Is 130 BHP enough?

[The Artilleryman]

Are you allowed to tow a 2ton trailer with, what I presume is, a 3,5ton van? just asking??

Yes.
GTW (can't remember the new acronym) is 5.5ton, weight limit for the tow hook and MH is 2ton.

 

[Verteuil Man]

Are you allowed to tow a 2ton trailer with, what I presume is, a 3,5ton van? just asking??

You will have to look at the plate on the vehicle. The difference between the gross weight and the train weight is the total weight of what you can tow with the chassis. The size of the engine does not matter.

 

[Rozzer]

My (now ex)Adria 670 7.8mtr 3.5t was awful to drive with 130 multi jet. Had a tuning box fitted by TDI Chelmsford around £300 5 years ago and has been transformed. 160bhp and If you cruise carefully a couple more mpg. I don’t race around but it is now much safer pulling out into traffic etc don’t need the binoculars anymore!

 

[AndyVW]

Wow what a long thread, with an almost plethora of feelings on which BHP works and which one doesn't,
there are so many other factors. to consider, that it makes most of the above subjective.
So a couple of times people have mentioned, what the commercial industry works by,
The performance/economy yard stick is 100Nm per ton. The BHP is almost irelevant,
if fact generally its just a sales tool, i.e. 130 is cheaper than 180,
What does he know what your going to load it too,?
Did he work out how much power it will consume just pushing it through the air,?
No he did,nt !!

 

[Woodburner]

We have the 130 BHP motor in our 7m 3.5T Knaus and it's fine. We carry a motorbike in the garage most of the time and we're just under 3500KG fully loaded with a tank of fuel. Van happily cruises at 70MPH on motorways. Yes you have to drop a gear or even two on long or steep climbs but I do that in my car and that has 180BHP! Torque is the key thing for a motorhome and the 130 has plenty. You'll be fine.

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[mikebeaches]

I have a 2022 LWB Ducato van conversion with a 160bhp engine. I have to drop a gear or even two on steeper hills. It isn't the fastest off the mark but I cruise easily at 70 mph and accelerates well at higher speeds.
I think you will find 130bhp sluggish.

Interesting. I don't mean to be nosey, but if it is a 2022 van, have you covered very much mileage?

The engine in ours (Fiat 2.3 litre, 130 hp) didn't begin to really 'loosen up' until it had covered around 12,000 miles, and performance continued to improve a little more even after that. There's now much less gear changing required on hills than when it was new. Just saying.

 

[Lenny HB]

Interesting. I don't mean to be nosey, but if it is a 2022 van, have you covered very much mileage?

The engine in ours (Fiat 2.3 litre, 130 hp) didn't begin to really 'loosen up' until it had covered around 12,000 miles, and performance continued to improve a little more even after that.

Agree they need at least 10,000 miles on them before they give a good performance.

 

[L' Hobo]

Agree they need at least 10,000 miles on them before they give a good performance.

As I've said before, I never buy any vehicle new, just ones that are in excellent condition for the price.
(I let the first owner enjoy the depreciation hit and the teething problems. )

So, is the above statement by Lenny true??? I know that's how it used to be in 'the good old days', but I thought with modern oils, fuels, ECU's and bench run engines etc., the 'running-in period' was a thing of the past?

 

[Lenny HB]

So, is the above statement by Lenny true??? I know that's how it used to be in 'the good old days', but I thought with modern oils, fuels, ECU's and bench run engines etc., the 'running-in period' was a thing of the past?

Very true I've had 3 new Ducatos the Euro 4's was OK and loosened up after 3 or 4000 miles, The 5+ was about 5 or 6000 but the Euro 6 was very tight until 4000 but didn't fully loosen up until over 10,000. I just accept it, doesn't take that long to do 10k.

The engines don't require running in as such, like in the old days but they don't reach their full potential until you get a few miles on them.

 

[L' Hobo]

Very true I've had 3 new Ducatos the Euro 4's was OK and loosened up after 3 or 4000 miles, The 5+ was about 5 or 6000 but the Euro 6 was very tight until 4000 but didn't fully loosen up until over 10,000. I just accept it doesn't take that long to do 10k.

The engines don't require running in as such like in the old days but they don't reach their full potential until you get a few miles on them.

Interesting! In this age of electronic fuelling etc. I would have thought that the engine would have run better when everything was clean and unsullied by carbon, muck, dust etc. (Perhaps we should tell the F1 teams )

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[SteveRallye]

Only skipped thru the posts so someone may have added one about Elddis 175. Got one new in 2016 and it was well suited to the power ratio and gears. Only in Normandy did it become noticable on the steep long hills but it pulled a 1300 kg Dabon no problem down to Spain and back 3 times. A chap i spoke to at the towbar fitters had just changed from the 130 to 150 and said the gearing was better on his old 130bhp. I had the Iveco 3ltr in my 1st PVC and fully loaded at 3500 sat at 70 all day on all the Normandy hills etc, I still think we should still have the option on getting the 3ltr as against just better BHP, they are more economical on higher weights. It has now become the reserve of the wealthier M/H owners who can afford the big boys toys topend Cathagos and Morellos and such.

 

[Jolak]

Only skipped thru the posts so someone may have added one about Elddis 175. Got one new in 2016 and it was well suited to the power ratio and gears. Only in Normandy did it become noticable on the steep long hills but it pulled a 1300 kg Dabon no problem down to Spain and back 3 times. A chap i spoke to at the towbar fitters had just changed from the 130 to 150 and said the gearing was better on his old 130bhp. I had the Iveco 3ltr in my 1st PVC and fully loaded at 3500 sat at 70 all day on all the Normandy hills etc, I still think we should still have the option on getting the 3ltr as against just better BHP, they are more economical on higher weights. It has now become the reserve of the wealthier M/H owners who can afford the big boys toys topend Cathagos and Morellos and such.

Thanks for the info Steve. I've been convinced by the helpful comments I've had that all should be well with my 175, which I pick up this Wednesday. As a newcomer to motorhomes, I was probably expecting car performance and capabilities from a dirty great big van weighing over 3 tons. I'm looking forward to trying it out before I start making judgements about performance. Speaking of top-end motorhomes, I've already started browsing websites and for sale ads. I'm already fantasising about Carthagos before I've even picked up my Elddis.

 

[SteveRallye]

Met a nice couple in France with a topend Cathago and it had the 3ltr Iveco and on a 21 reg and it was a beauty. house price where we live, though keep we on dreaming. we traded the 175 for the Mobilvetta as we could not afford the Hymers/Cathagos etc but now we could not afford ours new, we paid 70k plus and its been great however the new ones are coming out at 110k plus, the main thing is enjoy , you can have just as much enjoyment on a lower budget

 

[Lenny HB]

I've already started browsing websites and for sale ads. I'm already fantasising about Carthagos before I've even picked up my Elddis.

Silly boy you should have bought a Carthago

 

[Jolak]

Silly boy you should have bought a Carthago

I did see one advertised (and sold), 10 years older than the Autoquest I'm buying and a few quid more, which might have been a better buy. It's a bit cock-eyed to thoroughly research something after I've committed myself to the second biggest purchase of my life, which was based on impulse. I'm sure it will work out. I've always got the option of downsizing my property and buying a motorhome to spend six months of the year in France.

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[Gaston aires]

130 ok if on a manual and you just change gear more often. A bit weedy on an auto.
Phil

 

[barsteward]

We have the 130 BHP motor in our 7m 3.5T Knaus and it's fine. We carry a motorbike in the garage most of the time and we're just under 3500KG fully loaded with a tank of fuel. Van happily cruises at 70MPH on motorways. Yes you have to drop a gear or even two on long or steep climbs but I do that in my car and that has 180BHP! Torque is the key thing for a motorhome and the 130 has plenty. You'll be fine.

Wow! SHMBO would have to forgo all her wardrobe and I would have to add an extension platform beyond the cab for her to sit on if I were to load my Blackbird in the garage.

 

[Coolcats]

I was told, power determines your top speed, torque determines how quick you get there.

The definition of Power: is speed x distance

The definition of torque is: a force produces torsion or rotation about an axis, equal to the product of the force vector and the radius vector from the axis of rotation to the point of application of the force; the moment of a force.

Personally I would go for more power if I want to go faster and more torque if I was carrying a heavier load

 

[Coolcats]

Not true. Power does both of those things.

There are two definitions one for power and one for Torque....for the same bhp you should find a diesel by it nature produces more torque than the petrol version, this is partly by design of the ICE itself.

 

[gpat]

The definition of Power: is speed x distance

The definition of torque is: a force produces torsion or rotation about an axis, equal to the product of the force vector and the radius vector from the axis of rotation to the point of application of the force; the moment of a force.

Personally I would go for more power if I want to go faster and more torque if I was carrying a heavier load

You can't have torque without power so that doesn't really make sense. This is because torque is a function of power. What you really need to say is that you want an engine that gives a high power output at a low rpm. This mathematically = torque

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[robnchris]

We bought a new 2.3L 130bhp in 2014, in the Autotrail Apache, it was definitely hard work to drive the A30's hills really tested your changing down skills to keep the van moving, average mpg was around 21 to 24.
At 8k we had a remap which transformed the vehicle, it's now a pleasure to drive and those long hills are not a problem, we now achieve a steady 28mpg.

 

[Coolcats]

You can't have torque without power so that doesn't really make sense. This is because torque is a function of power. What you really need to say is that you want an engine that gives a high power output at a low rpm. This mathematically = torque

I Simply stated that these are two separate definitions and it is important to understand these so for example you can have more Power but keep the same torque. edited to say or have more torque (maybe a diesel engine) and the same power in say a petrol engine.

Don't have a go at me I didn't make this stuff up

Difference between power and torque: Which one is more important in vehicles?​

What is torque? ​

In simple terms, the definition of torque is the engine's rotational force. It differs from horsepower as it refers to the amount of work an engine can exert, while horsepower defines how quickly that work can be delivered. It’s why torque is often referred to in layman’s terms as ‘pulling power’, ‘oomph’, or ‘grunt’

How to Calculate Power Based on Force and Speed​

 

[gpat]

I Simply stated that these are two separate definitions and it is important to understand these so for example you can have more Power but keep the same torque. edited to say or have more torque (maybe a diesel engine) and the same power in say a petrol engine.

Don't have a go at me I didn't make this stuff up

Difference between power and torque: Which one is more important in vehicles?​

What is torque?​

In simple terms, the definition of torque is the engine's rotational force. It differs from horsepower as it refers to the amount of work an engine can exert, while horsepower defines how quickly that work can be delivered. It’s why torque is often referred to in layman’s terms as ‘pulling power’, ‘oomph’, or ‘grunt’

How to Calculate Power Based on Force and Speed​

All these explanations are simplifying something that does not need to be simplified. In most cases the explanation is indicative to aid understanding but almost invariably incorrect

It's a simple mathematical formula.

torque = horsepower x 5252 divided by the rpm.

So a torquey engine is one that produces a good amount of power at low rpm. So power is torque but power is often referred to at its maximum power which is usually towards to top of the rev limit.

 

[TeamBandS]

Lots of interesting info and opinions in this thread. I have a 2015 3500kg 130bhp a class. Been fine for the 42k miles I have done to date. However, now putting a trailer behind with a scooter and some heavier garage items on board to ensure I stay below the MH 3500 weight limit. Thinking of remapping the engine for torque and recall a very informative tread some time ago on this subject. Anyone recall where it is please?

 

[Coolcats]

All these explanations are simplifying something that does not need to be simplified. In most cases the explanation is indicative to aid understanding but almost invariably incorrect

It's a simple mathematical formula.

torque = horsepower x 5252 divided by the rpm.

So a torquey engine is one that produces a good amount of power at low rpm. So power is torque but power is often referred to at its maximum power which is usually towards to top of the rev limit.

You are of course welcome to that opinion, one reason Max torque is higher in the rev range on a performance car is so that the driver doesn't throw the car off the black stuff giving more control at lower revs where the torque is required to move a mass.

Torque and Power are different things the explanations I have provided would stand up to Bio mechanical or engineering scrutiny its is not aimed to confuse, simplify or incorrect they are simply facts.

In the same way denser cool air will increase performance which is one reason why the cars at Le-Mans go faster at night so maybe our MoHo's should be fitted with a cool air box on the intake as performance cars sometimes are

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[gpat]

You are of course welcome to that opinion, one reason Max torque is higher in the rev range on a performance car is so that the driver doesn't throw the car off the black stuff giving more control at lower revs where the torque is required to move a mass.

Torque and Power are different things the explanations I have provided would stand up to Bio mechanical or engineering scrutiny its is not aimed to confuse, simplify or incorrect they are simply facts.

In the same way denser cool air will increase performance which is one reason why the cars at Le-Mans go faster at night so maybe our MoHo's should be fitted with a cool air box on the intake as performance cars sometimes are

Its not an opinion it a fact.

I didn't say power and torque were the same things, they are not

I said they were linked mathematically. They are.

Max torque is calculated by testing an engines power over its full rev range and under load. Diesel engines have max torque at lower revs than petrol engines.

Because of the mathematical way torque is tested it will always have a relationship to power.

 

[gpat]

Lots of interesting info and opinions in this thread. I have a 2015 3500kg 130bhp a class. Been fine for the 42k miles I have done to date. However, now putting a trailer behind with a scooter and some heavier garage items on board to ensure I stay below the MH 3500 weight limit. Thinking of remapping the engine for torque and recall a very informative tread some time ago on this subject. Anyone recall where it is please?

so you can remap the engine to give more power and you can remap the engine to give different power at different RPMs. By this way you can increase the rpm at which max torque is achieved.

 

[Coolcats]

I didn't say power and torque were the same things,

Thank you that is all that was needed we agree then that the fact is they are separate measurable characteristics.

I also apologise that I am coming across as being pedantic I’m just pointing out the two definitions.

 

[afraidOfDrivingBig]

A fit cyclist can, at low RPM, match the torque of a motorcycle engine. So if torque were the only thing that matters for climbing, the cyclist, being much lighter, would outclimb many motorbikers.

 

[Big Boris]

Having agreed the purchase of an Elddis Majestic 175 2 berth, which I should collect next week, I've obviously been spending too much time considering my purchase. The last four cars I've had, have been 150 BHP to 200 BHP and I've found that power range suitable for my needs as a 72 year old who doesn't hang about, even when towing a caravan. I'm just wondering what it's going to be like with a 130 BHP Peugeot Boxer weighing 3500 kg. Will I find it very sluggish or will it be adequate? It's got a towbar but I won't be towing a little car or even a motor bike. I notice that a lot of more recent similar size motorhomes are 150 + BHP. Will it cruise comfortably at 60 + mph or will the slightest gradient or headwind slow it down? I know I'll have to suck it and see, but is it common practice to get a Specialist to re-jig the engine management to give a bit more power without drastically increasing the fuel consumption? I did have a diesel Rav4 which was 150 BHP and I bought a German produced gizmo recommended in the Owner's Forum which increased it to close to 200 BHP without any noticeable increase in mpg and also made it a better tow car. Please tell me I'm going to be happy with the performance.

Hi we have a 130 BHP Peugeot motorhome and tow a Toyota Aygo heading up to Fort William on the motorway up all the usual motorway route in sixth gear not a problem l regularly get 26 mpg and yes the newer models are up to 150 BHP and that is down to normal upgrades and remapping of the engines

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