Is 130 BHP enough?

[Lenny HB]

Sorry Lenny but being a newbie, I'm not familiar with all the abbreviations. What's a CB?

CB = Coach Built, like the van you are looking at.

 

[Jolak]

Thanks for the helpful replies. I'm somewhat reassured that it will be ok. It's probably down to a memory from the dim and distant past when I hired a Luton van from a dodgy Coventry van hire firm. I had to do a removal from North Wales down to Kent and back to Coventry. It had the aerodynamics of a wardrobe and a knackered engine to match. The only time I exceeded 45mph was down hills with a tailwind. I'm forgetting that things have moved on a bit since then and I've always found hire vans nowadays alright, particularly a VW I hired a few months ago. Anyway, I can't wait to get on the road.

 

[Jolak]

CB = Coach Built, like the van you are looking at.

cheers

 

[VXman]

Brakes are fine on the Maxi chassis, no so good on the light chassis with the 130, the 150 & 180 have upgraded brakes. Another reason not to have the 130.

Brakes got a little hot on my decent in the Dolomites recently. Probably more to to with technique though. I initially descended like I would in a car, too much reliance of brakes, too fast and not using the gears. Learnt that lesson!

However, how do I know what chassis I have?

Fiat 7.5 metre, 140 bhp, 3500kg upgraded to 4250kg.

 

[barsteward]

Thanks for the helpful replies. I'm somewhat reassured that it will be ok. It's probably down to a memory from the dim and distant past when I hired a Luton van from a dodgy Coventry van hire firm. I had to do a removal from North Wales down to Kent and back to Coventry. It had the aerodynamics of a wardrobe and a knackered engine to match. The only time I exceeded 45mph was down hills with a tailwind. I'm forgetting that things have moved on a bit since then and I've always found hire vans nowadays alright, particularly a VW I hired a few months ago. Anyway, I can't wait to get on the road.

Enjoy

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[Lenny HB]

Brakes got a little hot on my decent in the Dolomites recently. Probably more to to with technique though. I initially descended like I would in a car, too much reliance of brakes, too fast and not using the gears. Learnt that lesson!

However, how do I know what chassis I have?

Fiat 7.5 metre, 140 bhp, 3500kg upgraded to 4250kg.

It will be the maxi if you have been able to upgrade to 4250, rear axle should be 2500 & front 2100 or 2300 dependant on front struts.

 

[VXman]

I recently changed my van from a 5 ton Burstner on a Ducato chassis with the Iveco 3.0 TD 160hp engine went like the clappers with no drag on hills whatsoever, when I changed I test drove a couple of pvc vans all 3.5 ton and all on the Fiat Ducato chassis with the latest euro VI 2.3 engines 1 was the 2.3 130hp which I found underpowered, next was the 2.3 150hp which was a bit better but i then settled for the one I have now, again on Ducato chassis with the 2.3 180hp engine very nippy with no hill drag at all and although I don't hammer on much when I'm away on holidays for me its definitely the best option when buying a new vanView attachment 687187

Basically you are saying having more power is better. I'm not sure anyone would disagree there. Not necessarily a problem to have less though.

If the van I wanted had the 180 option and cost wasn't an issue I would probably have gone for that too. I'm a bit of a petrol head and like my powerful cars. However, I wouldn't say the power models are lacking.

 

[BusyBuilder]

I have a 6.6m 4250kg on the Fiat maxi chassis with 130bhp engine. We have persevered for 5 years then this year it had new clutch and timing belt done, so we decided to remap. Nothing serious 150bhp and extra torque. Now it drives a little better, seems a bit more relaxed on the road, but made a difference going up the big inclines, instead of 3rd gear we now go up in 4th, but it pulls better too. Can't see any difference in MPG though.

 

[Lenny HB]

They don't give you much choice now if on a Fiat, only the 2.2 140 & 180.

 

[Minxy]

It will be the maxi if you have been able to upgrade to 4250, rear axle should be 2500 & front 2100 or 2300 dependant on front struts.

Rear will be a max of 2400kg, not 2500kg unless things have changed whilst I wasn't looking!

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[Lenny HB]

Rear will be a max of 2400kg, not 2500kg unless things have changed whilst I wasn't looking!

Alko chassis it's 2500 & friends Adria on a Fiat is 2500 I think the 2400 was only on the panel vans.

 

[DDJC]

I have a 6.6m 4250kg on the Fiat maxi chassis with 130bhp engine. We have persevered for 5 years then this year it had new clutch and timing belt done, so we decided to remap. Nothing serious 150bhp and extra torque. Now it drives a little better, seems a bit more relaxed on the road, but made a difference going up the big inclines, instead of 3rd gear we now go up in 4th, but it pulls better too. Can't see any difference in MPG though.

Interesting, thanks.

The remap blokes I spoke to, said to me that, as I had the 150, they would expect to get somewhere between 10% - 20% more MPG, without a loss in pulling power. So, I guess what you have found is that if you re-map the 130, you can get more oomph, but cannot improve the MPG if you do.

Have to say, even 10% mpg would make me a very happy motorhomer.

 

[VXman]

The standard standard plate on my 140 2.3 is 1850/2000 - 3650.

The original Burstner plate is the same except the overall was 3500.

I did need air assisting the rear to get it to 4250.

So are you saying mine is on a standard chassis and therefore has different (inferior) brake spec to the maxi?

 

[Miggs]

The 130hp 7.4m I just got rid of was fine on flat but gutless and frustrating on inclines.
Hoping the new 170hp Ford i'm getting will be a lot better.
I would have remapped the old one if I was keeping it.

 

[Orion]

But the 130 struggles in the mountains and its a 7.2m van he is looking at will probably be OK in a 6.5m van. The 150 is not brilliant, not much fun when the engine practically dies on a 1 in 6 hairpin. Been there done that quite a few times.

Choose your routes carefully and avoid steep twisty roads if at all possible, as you'll find it difficult to generate enough momentum to get up them quickly and will have to drop down gears.

Something not being mentioned is how a decent auto ‘box (true auto not robotised manual) can be an absolute boon in those situations irrespective of the power available from the engine. My experience with the ZF 8 speed on the VW Amarok has ensured that I’d never consider anything else on a larger vehicle.

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[Waveski]

I’ve recently had my 2017 Fiat 130 remapped by my trusted auto-electrician. In conversation I found out he is one of the original Quantum remappers (his lock up was next to Quantum’s original workshop) He has worked on my cars and solved some tricky electrics problems in the past, he recommended a Stage 1 remap, which has been thoroughly proven over several years. This effectively turns the engine into a 160 bhp unit. The original was perfectly ok but the driveability of the van is much improved and relaxing. It’s early days but I also seem to get 2/3 mpg improvement. My only regret is not having it done earlier, cost was £299 and it took an hour to perform the upgrade at his workshop.

 

[Lenny HB]

Something not being mentioned is how a decent auto ‘box (true auto not robotised manual) can be an absolute boon in those situations irrespective of the power available from the engine. My experience with the ZF 8 speed on the VW Amarok has ensured that I’d never consider anything else on a larger vehicle.

Yep, the Comformatic can be a real pain when it decides to change gear halfway around a hairpin. On the plus side engine braking is awesome.

 

[Jolak]

I have a 6.6m 4250kg on the Fiat maxi chassis with 130bhp engine. We have persevered for 5 years then this year it had new clutch and timing belt done, so we decided to remap. Nothing serious 150bhp and extra torque. Now it drives a little better, seems a bit more relaxed on the road, but made a difference going up the big inclines, instead of 3rd gear we now go up in 4th, but it pulls better too. Can't see any difference in MPG though.

I had the same with my Rav4 and found fuel consumption was round about the same after the remap. It was because I was driving up to the higher power output. When I made a conscious effort and drove with a lighter right foot, I got very good mpg. I'm going by the figures given by the car's info system which I think is pretty accurate these days. Do you recall how much the remap cost you?

 

[Gizmouk]

If it's climbing hills that concerns you, then you need to be looking at the torque figures rather than power.
Power is how fast you hit a wall, torque is how far you push the wall down the road

 

[Jolak]

If it's climbing hills that concerns you, then you need to be looking at the torque figures rather than power.
Power is how fast you hit a wall, torque is how far you push the wall down the road

that's the best way of explaining it that I've heard!

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[barsteward]

I’ve recently had my 2017 Fiat 130 remapped by my trusted auto-electrician. In conversation I found out he is one of the original Quantum remappers (his lock up was next to Quantum’s original workshop) He has worked on my cars and solved some tricky electrics problems in the past, he recommended a Stage 1 remap, which has been thoroughly proven over several years. This effectively turns the engine into a 160 bhp unit. The original was perfectly ok but the driveability of the van is much improved and relaxing. It’s early days but I also seem to get 2/3 mpg improvement. My only regret is not having it done earlier, cost was £299 and it took an hour to perform the upgrade at his workshop.

Just checking out Quantum's web site (out of curiosity) and they have a nationwide offer for remapping the 130 2014 onwards of £249 reduced from £349.
If anyone is thinking of remapping this may be the time to get it done.

 

[gpat]

Just a general point. Gears are there to be dropped down into.

 

[gpat]

that's the best way of explaining it that I've heard!

Trouble is it's not correct.

 

[Orion]

Yep, the Comformatic can be a real pain when it decides to change gear halfway around a hairpin. On the plus side engine braking is awesome.

Not sure about the ZF 9 Speed fitted to the Ducato, but with the ZF ‘box in the Amarok it is possible to put it in ‘Tiptronic’ mode and use it as you would a manual ‘box. It will revert to auto mode if the engine starts to overrev or lug.

 

[Landy Andy]

I don‘t understand all this “it will be ok for 6.2m, but not 7.2m van”. If they are all plated to 3.5 tonne what difference does the length make when talking power??

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[Gizmouk]

Trouble is it's not correct.

Go on then, your explanation:

 

[Minxy]

I don‘t understand all this “it will be ok for 6.2m, but not 7.2m van”. If they are all plated to 3.5 tonne what difference does the length make when talking power??

It doesn't ... except ... with a longer vehicle when you go uphill the weight shifts more to the rear so the longer it is the more comes off the front drive wheels so traction could be an issue.

 

[gpat]

Go on then, your explanation:

I think your description is how the difference in speed and momentum is explained.

The simplest explanation is that torque and be regarded as power divided by rpm. That is effectively saying the amount of power you get for the same amount of work.
It basically a mathematical calculator but tje result of having a good peak torque figure is that it is at more usable rpms. Often referred to as pulling power.

 

[Landy Andy]

It doesn't ... except ... with a longer vehicle when you go uphill the weight shifts more to the rear so the longer it is the more comes off the front drive wheels so traction could be an issue.

Agree so the length makes no difference. And if traction is a problem, less power would be better, but don’t think 1 meter of van makes much difference.

The smaller engines often have smaller wheels, so they are geared differently, and many people fill their vans with all sorts of crap, update them, tow with them. My 130 van is certainly powerful enough to do its job, and that is with a 7.2 metre van.

 

[gpat]

Agree so the length makes no difference. And if traction is a problem, less power would be better, but don’t think 1 meter of van makes much difference.

The smaller engines often have smaller wheels, so they are geared differently, and many people fill their vans with all sorts of crap, update them, tow with them. My 130 van is certainly powerful enough to do its job, and that is with a 7.2 metre van.

The length does make some difference but its marginal so you are correct. The mass is the biggest influence followed by the drag factor. Length makes the drag factor increase, but not proportionally.

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