Is 130 BHP enough?

[gpat]

It doesn't ... except ... with a longer vehicle when you go uphill the weight shifts more to the rear so the longer it is the more comes off the front drive wheels so traction could be an issue.

The traction issue is the same though however powerful the engine is.

 

[Bessy765]

We had a 2012 Elddis Aspire 255, bought new it came with a paper upgraded to 3700 uptrend from 3500 kg. Over timeI fitted semi air and changed the tyres from 215/70/r15 to 225/70/r15 to uprate it to 3850 the larger tyres gave me 2240 kg over the rear axle. Fitted a tow bar and made regular trips to our cottage in France with a full trailer of renovation gear.so always close to maximum train weight. Found it performed well once 10,000 miles on the clock. When it was 3 years old fitted a R/S performance chip. Less changing down on hills cruise ay 60 mph with loaded trailer, slight improvement on fuel. Thing to remember the clutch is the weak link so don't let it labour on hills. And you are in a motorhome not formula 1

 

[DDJC]

The length does make some difference but its marginal so you are correct. The mass is the biggest influence followed by the drag factor. Length makes the drag factor increase, but not proportionally.

Yes, but what about the impact on BHP by tuning the push-pull sprocket inertia hammer on the lateral torsion freewheel converter?
Frequently overlooked.

 

[Minxy]

Agree so the length makes no difference. And if traction is a problem, less power would be better, but don’t think 1 meter of van makes much difference.

The smaller engines often have smaller wheels, so they are geared differently, and many people fill their vans with all sorts of crap, update them, tow with them. My 130 van is certainly powerful enough to do its job, and that is with a 7.2 metre van.

The length does make some difference but its marginal so you are correct. The mass is the biggest influence followed by the drag factor. Length makes the drag factor increase, but not proportionally.

Have you seen how much cr@p some people stuff in their garages!!!

 

[TerryL]

Everybody is getting a little off-track here as to what he should buy - the OP has already bought his 130HP van - although the info is of course interesting to other readers.

What he wants is ideas of how to improve matters if he's disappointed in the performance. Everybody who says a remap is, IMO, spot on. I had our 130HP remapped by a Quantum guy and it became a different van. BHP went up to around 150 but the torque was so much better and I no longer find myself changing gears on more than a gentle incline. But everybody should remember that increased power is going to result in increased fuel consumption (unless the vehicle is badly set up to start with) and I've seen only a small improvement of around 2-3mpg, even when trying to keep my driving technique the same as before, which is probably more down to me not being tempted to use the extra oomph!

Just my opinion and twopennyworth of course!

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[TerryL]

Yes, but what about the impact on BHP by tuning the push-pull sprocket inertia hammer on the lateral torsion freewheel converter?
Frequently overlooked.

My garage disconnected that in an attempt to improve matters but Fiat put it back on.

 

[CaptainPaul]

Basically you are saying having more power is better. I'm not sure anyone would disagree there. Not necessarily a problem to have less though.

If the van I wanted had the 180 option and cost wasn't an issue I would probably have gone for that too. I'm a bit of a petrol head and like my powerful cars. However, I wouldn't say the power models are lacking.

I've a couple of powerful cars too but this wee van just seems nice with the bhp & torque it has compared to the other ones I test drove & as long as Jolak can get out on the road and enjoy it its all good

 

[Minxy]

Yes, but what about the impact on BHP by tuning the push-pull sprocket inertia hammer on the lateral torsion freewheel converter?
Frequently overlooked.

I can usually work out what most things are but that's totally flummoxed me!

 

[gpat]

I can usually work out what most things are but that's totally flummoxed me!

You are not alone

 

[DDJC]

Have you seen how much cr@p some people stuff in their garages!!!

My garage is totally full of essential stuff. Spare wheel, water butt, spare water butt, spare fridge, spare compressor for spare fridge, ladder, spare ladder, lathe, table saw. You may laugh, but don't come running to me when you need a dining chair leg turned.

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[Landy Andy]

Talking about a dual mass flywheel.

 

[DDJC]

You are not alone

( I was taking the pee over the discussion ascent into techy stuff that is beyond me )

 

[Orion]

Yes, but what about the impact on BHP by tuning the push-pull sprocket inertia hammer on the lateral torsion freewheel converter?
Frequently overlooked.

Surely becomes irrelevant if the dilithium crystals are renewed on a regular basis?

 

[Minxy]

Talking about a dual mass flywheel.

Ah, now that I understand!

 

[Richard n Ann]

Thanks for the helpful replies. I'm somewhat reassured that it will be ok. It's probably down to a memory from the dim and distant past when I hired a Luton van from a dodgy Coventry van hire firm. I had to do a removal from North Wales down to Kent and back to Coventry. It had the aerodynamics of a wardrobe and a knackered engine to match. The only time I exceeded 45mph was down hills with a tailwind. I'm forgetting that things have moved on a bit since then and I've always found hire vans nowadays alright, particularly a VW I hired a few months ago. Anyway, I can't wait to get on the road.

I'm sure it wiil be fine. I had an 85bhp transit work van in 2001 and I don't remember that being particularly slow.
Also 100bhp vivaro in 2006 was ok

The slow transit vans I drove were in the late 1980s they did slow down up hills, don't know what BHP they were but they're long gone... Oh i do see the occasional ancient Talbot motorhome crawling along.

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[Aspenshaw]

Have a 130bhp with Comfortmatic from new in 2013 (Fiat). As Miggs says, "fine on flat but gutless and frustrating on inclines".

Fuel consumption of my 3500kg 6m is 28mpg over 48,000, falling to 25mph in the Pennines and rising to 30mph+ on uninterrupted flat roads. I can do 70mph on the motorway but it drinks fuel at 20mpg or so. 60mph 25mpg or better, ease off a bit and over 27mpg on the motorway if traffic is light.

I've coped over the 9 years in Britain and with the increasing traffic and speed restrictions, find that I can keep up with most traffic until the van is asked to go up a hill - 1:3 hills are 2nd gear. Gutless encourages occasional lorries to whizz pass me but who cares? I've adjusted my driving style to 'relaxed'.

Overall, 130bhp & 3,500 kg has not deterred me from travelling in GB but I think you are going to be disappointed unless you lower your expectations or have the engine tickled.

 

[busby]

Surly the weight is the limiting factor I believe you are over 4t so yes 150bhp. 180 is always preferable but it comes at a cost.

Back in the 60/70s most artics
running at 32 tonne gross were all less than 180 bhp,,,plenty of torque though, BUSBY.

 

[gpat]

Have a 130bhp with Comfortmatic from new in 2013 (Fiat). As Miggs says, "fine on flat but gutless and frustrating on inclines".

Fuel consumption of my 3500kg 6m is 28mpg over 48,000, falling to 25mph in the Pennines and rising to 30mph+ on uninterrupted flat roads. I can do 70mph on the motorway but it drinks fuel at 20mpg or so. 60mph 25mpg or better, ease off a bit and over 27mpg on the motorway if traffic is light.

I've coped over the 9 years in Britain and with the increasing traffic and speed restrictions, find that I can keep up with most traffic until the van is asked to go up a hill - 1:3 hills are 2nd gear. Gutless encourages occasional lorries to whizz pass me but who cares? I've adjusted my driving style to 'relaxed'.

Overall, 130bhp & 3,500 kg has not deterred me from travelling in GB but I think you are going to be disappointed unless you lower your expectations or have the engine tickled.

The comfortmatic gearbox eats some of the power. Auto's generally benefit from extra bhp. I don't know the technical reason for that though.

 

[L' Hobo]

As lots of others have said their piece, so I might as well add mine.

My PCV is a late 2007 X250 Fiat Ducato without (from new) a DPF or Cat. It has a 120bhp 2.3ltr engine. It is classed as Euro 4.

I have never had any problems going up, or down hills (although it is a problem keeping it down to 70mph on motorways )
If I had, I would get it mapped to give more torque. Isn't it the same 2.3ltr engine in the 120,130 and 150bhp?

I use mine 12months a year and change the engine oil & filters every year and the gearbox oil every 4yrs.
(The biggest difference was when I first changed the gearbox oil when I bought it in 2017 and lately, removing the heavy TV scanner from roof.)

OP, did you not subject your vehicle to a comprehensive test drive before purchase?? I would have.

 

[Minxy]

The comfortmatic gearbox eats some of the power. Auto's generally benefit from extra bhp. I don't know the technical reason for that though.

We've discussed getting our Carthago done, it's a comfortmatic 150bhp 2.3, 3850kg max (probably ride with it around 3500kg), but hubby has said it changes down gear going up hills too soon for his liking so I assume this would help?

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[Minxy]

I suppose one of the major considerations is whether there is another with the larger bhp engine available or not to buy instead, I suspect not so if it's a choice of having this one and remapping or waiting to see if a bigger engine ones comes along I know which I'd choose ... gimme it now!

 

[Jolak]

As lots of others have said their piece, so I might as well add mine.

My PCV is a late 2007 X250 Fiat Ducato without (from new) a DPF or Cat. It has a 120bhp 2.3ltr engine. It is classed as Euro 4.

I have never had any problems going up, or down hills (although it is a problem keeping it down to 70mph on motorways )
If I had, I would get it mapped to give more torque. Isn't it the same 2.3ltr engine in the 120,130 and 150bhp?

I use mine 12months a year and change the engine oil & filters every year and the gearbox oil every 4yrs.
(The biggest difference was when I first changed the gearbox oil when I bought it in 2017 and lately, removing the heavy TV scanner from roof.)

OP, did you not subject your vehicle to a comprehensive test drive before purchase?? I would have.

I haven't had the opportunity yet. I've only paid a deposit which I can lose if I back out. Looking back, I should have driven it before deciding but the Dealer seems reputable and has good reviews. Having read the helpful comments on here, I'm pretty sure I'll be alright and if I change it after a year, I'm sure I won't be the first to do that. Where the money will come from is another question.

 

[busby]

I haven't had the opportunity yet. I've only paid a deposit which I can lose if I back out. Looking back, I should have driven it before deciding but the Dealer seems reputable and has good reviews. Having read the helpful comments on here, I'm pretty sure I'll be alright and if I change it after a year, I'm sure I won't be the first to do that. Where the money will come from is another question.

It will be fine BUSBY.

 

[gpat]

I haven't had the opportunity yet. I've only paid a deposit which I can lose if I back out. Looking back, I should have driven it before deciding but the Dealer seems reputable and has good reviews. Having read the helpful comments on here, I'm pretty sure I'll be alright and if I change it after a year, I'm sure I won't be the first to do that. Where the money will come from is another question.

I am sure you will have no problem either.

 

[Lenny HB]

I don‘t understand all this “it will be ok for 6.2m, but not 7.2m van”. If they are all plated to 3.5 tonne what difference does the length make when talking power??

Simple 3500 is the gross, a 6.5m van will be lighter than a 7.2m van. Also a 7.2m van will be almost impossible to run at 3500kg legally.

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[tonyidle]

The comfortmatic gearbox eats some of the power. Auto's generally benefit from extra bhp. I don't know the technical reason for that though.

The Comfortmatic is a true manual with a Fiat goblin doing the gear changes. Unless those changes allow the vehicle to run at an uneconomical engine speed then consumption should be no worse than if the driver changed gear. A torque converter automatic can waste power in the torque converter itself (around 10% slip) but even that is dramatically reduced as modern auto boxes lock-up the torque converter whenever possible.

 

[gpat]

The Comfortmatic is a true manual with a Fiat goblin doing the gear changes. Unless those changes allow the vehicle to run at an uneconomical engine speed then consumption should be no worse than if the driver changed gear. A torque converter automatic can waste power in the torque converter itself (around 10% slip) but even that is dramatically reduced as modern auto boxes lock-up the torque converter whenever possible.

Yes. I thought that. But the performance of them is often quoted as been poorer, although FIAT actually claims it is better and more efficient. It doesn't back this up with mpg data though.

 

[IRHP]

Yep, the Comformatic can be a real pain when it decides to change gear halfway around a hairpin. On the plus side engine braking is awesome.

That's why it has a manual option.

 

[Miggs]

I was told, power determines your top speed, torque determines how quick you get there.

 

[Verteuil Man]

A couple of years ago we did the NC500 in our 5 tonne 180 bhp Hymer. There were plenty of hire vans about driven by car drivers who did not know the law. The vast majority of the hire vans have the lowest bhp engines as they are the cheapest. Driving along at 45 to 50 mph we would have several hire vans up our chuff. Get to a good l9ng climb and we would never see them again.

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