
I just can't see when Ev charging will be as fast as filling a fossil fuelled vehicle. Motorway services rely on speed of refill to justify the ridiculous ground rent they pay and/or cost of ownership and maintenance .There is also the small fact of the duty that the government take.

 

[The Wino]

All the post's against EVs make one assumption that there's a right to use a polluting vehicle and to have a personal vehicle at reasonable cost. That could change especially in big cities. In rural areas it could be different. I could easily see a time most cities only allow EVs in and everyone else has to park and ride it's started already with pollution charging. It might be the case that EVs become attractive for the convenience of not having to swap forms of transport outweighing the hassle of charging.

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[Tonks]

Petrol and diesel will still be available after that date. Just you won't be able to buy new cars with internal combustion engines.

I suspect that long term, fossil fuels will be replaced with bio/synthetic fuels. They'll get more expensive over time. So eventually it'll just be people driving 'classic' cars that need to increase their range by driving to a specialist to purchase a combustible liquid. I'm not sure where motorhomes will fit in this new world. We're too few in number to make a massive difference to the way the market and government policy will go.

You've mis-read. The Govt site quote from 3 Aug 2020 is this: "The government plans for petrol and diesel cars to be phased out of use on UK roads by 2035."
The ban on sales of new ICE vehicles is from 2030. This quote says ALL ICE vehicles are to be phased out of use on UK roads by 2035' ie. just 5 years later. That isn't the same as the earlier new vehicle ban. I don't believe it will be possible for any government to implement this, but I may eat my words in 10 years time, who knows...

 

[The Wino]

You've mis-read. The Govt site quote from 3 Aug 2020 is this: "The government plans for petrol and diesel cars to be phased out of use on UK roads by 2035."
The ban on sales of new ICE vehicles is from 2030. This quote says ALL ICE vehicles are to be phased out of use on UK roads by 2035' ie. just 5 years later. That isn't the same as the earlier new vehicle ban. I don't believe it will be possible for any government to implement this, but I may eat my words in 10 years time, who knows...

I'm not sure if they mean to phase out all petrol and diesel cars or still allow hybrids. If they do presumably fuel will still be available. It could well be the taxation regeme though makes them unviable as everyday transport once mileage charging replaces road tax.

 

[Two on Tour]

You've mis-read. The Govt site quote from 3 Aug 2020 is this: "The government plans for petrol and diesel cars to be phased out of use on UK roads by 2035."
The ban on sales of new ICE vehicles is from 2030. This quote says ALL ICE vehicles are to be phased out of use on UK roads by 2035' ie. just 5 years later. That isn't the same as the earlier new vehicle ban. I don't believe it will be possible for any government to implement this, but I may eat my words in 10 years time, who knows...

You should be safe as the wording says "The government plans"

 

[bobnick]

A lot on here wont be bothered what they will be forced to drive in 2035..................they will be driving up daisies.

 

[Two on Tour]

A lot on here wont be bothered what they will be forced to drive in 2035..................they will be driving up daisies.

Cheery little soul aren't you.

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[TDub49]

Other means of "green" propulsion are potentially available . . . .

Broken Link Removed

 

[Camdoon]

I have a Transit Custom PHEV and its the biggest load of shite, Ford should be embarrassed !! Doesn't do the range, doesn't always charge, doesn't always start, is constantly emailing me about faults with the airbag/seat belt pre-tensioners and has daily issues with the power steering .
If I could change it quickly, it would of gone back 3 weeks after getting it. The technology isn't tested enough and the environmental factors that affect battery charging and performance aren't properly catered for.

"With a Transit the mpg would come down to 25mpg if battering 200 miles up a motorway. The diesel would give you 40. I certainly wouldn't consider a hybrid as..." my warning in January. Used to have to deliver Ford demonstrators and wiped the MPG before I arrived at one garage as it was so embarrassing although told the transport manager what it was when he asked.

 

[Guigsy]

"With a Transit the mpg would come down to 25mpg if battering 200 miles up a motorway. The diesel would give you 40. I certainly wouldn't consider a hybrid as..." my warning in January. Used to have to deliver Ford demonstrators and wiped the MPG before I arrived at one garage as it was so embarrassing although told the transport manager what it was when he asked.

Hybrids are great in stop-start traffic and for short trips. But once you're on the motorway and you've done a few miles and used up the battery, it's just dead weight. Petrol has come a long way in the past few years, but it still can't beat a diesel for continuous loads. Problem is that although diesel is fuel efficient and so a bit better for climate change, it isn't as clean as we were lead to believe and it awful for local air quality.

 

[Jamesh]

Don't worry you'll be able to have a motorhome ok......except you won't have a garage because that's where the Perkins 4108 diesel will go to charge the green batteries!

 

[Neil S]

US: Volvo Trucks Receives Record Orders For VNR Electric Trucks

Volvo Trucks announced two large electric truck orders in North America for a total of a three-digit number of Volvo VNR Electric trucks.

insideevs.com

Bit bigger than a motorhome.

the electric Volvo 4x2 FH tractor available in Europe has a paltry range
183 miles at best
Only good for local work and given that recharge time is lengthy

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[Camdoon]

Hybrids are great in stop-start traffic and for short trips. But once you're on the motorway and you've done a few miles and used up the battery, it's just dead weight. Petrol has come a long way in the past few years, but it still can't beat a diesel for continuous loads. Problem is that although diesel is fuel efficient and so a bit better for climate change, it isn't as clean as we were lead to believe and it awful for local air quality.

Yes it is amazing how we 'forgot' the dirty diesel issues in Europe for a dozen years when the Americans and Japanese/Koreans didn't. It's as if the European manufacturers wanted to bend the market for their own benefit.

 

[joe and sue]

I’ve not heard of an X and all pickups can tow at least 2 tonnes. Mine can tow 2.7 tonnes. Most can tow 3.5tonnes.

Able to tow it, but can they stop it (safely)???

 

[joe and sue]

All the post's against EVs make one assumption that there's a right to use a polluting vehicle and to have a personal vehicle at reasonable cost. That could change especially in big cities. In rural areas it could be different. I could easily see a time most cities only allow EVs in and everyone else has to park and ride it's started already with pollution charging. It might be the case that EVs become attractive for the convenience of not having to swap forms of transport outweighing the hassle of charging.

So back to even more control of our lives,
When our politicians start using EV's or public transport then the people just might start to follow !!

 

[joe and sue]

First point: the infrastructure is not there yet. Some of you're examples already do.
Second point: they will probably have looked into it but its not worth the outlay, at the moment.
Third point: What has Joe public been conned into?
Fourth point: I don't know.

So, Infrastructure is not there for them, but we are being conned that it is there for us !!
Not worth the outlay for these cash rich companies, but the public are being conned into buying Solar panels and contributing to the GRID, so that Tesco etc can buy cheap power
See above for where joe public is being conned
Last point, answer NONE !!

 

[Gromett]

I fear you are correct. We will have to get used to vastly inferior vehicles. Certainly not an advance in motoring.
Shorter range, less payload, longer to recharge. Certainly not progress.
This why they’re having to ban the building of new ICE vehicles in a few years. If electric vehicles were really better we would all want to move over to them without being forced into it.

You have that back to front. The manufacturers didn't want to move to EV's the ban was the only way to make it happen.

We have 8 more years of ICE, then 13 years (average time before scrapping) So 21 years until we have to worry about being "forced" into an EV motorhome.
By then they will have the range sorted out.

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[glenn2926]

Able to tow it, but can they stop it (safely)???

That’s how they get the towing capability weights by being able to stop it.

 

[joe and sue]

That’s how they get the towing capability weights by being able to stop it.

No, it's the ability to start on a small incline, nothing to do with braking ability, because the guideline for that is no more than 85% of vehicle's kerb weight for safety

 

[glenn2926]

No, it's the ability to start on a small incline, nothing to do with braking ability, because the guideline for that is no more than 85% of vehicle's kerb weight for safety

I do think that’s for cars. Vehicles built for commercial use EG tractor units, rigid trucks that tow drawbar trailers, commercial pickups etc need to be able to stop the weight they are pulling. This is why commercial vehicles can tow more than their base weight. EG a tractor unit weighing 8ish tonnes pulling 44tonnes. Pickups weighing 2-3 tonnes being allowed to pull 3.5tonne loads.
Using your rules at 85% of towing vehicle weight we would have an awful lot more commercial vehicles being required.

 

[joe and sue]

I do think that’s for cars. Vehicles built for commercial use EG tractor units, rigid trucks that tow drawbar trailers, commercial pickups etc need to be able to stop the weight they are pulling. This is why commercial vehicles can tow more than their base weight. EG a tractor unit weighing 8ish tonnes pulling 44tonnes. Pickups weighing 2-3 tonnes being allowed to pull 3.5tonne loads.
Using your rules at 85% of towing vehicle weight we would have an awful lot more commercial vehicles being required.

I was talking about the Pick-ups used to portray a certain kind if lifestyle, not fully commercial vehicles, artics etc
Sorry for confusion
Joe

 

[Guigsy]

Yes it is amazing how we 'forgot' the dirty diesel issues in Europe for a dozen years when the Americans and Japanese/Koreans didn't. It's as if the European manufacturers wanted to bend the market for their own benefit.

Thing is, diesels are still better for climate change. They emit less CO2 because they are more efficient than petrol. That hasn't changed. Just they also create pollutants that are bad for local air quality. Dieselgate just pushed opinion towards local air quality mattering more.

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[Tonks]

You have that back to front. The manufacturers didn't want to move to EV's the ban was the only way to make it happen.

We have 8 more years of ICE, then 13 years (average time before scrapping) So 21 years until we have to worry about being "forced" into an EV motorhome.
By then they will have the range sorted out.

Not according to the Gov's statement in Aug 2020 (posted above) which states their aim is for all ICEs to be phased out of use on British roads by 2035. That's just 13 years away, and only 5 years longer than the ban on selling new ICEs.

 

[Engineer999]

My Wife and I have an EV, a VWID3 via the Motability scheme, chosen to reduce our day to day fuel costs on the basis the lease costs are the same for an equivalent ICE vehicle but I certainly couldn't justify the initial or ongoing battery replacement costs.
It has been shown that the total, often hidden environmental impact and costs of producing all the components to build an EV far outweigh the advantages.
The discussions so far have centred around the use and viability of EVs in the UK, consider for a moment the use in less developed countries - can we really envisage the ban on petrol and diesel vehicles in the likes of Turkey, Tunisia , North Africa, The Australian Outback etc? No, its not going to happen, there will be a demand across the world for ICE powered vehicles way beyond 30 years from now and nothing is going to change that - the worlds resources of rare minerals will have been exhausted by then - EV's are a technological cul-de-sac.
The Government may be able to stop the sale of ICE Vehicles in the UK but they will always be available from other countries and Manufacturers will continue to produce them, even if they will be LHD! The EV is a stop gap waiting for a cheap Hydrogen production solution that will remove the requirement for batteries and re-introduce a flexible method of refuelling.

 

[Gromett]

Not according to the Gov's statement in Aug 2020 (posted above) which states their aim is for all ICEs to be phased out of use on British roads by 2035. That's just 13 years away, and only 5 years longer than the ban on selling new ICEs.

No, They are saying that no NEW ICE's will be put onto british roads by 2035. The restrictions are Normal ICE by 2030 and hybrid ICE by 2035.. Commercial vehicles are still under discussion.

 

[63720]

All the post's against EVs make one assumption that there's a right to use a polluting vehicle and to have a personal vehicle at reasonable cost. That could change especially in big cities. In rural areas it could be different. I could easily see a time most cities only allow EVs in and everyone else has to park and ride it's started already with pollution charging. It might be the case that EVs become attractive for the convenience of not having to swap forms of transport outweighing the hassle of charging.

Most of these EVs will be charging over night and until someone invents windless turbines and lunar panels the energy will come from fossil fuels.

 

[joe and sue]

My Wife and I have an EV, a VWID3 via the Motability scheme, chosen to reduce our day to day fuel costs on the basis the lease costs are the same for an equivalent ICE vehicle but I certainly couldn't justify the initial or ongoing battery replacement costs.
It has been shown that the total, often hidden environmental impact and costs of producing all the components to build an EV far outweigh the advantages.
The discussions so far have centred around the use and viability of EVs in the UK, consider for a moment the use in less developed countries - can we really envisage the ban on petrol and diesel vehicles in the likes of Turkey, Tunisia , North Africa, The Australian Outback etc? No, its not going to happen, there will be a demand across the world for ICE powered vehicles way beyond 30 years from now and nothing is going to change that - the worlds resources of rare minerals will have been exhausted by then - EV's are a technological cul-de-sac.
The Government may be able to stop the sale of ICE Vehicles in the UK but they will always be available from other countries and Manufacturers will continue to produce them, even if they will be LHD! The EV is a stop gap waiting for a cheap Hydrogen production solution that will remove the requirement for batteries and re-introduce a flexible method of refuelling.

Or we resurrect the vehicles built my Burrell, Fowler etc

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