Greater Manchester Clean Air Plans - Charging Motorhomes

[PaulyP]

Im over 3500 kg so £60 a day for me. So a weekend away starts at £120 before any other costs . Cant be fair. Will have to find storage outside m60

As it applies to all of Greater Manchester, approx 400 square miles you will have to find storage a long way away.

 

[PaulyP]

No they aren't.
Councils (on behalf of the government) are saying that they only want cleaner engined vehicles in heavily polluted areas and if you insist on driving a polluting vehicle in a particular area there will be a price to pay. It is a charge, not a tax.

So it’s not about clean air, you can use a polluting vehicle as long as you pay, it’s all about making money.

 

[TDub49]

The fact is that there is too much personal transport in areas where it makes no sense - i.e. cities. There is too much because we all want our own vehicle and successive governments have absolutely failed to come upon with a useable and affordable public transport system. Perhaps the solution (which I see is already being hinted at by the "party of low taxation") is road pricing - you pay for every mile of every road you use, with congestion charges being levied at peak times etc. The tech exists, especially with the new EVs with their internet links back to the manufacturer collecting reams of data about your every move, to collect this remotely and it would just put personal transport on to a subscription basis along with the many other subscriptions that people are happy to sign up to.

 

[EuroTrotters]

It’s classed as a private HGV so reduced to £10 per day.

That has not been confirmed yet, has it?

 

[dunnah01]

Why is it about a fiver for the life of the vehicle in every other country except the UK where it can be up to £100/day?

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[PaulyP]

Why is it about a fiver for the life of the vehicle in every other country except the UK where it can be up to £100/day?

Because it’s rip off Britain.

 

[SpeedyDux]

I think you’d need to change eating habits first . Rather than 20 cars making the journey to pick up a take away it would seem better for environment and for congestion for 1 car to do 20 drop offs. Is that how it works?
As for MOT tax and insurance not sure how customers can check that.

The main consumers of takeaway deliveries (using foreigners driving ratty Micras and Fiestas) in my street are young tenants. Someone forgot to teach them how to cook from scratch. They have their cars and motorcycles too.

 

[Redken]

Greater Manchester has contracted with French company for £50m to run the scheme. Central government only said measures to be put into place by 2024 to combat pollution. Its the councils who have chosen fines they could put other measures in and not charge. The pollution is now non existent, the figures they used were pre covid. Prior to that they engineered the congestion to qualify for a COZ. So there is no need for this. Its all about fleecing us!

 

[Simon Meadwell]

As it applies to all of Greater Manchester, approx 400 square miles you will have to find storage a long way away.

No i can drive 10 miles or so to derbyshire and circumnavigate around the m 60 no charge

 

[PaulyP]

I have copied this as it’s so true !



Not a political post as such .

Purely fact !

Inflation 5.4 % ( highest in three decades )
FACT
Gas and electric prices set to almost double for thousands of people already struggling to feed and heat their families.
FACT
Thousands of small businesses owners sent to the wall due to 2 years of pandemic
FACT
National insurance soon to rise
Road fund licence soon to rise
Etc etc etc.

ALL FACT

And as if this it not enough the man of the people ! Andy burnham is presiding over one of the BIGGEST most damaging hidden under a different name tax ever to be imposed on the people of greater Manchester.

Won’t affect you

Think again

Average cost to drive per 24 hr period in Greater Manchester

£7.50 to £60 per day

Average cost to local tradesmen and his van £10 per day
Within the entire just short of 500 square miles of Greater Manchester

You think this is fair ?

This includes anyone who has a van for work and pleasure as can’t afford both

Anyone who uses a vehicle for leisure ( campervan, horsebox, fishing trips etc etc etc)

So recently they have announced a delay go part one of the scheme for 1 year . This was always the case !!!!

But don’t worry it won’t affect you because you only have a car

WRONG

London ULEZ ( ultra low emissions zone ) to expand and cover all vehicles

Yes all vehicles whether they are petrol diesel oh and yes ELECTRIC

Won’t affect you cos surely transport companies and small car owners won’t put up prices to cover this .

Everyone from builders to skip companies to ice cream vans are going to charge YOU for this.

But it’s ok until you see the bills through the door to drive your car in Manchester.

Remember even at £10 per day that’s £3650 per year on top of road tax , fuel tax and everything else it costs to drive today.

Did I mention the help that is on offer ?

No well out simply if you somehow qualify for a grant you can get £5k ( free money as someone recently put it ) towards a compliant van starting at circa £40k

Cannot get this grant unless you buy from accredited dealers

Nor can you get a new van within the current order time of 1 year

Help to retrofit ( system to improve emissions) not currently available to over 90% of vehicles

So let’s go back to free money

Is there such a thing ? Er I think not
Everything in this country given with one hand will ultimately be taken back with another , Just I might add is exactly what will happen with all the furlough given out over the pandemic period.

I Appreciate this is long winded I sldo appreciate there will be many out there that welcomes this approach!

All I ask is that you look at the facts for yourself

Greater Manchester on the whole does not have a clean air problem

This will destroy so many hard working people trying to get by

This will sends thousands into debt and quite possibly depression

Please please I beg you all , take a look at this and decide for yourself

Even the Mayor of Greater Manchester has agreed that this until now has hardly been publicised , Why I ask you do you think that is ?

This is an unfair unjust taxation forced upon us . Remember the poll tax ? I do and look as the misery that caused.

Lastly ( I promise ) just to reiterate

THIS IS NOTHING POLITICAL I don’t care whether conservative labour whoever it is just wrong !!!

Www.rethinkgm.co.uk

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[dunnah01]

It would actually be cheaper to downplate to sub 3.5t and then uplate again if in the zone for more than a week!

 

[EuroTrotters]

Our Motorhome is over 3.5t (3,850 KG). So classed as PHG. We have a 4 Green Umwelt and Crit'air 3.

Unless we get the suggested residents reduction to £10.00, I won't be paying the £60.00 I will have to sell the MH or Move! In ordinary times, we use the motorhome very often, say 20 times a year. So, £2,400.00 a year in charges, £24,000 over ten years if they don't put charges up. Our bloody council tax is £2,600 a year and we only spend 6 months here.

If I take it across the road for an MOT, its £60.00 charge. If they keep it overnight, that's £120.00

A weekend away walking and cycling in the Lake or Peak District with our Grandchildren, £120.00 Utter disgrace, Thats on top of the £10.00 a day or at least £2,500.00 a year for my Daily Euro V van.

So, providing we do not change vehicles and allowing for charge increases. Staying here in this house in GM, as working couple, will result in charges for Council Tax and CAZ of £75,000.00 - £100,000.00 Providing they do not start charging cars !

I’ve successfully applied for residents discount, Greater Manchester CAZ £10 instead of £60 until 2027. PHG MOTORHOME

 

[PaulyP]

I’ve successfully applied for residents discount, Greater Manchester CAZ £10 instead of £60 until 2027. PHG MOTORHOME

So your prepared to pay it, once the scheme is in it will keep going up, never down in price, they have tried to sneak it in thinking everybody is preoccupied with Covid and won’t notice, cannot really say what I would like to say about our local governments as I’d be banned for bad language.

 

[EuroTrotters]

So your prepared to pay it, once the scheme is in it will keep going up, never down in price, they have tried to sneak it in thinking everybody is preoccupied with Covid and won’t notice, cannot really say what I would like to say about our local governments as I’d be banned for bad language.

We have to pay it if it goes through. Can’t say I’m happy

 

[nicholsong]

I’ve successfully applied for residents discount, Greater Manchester CAZ £10 instead of £60 until 2027. PHG MOTORHOME

Trev

Does one pay the charge per diem regardless of driving or not, like the Swiss .3.5t charge? Or only when driving, like London?

Geoff

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[EuroTrotters]

Trev

Does one pay the charge per diem regardless of driving or not, like the Swiss .3.5t charge? Or only when driving, like London?

Geoff

Per driven days you trigger the spy cams

 

[POH]

So your prepared to pay it, once the scheme is in it will keep going up, never down in price, they have tried to sneak it in thinking everybody is preoccupied with Covid and won’t notice, cannot really say what I would like to say about our local governments as I’d be banned for bad language.

Hi Pauly , I also live in Urmston and I don't even know where it starts or ends , only seen one sign that say zone ends.

 

[mofurt]

Per driven days you trigger the spy cams

Is it possible to set up an auto pay, or do you have to go online every day? Trying to figure out the best way to manage this for my parents, when/if it kicks off. They don't do internet. And hardly use their camper - it's quite possible that when they do use it for short trips to do a big shop (it's their only vehicle) they won't trigger cameras, as the supermarket is quite close and only a tiny stretch of main road. But day trips - e.g. going to the next village to park up and walk down the canal - will become very expensive for them.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Is it possible to set up an auto pay, or do you have to go online every day? Trying to figure out the best way to manage this for my parents, when/if it kicks off. They don't do internet. And hardly use their camper - it's quite possible that when they do use it for short trips to do a big shop (it's their only vehicle) they won't trigger cameras, as the supermarket is quite close and only a tiny stretch of main road. But day trips - e.g. going to the next village to park up and walk down the canal - will become very expensive for them.

 

[PaulyP]

Hi Pauly , I also live in Urmston and I don't even know where it starts or ends , only seen one sign that say zone ends.

As it’s the whole of greater Manchester soon as you come of the motorway, or leaving your driveway heading to the motorway they will catch you on camera, I’m on Davyhulme Road, where are you ?

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[PaulyP]

View attachment 581491

Depending on size as too how much it will cost, as far as I know you have a week in which too pay, no letters to tell you that you have a charge to pay you just have to know, if the vehicle is chargeable then if you use it you pay. If not paid within a seven day period you will then get a fine in the post for £120 it’s just an excuse for a complete rip off.

 

[mofurt]

And if anything like London's congestion charge, you can't check if you owe anything (or at least you couldn't). So when my wife got lost around there and wasn't sure if she'd strayed in or not (she'd seen signs, but wasn't sure if she'd gone through them or they were just warnings of the zone ahead), we had to pay on the off-chance rather than risk a fine.
Wouldn't be so bad if you could log in once a week and pay anything due.

 

[Wack]

A factory my business buys from in China (yes, part of the 85% or so of stuff you and the world buys is made there), has put back some orders due to government notification the city is exceeding its emissions limit so has to go on restricted production hours!!
They might not be doing the same things at the same time as we are, but they have a lot of air pollution, and recognise the need to move away from coal dependancy.
I wonder how long it will be before you blame them when you next phone, tablet, power tool, curtain rail, light bulb or whatever you buy has become more expensive after they impose an export tax to reduce the demand?
Before you tell us more rubbish. No. We no longer have the factories etc to take back all this manufacturing. If we did, think how much pollution that would generate?
Being a hateful regime that is treating some of its people intolerably and planning world domination has been facilitated by all of us buying our goods from there.

I don't think I've ever bought anything from China , I have no control over where companies I buy from in the UK source their stock.

Depending on size as too how much it will cost, as far as I know you have a week in which too pay, no letters to tell you that you have a charge to pay you just have to know, if the vehicle is chargeable then if you use it you pay. If not paid within a seven day period you will then get a fine in the post for £120 it’s just an excuse for a complete rip off.

Runcorn bridge has made millions annually from the fines ,no toll booths , cross Monday you have until 11.59pm Tuesday to pay then £2 toll to £20 fine , I'd expect this to be the same

 

[jongood]

Runcorn bridge has made millions annually from the fines ,no toll booths , cross Monday you have until 11.59pm Tuesday to pay then £2 toll to £20 fine , I'd expect this to be the same

Quite, the old bridge was Free and the now they both cost.

 

[PaulyP]

I don't think I've ever bought anything from China , I have no control over where companies I buy from in the UK source their stock.

Runcorn bridge has made millions annually from the fines ,no toll booths , cross Monday you have until 11.59pm Tuesday to pay then £2 toll to £20 fine , I'd expect this to be the same

Similar except range between £10 to £60 then £120 fine, complete rip of.

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[Maryg]

It’s the whole of GManchester , 500 sq miles which includes anywhere off the M60’ and M62 , that can’t be right , especially as the quality of the air is well within safe levels. The public transport infrastructure outside of city centre areas is poor.

 

[Redken]

Go on Facebook and join Rethink greater Manchester clean air zone. It will open your eyes. It has 90k members and growing. Filter through some of the rants and there’s some good stuff. Ignore the I am alright Jack posts on here, it’s going to effect everyone

 

[Rosemary1]

Entering the CAZ area with a non-compliant vehicle is optional, not compulsory, ergo it is not a tax

Unless you live in that zone. P.s. I don’t but would be very annoyed it I did

 

[SpeedyDux]

It’s the whole of GManchester , 500 sq miles which includes anywhere off the M60’ and M62 , that can’t be right , especially as the quality of the air is well within safe levels. The public transport infrastructure outside of city centre areas is poor.

If it is like the town I live in, the Council chooses carefully where to sample the air. That is a few places on the congested major roads where the Council's own actions have created gridlock during the rush hour. The Council wants to claim that the air quality fails to meet the standard required.

These CAZ have a dual purpose. The high level of charges is a giveaway.

First, to raise money via this stealth tax and fines which is far more than needed to cover cost of installation and operation.

Second, as part of an overall strategy to reduce private car ownership. Price the motorists off the roads. Force them to use the bus or cycle to work. Private car ownership is so 20th century, a Junior Minister said recently.

Example: Recently, a Planning application to develop 70 new dwellings on our Green Belt was refused. One reason being that the developer hadn't provided fewer parking spaces than dwellings on the plans. Really? Is this what the buyers want, or what the Great Reset is all about? Otherwise, the application for residential development in the Green Belt would probably have been permitted. In the end the Developer will get its way. This is a mere hiccup despite what locals want regarding the Green Belt and overdevelopment in the area.

Typically each newbuild dwelling would increase the actual number of private cars by an average of 1.7 (or let's say 2) cars, so in the real world the new development of 70 dwellings would require about 150 parking spaces to include adequate parking for visitors' and tradesmen's vehicles. That level of parking provision is now against Planning policy. It is 100% predictable that the end result will be cars parked randomly along estate roads and verges because owners have nowhere else. I have witnessed this kind of parking on a new estate obstruct a fire engine on a 999 call. The crew had to get out and physically move some cars out of their way. Likewise, ambulances get delayed.

 

[Zakattak]

Great business model, you don't tell your customer they owe you money or how much and then you can slap a hefty fine on them for none or incorrect payment. Stinks. What about none disclosure or freedom of information.

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