Is 130 BHP enough?

[gpat]

I was told, power determines your top speed, torque determines how quick you get there.

Not true. Power does both of those things.

 

[cyberyacht]

MY 6.4M Carthago (3500Kg) has the 150BHP engine but with a manual box. I am generally light-footed, getting around 31mpg over the past two years. Steepest challenge has been Porlock Hill, where, with a bit of welly and second gear, it sails up. The constraints of the turns are dependent on the road-holding rather than engine power.

 

[busby]

MY 6.4M Carthago (3500Kg) has the 150BHP engine but with a manual box. I am generally light-footed, getting around 31mpg over the past two years. Steepest challenge has been Porlock Hill, where, with a bit of welly and second gear, it sails up. The constraints of the turns are dependent on the road-holding rather than engine power.

Agree,,easy to loose traction on tight climbs,Porlock would have me in first all the way.Came down it a couple of weeks ago,,2 nd gear all the way down..BUSBY.

 

[Mike Rivers]

At the speeds you’ll be going 130 is sufficient. It’s the torque not the bhp that matters. I personally wouldn’t bother tinkering around with engine mapping. My Bailey is a 160 bhp version and 3500kg and I still get 30 mpg fully laden. I would expect you to achieve similar or even better. When we bought our motorhome late 2016 for 2017 delivery we nearly bought a Bessacar which was 130 bhp, so commonplace is what I’m saying, not underpowered.

 

[Jolak]

At the speeds you’ll be going 130 is sufficient. It’s the torque not the bhp that matters. I personally wouldn’t bother tinkering around with engine mapping. My Bailey is a 160 bhp version and 3500kg and I still get 30 mpg fully laden. I would expect you to achieve similar or even better. When we bought our motorhome late 2016 for 2017 delivery we nearly bought a Bessacar which was 130 bhp, so commonplace is what I’m saying, not underpowered.

Thanks Mike, I've come to that conclusion myself having looked at motorhomes for sale (mainly the ones I can't afford) and studying their specifications. I have seen 7.5 + meter Carthagos weighing 4000 kg and these are being sold with 130 bhp engines, so it's not just the lower end of the market models like mine. I'll just suck it and see before I go to unnecessary expense. Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments.

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[VXman]

The traction issue is the same though however powerful the engine is.

The more powerful the more problem with traction.

 

[Rob Turner]

My last van was at 4.5t and was a 130 Comfortmatic.
It was absolutely fine, yes, some of the steeper climbs in the alps took a bit longer but we got there.
The van previous to that one was also a 130 but a manual and again was fine.

 

[Jolak]

My last van was at 4.5t and was a 130 Comfortmatic.
It was absolutely fine, yes, some of the steeper climbs in the alps took a bit longer but we got there.
The van previous to that one was also a 130 but a manual and again was fine.

My latest car, a Skoda Karoq, has the VW Audi DSG gearbox and I'm totally hooked on it. It's my first auto and I thought I just couldn't go back to manual, but I'll have to get the left foot back into use from Wednesday. Having started off with bangers and double declutching on some of them, I'm sure I'll cope. I've never been one to find it necessary to be the first one away from the traffic lights like a lot of drivers nowadays. I'm sure the roads are a substitute for the playground for a lot of them.

 

[minesapint]

Having agreed the purchase of an Elddis Majestic 175 2 berth, which I should collect next week, I've obviously been spending too much time considering my purchase. The last four cars I've had, have been 150 BHP to 200 BHP and I've found that power range suitable for my needs as a 72 year old who doesn't hang about, even when towing a caravan. I'm just wondering what it's going to be like with a 130 BHP Peugeot Boxer weighing 3500 kg. Will I find it very sluggish or will it be adequate? It's got a towbar but I won't be towing a little car or even a motor bike. I notice that a lot of more recent similar size motorhomes are 150 + BHP. Will it cruise comfortably at 60 + mph or will the slightest gradient or headwind slow it down? I know I'll have to suck it and see, but is it common practice to get a Specialist to re-jig the engine management to give a bit more power without drastically increasing the fuel consumption? I did have a diesel Rav4 which was 150 BHP and I bought a German produced gizmo recommended in the Owner's Forum which increased it to close to 200 BHP without any noticeable increase in mpg and also made it a better tow car. Please tell me I'm going to be happy with the performance.

Hi we have a Burstner automatic with the 130hp engine, it weighs in at 3850 and is 7.3mtrs long, we fitted a tuning box from TDi tuning, as it was struggling a bit.
It now tows a Hyundai i10 with no problem and with the tuning box from TDi it is returning 27.1 mpg, it cruises at 60 miles an hour with no problem, with power to spare for an occasional overtake, if required.
We have been to Spain and France this summer and crossed the Pyrenees 3 times, no problem.
If you are not towing anything you will be fine, but if you want a bit more go, with better fuel consumption, consider fitting a TDi tuning box. sales@tdi-tuning.com
I do not work for or have any direct contact with TDi apart from being a satisfied customer,
Enjoy your new MoHo.

 

[NoMadVan42]

My 2020 Adria is 130hp and I had the same doubts when I bought it as I drive a German car starting with a P. But it’s absolutely fine, I enjoy cruising along at 60 or 70mph and actually find that it uses a lot less fuel at 60. Probably the cost of a bottle of wine a day . I do need to change gear occasionally but so what? What’s motorhoming all about anyway!

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[CaptainPaul]

I'm hoping to be a bit more chilled out with the motorhome. One of the reasons I gave up caravanning is that I find it a drudge, particularly in the UK. In fact, living in Nottingham, I travel on the bus when I can. Also with the caravan, once you get there, there's all the setting up to do, so I'd got to the stage where I won't be sad to see it go.

You'll be fine with the 130 Jolak I misunderstood your original thread, I thought you were ordering brand new from the factory and was suggesting the 180hp if it was an option purely because in my own personal experiences and test drives I found it the nicest to drive, but the 130 will be fine and as others have said a remap isn't the end of the world to get done the main thing is to get out and enjoy it and I'll wish you good health to enjoy it

 

[Jolak]

Hi we have a Burstner automatic with the 130hp engine, it weighs in at 3850 and is 7.3mtrs long, we fitted a tuning box from TDi tuning, as it was struggling a bit.
It now tows a Hyundai i10 with no problem and with the tuning box from TDi it is returning 27.1 mpg, it cruises at 60 miles an hour with no problem, with power to spare for an occasional overtake, if required.
We have been to Spain and France this summer and crossed the Pyrenees 3 times, no problem.
If you are not towing anything you will be fine, but if you want a bit more go, with better fuel consumption, consider fitting a TDi tuning box. sales@tdi-tuning.com
I do not work for or have any direct contact with TDi apart from being a satisfied customer,
Enjoy your new MoHo.

I fitted a similar device to my Rav4. It takes over some of the tasks normally performed by the ECU. It was a German made device and cost just over a couple of hundred quid. Well worth the money and easy to fit. I'll see how I go on without it first and don't intend to tow anything until I can afford it. The only thing I have apprehension about is not being able to jump in the car and go to a market 20 miles away or visit a chateau and so on.

 

[Johnthebike50]

Having agreed the purchase of an Elddis Majestic 175 2 berth, which I should collect next week, I've obviously been spending too much time considering my purchase. The last four cars I've had, have been 150 BHP to 200 BHP and I've found that power range suitable for my needs as a 72 year old who doesn't hang about, even when towing a caravan. I'm just wondering what it's going to be like with a 130 BHP Peugeot Boxer weighing 3500 kg. Will I find it very sluggish or will it be adequate? It's got a towbar but I won't be towing a little car or even a motor bike. I notice that a lot of more recent similar size motorhomes are 150 + BHP. Will it cruise comfortably at 60 + mph or will the slightest gradient or headwind slow it down? I know I'll have to suck it and see, but is it common practice to get a Specialist to re-jig the engine management to give a bit more power without drastically increasing the fuel consumption? I did have a diesel Rav4 which was 150 BHP and I bought a German produced gizmo recommended in the Owner's Forum which increased it to close to 200 BHP without any noticeable increase in mpg and also made it a better tow car. Please tell me I'm going to be happy with the performance.

I think it will be perfect, it's the torque of these engines that makes the difference. They will never be deagsters but more than enough.

 

[Otter Spotter]

I fitted a similar device to my Rav4. It takes over some of the tasks normally performed by the ECU. It was a German made device and cost just over a couple of hundred quid. Well worth the money and easy to fit. I'll see how I go on without it first and don't intend to tow anything until I can afford it. The only thing I have apprehension about is not being able to jump in the car and go to a market 20 miles away or visit a chateau and so on.

I had a RaceChip plug and play in my Nissan Pathfinder and it was a rocket ship and if I drove it for economy then it increased by at least 8 MPG.
I then had a Quantum remap done to my 130bhp Citroen relay PVC and it immediately improved tonque and power through the gears with a small increase in MPG. It took it from 130BHP to 180BHP which is evidenced by not having to put foot down at hills and instead of dropping from 6th to 4th I can drive up most hills in 5th without loss of speed but economy will drop.
Go for a remap it will be the cheapest method of power increase and it Can be easily reversed if you don’t like it

 

[Alan Atkin]

Having agreed the purchase of an Elddis Majestic 175 2 berth, which I should collect next week, I've obviously been spending too much time considering my purchase. The last four cars I've had, have been 150 BHP to 200 BHP and I've found that power range suitable for my needs as a 72 year old who doesn't hang about, even when towing a caravan. I'm just wondering what it's going to be like with a 130 BHP Peugeot Boxer weighing 3500 kg. Will I find it very sluggish or will it be adequate? It's got a towbar but I won't be towing a little car or even a motor bike. I notice that a lot of more recent similar size motorhomes are 150 + BHP. Will it cruise comfortably at 60 + mph or will the slightest gradient or headwind slow it down? I know I'll have to suck it and see, but is it common practice to get a Specialist to re-jig the engine management to give a bit more power without drastically increasing the fuel consumption? I did have a diesel Rav4 which was 150 BHP and I bought a German produced gizmo recommended in the Owner's Forum which increased it to close to 200 BHP without any noticeable increase in mpg and also made it a better tow car. Please tell me I'm going to be happy with the performance.

I have the same van 63 reg p/boxer and toured europe 2019, 8 weeks, we had no problems what soever over the pyrennes and alps twice I had a tow bar also but removed it and fitted solar and an extra 110amp battery we stayed on aires and only when we were down on power did we use a site. We found that the van is cold so put insulation in all the places we couldnt see.The equipment we had was standard to that make and model and the speed / cruise control worked fine were we could on motorways it was happy at 70 but found a sweet spot at 59 mph where we returned aprrox 28-30mpg.
I suggest that you check for damp in the bathroom at the rear near the toilet left side we had a small damp patch repaired by a qualified repairer caught just in time pointed that all the out side seams needed to be resealed as that was where the leak came from been done 2 years now no problems. Had the van now for 5 years and except for new tyres mich' 4 season gives a better ride, touch wood we have no problems we have covered 24,000 miles in that time. Hope you have a good time with your van. Give it a good try before you decide to make modifications just for a little gain.

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[Roger J Holman]

Our Rapido (2016) has the comformatic gearbox, and I am deligted with it. On a threeweek trip through Northern France, |Switzerland, North Itay, back to Switzerland, and home via Germany and Belgium, we encountered just about all types of driving conditions, even a little snow!

The 2.3 engine, which I initially fought against, having gone from a 2.8 in a Hymer, behaved perfectly, and did everything we asked. Where the comformatic proved its work was in the Alps, where the manual function was invaluable when negotiating repeated hairpins; no waiting for kickdown to respond, a flick of the fingers and the required gear was selected. Not only climbing up, but going down hill too, takes a lot off the brakes, which we discovered when we started to smell overheating Ferodo.

With experience, I find both engine and gearbox hard to fault, a much better arrangement than the old Hymer with a manual box.

 

[mikebeaches]

Our 6.4 metre Fiat-based panel van conversion (Rapido) has the 2.3 litre, 130 hp engine mated to the comfortmatic semi-automatic gearbox. We run at close on 3,500kg and the performance is perfectly adequate and a good top speed on the Continent.

Travelled perfectly well fully loaded over the Grossglockner Alpine pass, the highest road in Austria at about 8,250 feet above sea level.

 

[Jolak]

Our 6.4 metre Fiat-based panel van conversion (Rapido) has the 2.3 litre, 130 hp engine mated to the comfortmatic semi-automatic gearbox. We run at close on 3,500kg and the performance is perfectly adequate and a good top speed on the Continent.

Travelled perfectly well fully loaded over the Grossglockner Alpine pass, the highest road in Austria at about 8,250 feet above sea level.

View attachment 687543

Fantastic! I've always wanted to do that road. Trouble is, my wife throws a wobbler when there's a big drop at the side of the road. I have to do it really slow and I'm not comfortable when I'm holding up the traffic behind me. I really think she has no confidence in my driving.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Fantastic! I've always wanted to do that road. Trouble is, my wife throws a wobbler when there's a big drop at the side of the road. I have to do it really slow and I'm not comfortable when I'm holding up the traffic behind me. I really think she has no confidence in my driving.

You are not on your own, my wife thinks she is Wilma Flintstone she starts peddling any time she thinks I am either going too fast or too close to any motor in front, even if it’s 50 yard away.

 

[Regdel Fun Bus]

Hello all, in 2016 we bought a new Burstner 726g with the Fiat 130 bhp engine and the comformatic gearbox, it was fine and did it’s job well.
On occasion it did change up and down gears too often for our liking on long inclines, it seemed it couldn’t make its mind up which gear to be in, so we just pushed the lever over to manual on these odd occasions, then you could apply more accelerator without the constant up and down of the gears.
The Wife and myself would look across at each other when it did it.
We had a few issues with the Fiat side of things, mainly a leaking gearbox centre shaft, and the steering rack end seals leaking, so gave it back to the dealer within 3 months for them to attempt the repairs, sadly this didn’t go very well, so a replacement was found, however it was a 150 bhp and £1,500 more expensive, so we were asked to pay the additional cost.
I was happy with the 130 bhp tbh, so
I asked the dealer / sales people why the extra cost for 20 bhp? As I have had remaps before from Quantum and Celtic Tuning for under £300, but they could not tell me.
I did a bit of my own research and found the 150 has a variable vane turbo, the 130 has a fixed vane turbo hence the extra cost, more moving parts.
The variable vane turbo expands and contracts so can spin up faster, and gives less turbo lag, (pulls off faster on roundabouts etc).
We did notice a difference with the 150 bhp especially with the comformatic, it still changed gear on inclines as before, but a manual might be less noticeable as you can rev the engine before you let the clutch out with the turbo already up to speed.
I have had a few quick Cars over the years, and modern performance Cars tend to have 2 turbos, usually variable vane and one smaller than the other larger one to help reduce lag, (lag being the time it takes for the turbo’s to spin up).
Incidentally I am not an expert but I am an engineer so like to know detail, and my understanding was that Audi developed the DSG gearbox during the group B era, as the huge turbo on the rally spec Quattro was slow spinning up after manual gear changes, with DSG you can just keep your foot planted and yank on the gear change lever….. Awesome!

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[Lenny HB]

I did a bit of my own research and found the 150 has a variable vane turbo, the 130 has a fixed vane turbo hence the extra cost, more moving parts.

The 150 also has uprated brakes which is probably more important.

 

[Lenny HB]

Fantastic! I've always wanted to do that road. Trouble is, my wife throws a wobbler when there's a big drop at the side of the road. I have to do it really slow and I'm not comfortable when I'm holding up the traffic behind me. I really think she has no confidence in my driving.

That is easy to fix, let her drive.

 

[mikebeaches]

Fantastic! I've always wanted to do that road. Trouble is, my wife throws a wobbler when there's a big drop at the side of the road. I have to do it really slow and I'm not comfortable when I'm holding up the traffic behind me. I really think she has no confidence in my driving.

It was a good experience driving over Grossglokner, but not particularly difficult or too scary. The brakes got a bit warm on the way down, however.

To get the most from it try to choose a fine-weather-day, the views are stunning. We did it in early June and there was plenty of snow around.

 

[Regdel Fun Bus]

Amazing pictures, and as you said Lenny the updated brakes would be more important on the way down than the speed you got up

 

[L' Hobo]

Our 6.4 metre Fiat-based panel van conversion (Rapido) has the 2.3 litre, 130 hp engine mated to the comfortmatic semi-automatic gearbox. We run at close on 3,500kg and the performance is perfectly adequate and a good top speed on the Continent.

Travelled perfectly well fully loaded over the Grossglockner Alpine pass, the highest road in Austria at about 8,250 feet above sea level.

View attachment 687543

When I had my coach company, I used to go up the Grossglockner often with my 40ft coach.
The groups were either based at Leogang or later at a small village called Grossarl which had a very narrow mountainside road leading to it.
If you fancy a nice friendly village, give Grossarl a visit.

I love Austria, thankyou for the memories!

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[Tony50]

It's over 7m with a 130 it is going to be underpowered, I had a 130 in a 6.8m it was just about OK, last two vans have had the 150 even they are underpowered on mountain roads. I would look for one with the 180 engine it will be far nicer to drive.

I agree. The 180 engine I had on a Fiat Comfortmatic pulled very well it was on a 4.4 tonnes Chausson

 

[The Artilleryman]

Our Bailey Autograph tows a 2 ton box trailer all the time, never found it short on power, as others have said may need to shange down for hills, but I can keep it at road max. speed without any problems.

 

[L' Hobo]

Our Bailey Autograph tows a 2 ton box trailer all the time, never found it short on power, as others have said may need to shange down for hills, but I can keep it at road max. speed without any problems.

Are you allowed to tow a 2ton trailer with, what I presume is, a 3,5ton van? just asking??

 

[donkey]

My PVC has a GTW of well over 6tonnes.

Geoff

 

[BikerJon]

Having agreed the purchase of an Elddis Majestic 175 2 berth, which I should collect next week, I've obviously been spending too much time considering my purchase. The last four cars I've had, have been 150 BHP to 200 BHP and I've found that power range suitable for my needs as a 72 year old who doesn't hang about, even when towing a caravan. I'm just wondering what it's going to be like with a 130 BHP Peugeot Boxer weighing 3500 kg. Will I find it very sluggish or will it be adequate? It's got a towbar but I won't be towing a little car or even a motor bike. I notice that a lot of more recent similar size motorhomes are 150 + BHP. Will it cruise comfortably at 60 + mph or will the slightest gradient or headwind slow it down? I know I'll have to suck it and see, but is it common practice to get a Specialist to re-jig the engine management to give a bit more power without drastically increasing the fuel consumption? I did have a diesel Rav4 which was 150 BHP and I bought a German produced gizmo recommended in the Owner's Forum which increased it to close to 200 BHP without any noticeable increase in mpg and also made it a better tow car. Please tell me I'm going to be happy with the performance.

I have a 2022 LWB Ducato van conversion with a 160bhp engine. I have to drop a gear or even two on steeper hills. It isn't the fastest off the mark but I cruise easily at 70 mph and accelerates well at higher speeds.
I think you will find 130bhp sluggish.

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