Greater Manchester Clean Air Plans - Charging Motorhomes

[GJH]

in effect they are saying “ you can’t come here unless you pay” that’s what I was saying, it’s just another tax.

No they aren't.
Councils (on behalf of the government) are saying that they only want cleaner engined vehicles in heavily polluted areas and if you insist on driving a polluting vehicle in a particular area there will be a price to pay. It is a charge, not a tax.

 

[olley]

From wiki
A tax is a mandatory compulsory financial charge or some other type of levy imposed on a taxpayer's (an individual or legal entity) income by a governmental organization in order to fund government spending and various public expenditures.

 

[Wabs]

No they aren't.
Councils (on behalf of the government) are saying that they only want cleaner engined vehicles in heavily polluted areas and if you insist on driving a polluting vehicle in a particular area there will be a price to pay. It is a charge, not a tax.

And where does this ‘charge” go to? If the answer is Councils,, then it is a form of tax

 

[Badknee]

Not wanting to sound numb, but how do they know when I am using my moho?
I live within the proposed Manchester zone and my moho is private HGV

The signs have gone up near us, the cameras will be next. Big brother is watching you

 

[Wabs]

The signs have gone up near us, the cameras will be next. Big brother is watching you

at this rate we will be taxed for walking out of the front door

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[ronecc1]

Thank goodness We moved out of Gtr Manchester. a few decades ago. Trouble is, we have family and friends who live just inside the ring. Our grandson has numerous vans for his business, plus a camper, And a lot of his work is done in the area, so, thankyou burnham, you have just increased job costs, or reduced somone's income with your 'tax'.

 

[Badknee]

This is a screen shot from the government website after entering my registration number. You may think your private hgv as I did but I would check. We’re @5250kgs.

 

[Badknee]

Thank goodness We moved out of Gtr Manchester. a few decades ago. Trouble is, we have family and friends who live just inside the ring. Our grandson has numerous vans for his business, plus a camper, And a lot of his work is done in the area, so, thankyou burnham, you have just increased job costs, or reduced somone's income with your 'tax'.

#MeToo but it’s not just “inside the ring” it’s the whole of GM, it’s a massive area that never gets polluted.

 

[phase3begins]

My favourite Teeshirt slogan.
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF PEOPLE.
1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete data.

 

[georgio]

#MeToo but it’s not just “inside the ring” it’s the whole of GM, it’s a massive area that never gets polluted.

Greater Manchester is bigger than some Counties to give some Idea of scale

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[georgio]

Crikey, just noticed Bradford of all places is starting next year with a clean air zone as if putting on a stab proof vest was,nt enough and dodging the crash for cash scammers.

 

[GJH]

And where does this ‘charge” go to? If the answer is Councils,, then it is a form of tax

I see that Dartford Borough Council has a museum which, amongst other things, sells books.
The charge for the books goes to Dartford Council. Is that a form of tax? Of course not.
A charge is a charge, not a tax

 

[Rumour and Innuendo]

I have said this on Facebook, I think we are rapidly becoming a two tier nation of drivers. If you can afford it, you will drive where you want. If like me you cannot afford it, you are excluded from many places on economic grounds. It is a form of discrimination. I agree we have to do something about our air quality in towns and cities, but this is a very divisive way to go about it.

If a vehicle is too polluting to travel in an area, then it should be banned from that area. Just paying a charge won't make it cleaner. Yes I know, it is about reducing the number of polluting vehicles and that is where it becomes divisive as I said above. A much fairer way would be to ban all vehicles that are classed as too polluting and keep them out of the areas. BUT they should not be allowed to encompass a whole region of the country like they have done in Greater Manchester. They should not be able to "green" and area where no viable alternative route is available... Looking at you BATH! (Yes it is possible, but it is not an easy route and just forces traffic into other unsuitable areas. Plus one lot of roadworks or a crash, there may not be an alternative to entering the zone!)

Another thing to ruminate on. Like the EU, I think this is going to be a rolling charge. That is, certain vehicles will be OK now, but as the tech gets more advanced or the sales of IC engine vehicles is stopped for new vehicles, we will all be hit. So those at the moment happy that you are exempt.. They came for us today, they will come for you tomorrow.

 

[GJH]

thankyou burnham, you have just increased job costs, or reduced somone's income with your 'tax'.

Why blame Burnham? The CAZ has to be implemented because it is a legal requirement passed by parliament. Burnham, like leaders of all affected councils, has no option but to comply wit the law.

 

[buttons]

Thank goodness We moved out of Gtr Manchester. a few decades ago. Trouble is, we have family and friends who live just inside the ring. Our grandson has numerous vans for his business, plus a camper, And a lot of his work is done in the area, so, thankyou burnham, you have just increased job costs, or reduced somone's income with your 'tax'.

How about a straight swap Burnham for Khan..

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[Wabs]

I see that Dartford Borough Council has a museum which, amongst other things, sells books.
The charge for the books goes to Dartford Council. Is that a form of tax? Of course not.
A charge is a charge, not a tax

As you’ve stated, they sell books, when you buy something it’s not a charge it’s a purchase, so obviously it’s not a tax.

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

Why blame Burnham? The CAZ has to be implemented because it is a legal requirement passed by parliament. Burnham, like leaders of all affected councils, has no option but to comply wit the law.

I don't know the answer, that's why I'm asking but did the Govt insist on the whole of GM being included in the zone or was that down to Burnham and co?

 

[acropolis22]

Deleted repetition.

 

[dunnah01]

Is it charged every day you're in the zone even if parked up on a campsite

 

[Scout]

woo hooo something is free at last

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[ronecc1]

Crikey, just noticed Bradford of all places is starting next year with a clean air zone as if putting on a stab proof vest was,nt enough and dodging the crash for cash scammers.

I have a Bradford post code, but live in the Dales, just hope I am far enough away.

 

[ronecc1]

How about a straight swap Burnham for Khan..

They will soon be 'twinned'

 

[GJH]

I don't know the answer, that's why I'm asking but did the Govt insist on the whole of GM being included in the zone or was that down to Burnham and co?

From reading the documentation, of both Manchester and other places, the extents of the zones are a matter of agreement between the councils and government.
On the face of it the extent of the Manchester CAZ seems large but the reasons (high levels of pollution on roads such as the A57) are given in the documentation. The A57 is a good example. As a trunk toad (so managed by National Highways) it would not normally be included in a CAZ but the government made an exeption because of pollution levels.

 

[GJH]

As you’ve stated, they sell books, when you buy something it’s not a charge it’s a purchase, so obviously it’s not a tax.

Exactly. Just as one purchases the right to take a polluting vehicle into a CAZ by paying the necessary charge

 

[Figaro]

Exactly. Just as one purchases the right to take a polluting vehicle into a CAZ by paying the necessary charge

No, buying a book is optional, the caz is compulsory and funds go to government so it's a tax

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[Colinyellowspanner]

Done. They seem to be suggesting a scrappage scheme. Its ridiculous to think that the theoretical lower emmisions from usage would ever be less than the emmisions in manufacturing a new one.

I read years ago that a vehicle, during manufacture, consumes 4 times as much energy than it will ever consume during its life.

 

[robnchris]

No they aren't.
Councils (on behalf of the government) are saying that they only want cleaner engined vehicles in heavily polluted areas and if you insist on driving a polluting vehicle in a particular area there will be a price to pay. It is a charge, not a tax.

Sorry Graham I don't go along with this scenario, the objective is to have cleaner air in the city, so the way to achieve that is totally ban the polluting vehicles but the powers that be haven't done that.
Instead they have said if you can afford it you CAN pollute the air.
One rule for the poorer classes and one rule for the richer.
That can not be right.

 

[LesW]

It wouldn't be so bad if, say for instance, the taxes collected were used to help by lowering or doing away with public transport fares.

... but as we all know they will p*ss any monies collected up the wall on their favorite agenda.

 

[2657]

Numberplate recognition camera-they are everywher, so whenever and wherever you drive they know and can track yo. Unfortunately Big Brother arrived years ago-we are living in 1984!

I think maybe triclops was asking about just driving about within the zone, as they live inside? Probably no difference as I imagine there are cameras throughout the zone, not just at entry and exit?

I think that what triclops was asking referred to is once in the zone and parked up at home does the daily charge still apply.

 

[Wabs]

Exactly. Just as one purchases the right to take a polluting vehicle into a CAZ by paying the necessary charge

Sorry, I disagree, but that’s how life is

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