Greater Manchester Clean Air Plans - Charging Motorhomes

[Wabs]

From reading the documentation, of both Manchester and other places, the extents of the zones are a matter of agreement between the councils and government.
On the face of it the extent of the Manchester CAZ seems large but the reasons (high levels of pollution on roads such as the A57) are given in the documentation. The A57 is a good example. As a trunk toad (so managed by National Highways) it would not normally be included in a CAZ but the government made an exeption because of pollution levels.

To enable them to grab more taxes

 

[Badknee]

I think that what triclops was asking referred to is once in the zone and parked up at home does the daily charge still apply.

I think the CAZ cameras are only watching on the start of the zone so going in you get charged, driving around or leaving the zone their not checking. If you go into it your charged but parked on your drive is free, going out on a trip is free but when you return home, bingo, pay the man

 

[Brains]

I think the CAZ cameras are only watching on the start of the zone so going in you get charged, driving around or leaving the zone their not checking. If you go into it your charged but parked on your drive is free, going out on a trip is free but when you return home, bingo, pay the man

That is not true in London.
They not only have ANPR cameras on all the entrances and exists to the LEZ but also on many of the major junctions and on all the river crossings, therefore if you drive around you are liable to be caught at some point.

 

[GJH]

Sorry Graham I don't go along with this scenario, the objective is to have cleaner air in the city, so the way to achieve that is totally ban the polluting vehicles but the powers that be haven't done that.
Instead they have said if you can afford it you CAN pollute the air.
One rule for the poorer classes and one rule for the richer.
That can not be right.

I don't disagree with you about the rule Rob. The point I was replying to, though, is that it is a charge not a tax.
As we have seen only in the last 24 hours, morality is not strong at the head of government

 

[GJH]

No, buying a book is optional, the caz is compulsory and funds go to government so it's a tax

Entering the CAZ area with a non-compliant vehicle is optional, not compulsory, ergo it is not a tax

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[Figaro]

Entering the CAZ area with a non-compliant vehicle is optional, not compulsory, ergo it is not a tax

Try argueing that point with some living inside the caz with a non-compliant motorhome

 

[Wabs]

Entering the CAZ area with a non-compliant vehicle is optional, not compulsory, ergo it is not a tax

Hence by your own comment,,the Gov and councils are taking away your freedom of movement and charging you for the pleasure,,,( which is a tax) the big issue for me is, if the CAZ was such a big issue to them,why not blanket ban vehicles completely? Oh dear , that would mean no extra charges or taxes for the coffers, which is spent where ?

 

[GJH]

Try argueing that point with some living inside the caz with a non-compliant motorhome

I argued for exemption for such people in the consultations for both the London and Manchester schemes.
I agree it is unfair but it is still not a tax

Hence by your own comment,,the Gov and councils are taking away your freedom of movement and charging you for the pleasure,,,( which is a tax) the big issue for me is, if the CAZ was such a big issue to them,why not blanket ban vehicles completely? Oh dear , that would mean no extra charges or taxes for the coffers, which is spent where ?

What freedom of movement is that? Being able to drive a vehicle is a privilege, not a right.
Read all the documentation and learn why it isn't all vehicles that are banned.

 

[Figaro]

What freedom of movement is that? Being able to drive a vehicle is a privilege, not a right.

So who grants these privileges to the citizens ? Last time I looked this country allowed free unrestricted movement to all. Recent covid restrictions excepted.

 

[mitzimad]

You've got of cheap its 12.50 a day to move ours off the drive

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[Arnside037]

You've got of cheap its 12.50 a day to move ours off the drive

Crikey, thats £4500 a year. Over ten years that's £45,000. About enough to buy a replacement!!
But hey, isn't that the point of all this? Getting us all to change to more environmental friendly transport.
(And yes, I know someone who uses his small campervan as his daily transport. He's a brickie so needs to visit different sites daily and so can't use alternatives or use public transport. )
I am sympathetic and not taking sides and it doesnt help that there isn't a choice in any EV moho at the moment.

 

[GJH]

So who grants these privileges to the citizens ? Last time I looked this country allowed free unrestricted movement to all. Recent covid restrictions excepted.

Parliament. That is why, in the case of driving, one has to have a licence to enjoy the privilege.

 

[coroner]

Why blame Burnham? The CAZ has to be implemented because it is a legal requirement passed by parliament. Burnham, like leaders of all affected councils, has no option but to comply wit the law.

No need to cover the whole of gt manc land why cant it just be the city and town centres

 

[GJH]

No need to cover the whole of gt manc land why cant it just be the city and town centres

Answered yesterday. See post #53.

 

[nicholsong]

Try argueing that point with some living inside the caz with a non-compliant motorhome

I think it would have been fair to exempt vehicles that had been proved to be owned by residents who had already lived in the respected zones prior to the legislation.

Or at least offer them a limited number of journeys within the zone in a year, which would have satisfied the needs of most MHomers.

Expecting MH owners to change their vehicles when they are only 5-6 years old is ridiculous and just transferring pollution to the manufacturing areas - which can then be blown by the winds into the EZs.

Geoff

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[Korova]

I live right on the GM border and new ANPR type cameras have apperared this week just off the two M6 exits near me, pointing onto the A roads to see the rear plates. My neighbour is still pumping out smoke and stink from his wood burner everyday but I'm going to get taxed (it is a tax by another name) and he's not.

 

[olley]

When is a Tax not a Tax? When its a charge.
When is a charge not a charge? When its a Tax.
I hope that's clear up any misunderstanding.

 

[Korova]

You can avoid a charge, you can't avoid a tax. I can't avoid it therefore its a tax.

 

[busby]

These are the Experts who ripped the tram systems and railway branch lines out in the 50s,,told us to buy diesel cars in the 90s,,Academic Idiots.BUSBY.

 

[busby]

Greater Manchester is bigger than some Counties to give some Idea of scale

Drive round then and of course that wont pollute as much,,,I don't think..BUSBY.

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[nicholsong]

Drive round then and of course that wont pollute as much,,,I don't think..BUSBY.

Then you may mandated to drive round on the downwind side of the area, according to the wind direction, to avoid your ploution drifting into Andy Burnham's 'Fiefdom'.

Problem their that he dues not a mandate outside the area.

And so we go on.

Geoff

 

[robnchris]

Doesn't really matter if you call it a charge or a tax it still comes out of your pocket, one thing for certain NCP car parks will take a bit of a hit as will the theatres, restaurants and shops etc. as people will just not go into the city centre.
A shrewd move by the powers that be.

 

[dunnah01]

There's quite a lot of towns and cities where it will cost some of us £60 to visit

Altrincham
Ashton-in-Makerfield
Ashton-under-Lyne
Atherton
Audenshaw
Blackrod
Bolton
Bury
Cadishead
Chadderton
Cheadle
Cheadle Hulme
Clifton
Denton
Droylsden
Dukinfield
Eccles
Failsworth
Farnworth
Golborne
Heywood
Hindley
Horwich
Hyde
Irlam
Kearsley
Leigh
Littleborough
Manchester
Middleton
Milnrow
Mossley
Oldham
Partington
Pendlebury
Prestwich
Radcliffe
Ramsbottom
Rochdale
Royton
Sale
Salford
Shaw and Crompton
Stalybridge
Stockport
Stretford
Swinton
Tyldesley
Urmston
Walkden
Westhoughton
Whitefield
Wigan
Worsley

 

[Zakattak]

Just another way to legally get your money without making the road network fit for purpose
we pay road tax to use a Vehicle (oopps now called Vehicle tax, that was a con), fuel duty plus vat on top (thats a tax on the duty ), parking fees when you want to spend money in a high street shop, now its congestion charge or should it be clean air zone charge (including vat ?) added all together you have to earn 20% more in wages in order to pay income tax on them all. now you local we are greener than you council will have the money to install more traffic calming measures and pat themselves on the back, what a great job we are doing. It's like motorists are funding there own suicide

 

[PR]

Greater Manchester is county not just a city so we're now going to be excluded from many towns and cities as a result of this excessive charge

PR
You are correct it is the government legislation being implemented by councils. I think the government should compensate vehicle owners for being excluded from zones that the road fund license already covered, just because the main government are ferried in 4x4's and the such like ( being totally funded by the working class ) does not give them the right to penalize the poor. In the future how many penalty's could a vehicle be hit with in 1 day alone? Yet another scheme to scam money from motorists !

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[GJH]

road fund license

That hasn't existed since 1936.

 

[Korova]

If governments/councils were serious about the clean air the first thing to do would be to ban deliveroo and just eat deliveries first. Rotten old cars driving around all day, many not taxed, MOT'ed etc., spreading their fumes 24 hours. The queues of delivery drivers at fast food places is ridiculous.

 

[Grianan]

If governments/councils were serious about the clean air the first thing to do would be to ban deliveroo and just eat deliveries first. Rotten old cars driving around all day, many not taxed, MOT'ed etc., spreading their fumes 24 hours. The queues of delivery drivers at fast food places is ridiculous.

I think you’d need to change eating habits first . Rather than 20 cars making the journey to pick up a take away it would seem better for environment and for congestion for 1 car to do 20 drop offs. Is that how it works?
As for MOT tax and insurance not sure how customers can check that.

 

[Korova]

I think you’d need to change eating habits first . Rather than 20 cars making the journey to pick up a take away it would seem better for environment and for congestion for 1 car to do 20 drop offs. Is that how it works?
As for MOT tax and insurance not sure how customers can check that.

Even people who live within walking distance of take aways use the delivery services!

 

[EuroTrotters]

Our Motorhome is over 3.5t (3,850 KG). So classed as PHG. We have a 4 Green Umwelt and Crit'air 3.

Unless we get the suggested residents reduction to £10.00, I won't be paying the £60.00 I will have to sell the MH or Move! In ordinary times, we use the motorhome very often, say 20 times a year. So, £2,400.00 a year in charges, £24,000 over ten years if they don't put charges up. Our bloody council tax is £2,600 a year and we only spend 6 months here.

If I take it across the road for an MOT, its £60.00 charge. If they keep it overnight, that's £120.00

A weekend away walking and cycling in the Lake or Peak District with our Grandchildren, £120.00 Utter disgrace, Thats on top of the £10.00 a day or at least £2,500.00 a year for my Daily Euro V van.

So, providing we do not change vehicles and allowing for charge increases. Staying here in this house in GM, as working couple, will result in charges for Council Tax and CAZ of £75,000.00 - £100,000.00 Providing they do not start charging cars !

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