Greater Manchester clean air plan targets motor homes

[Norfolk Nige]

So I wont be going in city centres or these zones what ever name they put on it, I will do the same amount of driving in the countryside polluting that instead. Charging is wrong, we should have Grant's, to make these dinosaur engines cleaner. I am from a conservation background, and agree these engines should be banned over time, but vehicles should also be able to use the lifetime approach, ratherthan have to create more waste including a lot of plastic, scrapping them before there use by date. We are a small, sum compared to business fleets that often change there fleets regularly due to the much higher mileage, and tax benefits to do so.

Where would the money for the grants come from. Only place is Govt, either central or local. Who pays for that and how? We do. So you either raise taxes on all, including those who never go into cities, or target those who choose to drive in the polluted areas as they are contributing to the problem. Try to make the solution self funding rather than inflict the pain on all.

 

[gpat]

Over the coming years it is going to get harder and harder to drive round in anything with less than a Euro VI rating.

As it should be. They are killing people. There shouldn't be a charge. They should be banned full stop as they do in many European cities

 

[Ninjabob]

As it should be. They are killing people. There shouldn't be a charge. They should be banned full stop as they do in many European cities

Charging is what it is all about - why do you think Khan is trying to get a charge introduced for traveling into Greater London. Don't forget DPFs do a good job of burning off the c&£p once you get out into rural areas - nice for those living there. All mayors are jumping at the opportunity for instant revenue under the banner of saving lives. Taxed to death!!

 

[glenn2926]

As it should be. They are killing people. There shouldn't be a charge. They should be banned full stop as they do in many European cities

I agree, all forms of moving vehicle should be banned from town, city centres. Literally pedestrians only, no exception. No bikes, no powered mobility scooters, no powered wheel chairs just people moving under their own efforts. This would make town and city centres much nicer places to visit. This could definitely be achieved without too much effort but won’t be because there will always be those that think they are a special case and the rules shouldn’t apply to them.

 

[Minxy]

I agree, all forms of moving vehicle should be banned from town, city centres. Literally pedestrians only, no exception. No bikes, no powered mobility scooters, no powered wheel chairs just people moving under their own efforts. This would make town and city centres much nicer places to visit. This could definitely be achieved without too much effort but won’t be because there will always be those that think they are a special case and the rules shouldn’t apply to them.

How would those with mobility issues get around?

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[dunnah01]

I agree, all forms of moving vehicle should be banned from town, city centres. Literally pedestrians only, no exception. No bikes, no powered mobility scooters, no powered wheel chairs just people moving under their own efforts. This would make town and city centres much nicer places to visit. This could definitely be achieved without too much effort but won’t be because there will always be those that think they are a special case and the rules shouldn’t apply to them.

Manchester's proposal is the whole of the county not just the town and city centre

 

[dunnah01]

As it should be. They are killing people. There shouldn't be a charge. They should be banned full stop as they do in many European cities

Along with all new electric cars

 

[Pausim]

Charging is what it is all about - why do you think Khan is trying to get a charge introduced for traveling into Greater London. Don't forget DPFs do a good job of burning off the c&£p once you get out into rural areas - nice for those living there. All mayors are jumping at the opportunity for instant revenue under the banner of saving lives. Taxed to death!!

Despite DPFs they still emit NOX, particularly the pre Euro6 diesels which are the ones being targeted.

 

[GJH]

All mayors are jumping at the opportunity for instant revenue under the banner of saving lives.

Nothing to do with <Broken link removed> then?

 

[Wack]

I agree, all forms of moving vehicle should be banned from town, city centres. Literally pedestrians only, no exception. No bikes, no powered mobility scooters, no powered wheel chairs just people moving under their own efforts. This would make town and city centres much nicer places to visit. This could definitely be achieved without too much effort but won’t be because there will always be those that think they are a special case and the rules shouldn’t apply to them.

What , utterly ridiculous statement , how would people get to work, businesses receive supplies , maintenance of anything, patients to hospital

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[glenn2926]

What , utterly ridiculous statement , how would people get to work, businesses receive supplies , maintenance of anything, patients to hospital

Get to work? Like I did walk. Our nearest hospital is at least five possibly six miles from the nearest town. Our town has a raised roadway two stories up for deliveries maintenance etc. Go on keep finding reasons why pedestrian towns don’t work.

 

[Simon Meadwell]

G M plans arent for the town centre they are for the whole of Greater Manchester inside the m60.

 

[cyberyacht]

As it should be. They are killing people. There shouldn't be a charge. They should be banned full stop as they do in many European cities

Anything pre Euro6? Mine is just five years old and is Euro5. I wouldn't mind betting that the number of Euro6 van owners on here is in the minority.

 

[pappajohn]

I blame our great grandparents for today's immisions by accepting the horseless carraige as everyday transport.
Had they stuck to horses the only immisions would have been horse farts.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Public transport doesn’t work. When I worked at my nearest fire station it was (still is) just about 1 1/4 miles from home. To get there by bus I would need to catch three buses as there wasn’t one from my nearest bus stop to the nearest bus stop to the station. It would also have cost about double the price of driving to work. Obviously I didn’t do either, I walked.

Edit, I would also have wasted an hour each way as the times of said buses didn’t connect with my shift start, finish times.

Point is you could have cycled the 1.1/4 miles each way, that would have contributed to your fitness regime , win win

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[GJH]

G M plans arent for the town centre they are for the whole of Greater Manchester inside the m60.

I thnk it's wider than that - within the whole of the GM border but excluding the motorways and trunk roads controlled by National Highways (with a couple of exceptions).

 

[gpat]

It is a deterrent not a tax raising exercise.

It doesn't work though does. Someone who is well off will just pay the charge. Someone is not so well off (and more likely to have an older engine) wont be able to thoil it and will be dissuaded. The only thing that works fairly is a ban. All diesels-unless having a special licence as an essential vehicle.

 

[GJH]

I blame our great grandparents for today's immisions by accepting the horseless carraige as everyday transport.
Had they stuck to horses the only immisions would have been horse farts.

Thank you John but we already have enough political party leaders

 

[glenn2926]

Point is you could have cycled the 1.1/4 miles each way, that would have contributed to your fitness regime , win win

I did sometimes but hardly worth getting the bike out for that far. It was better for fitness to try to walk faster than last time. I used the bike a bit more when I moved station but even then it was only about 3 miles each way. So tended to still walk.

 

[Pausim]

I blame our great grandparents for today's immisions by accepting the horseless carraige as everyday transport.
Had they stuck to horses the only immisions would have been horse farts.

They didn’t know any better. However we do and future generations may hold us responsible for continuing to use the horseless carriage.

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[Wack]

Get to work? Like I did walk. Our nearest hospital is at least five possibly six miles from the nearest town. Our town has a raised roadway two stories up for deliveries maintenance etc. Go on keep finding reasons why pedestrian towns don’t work.

in cities hospitals tend to be where the people are

 

[Jamesh]

At some point only electric vehicles won't be charged.

I've been contacting manufacturers about the possibility of adapting electric vehicles for wheelchair users and haven't found a single manufacturer that has a standard production vehicle that can have a rear ramp and hoist fitted and has enough headroom through the vehicle to accommodate an adult wheelchair user. One could have a side ramp but in the UK disabled spaces assume a rear ramp so a side ramp vehicle would be pretty useless in a standard disabled space. (I'm not suggesting disabled spaces should now have extra space at the side btw, just pointing out the issues for wheelchair users.)

Most manufacturers have not considered wheelchair users at all and are clueless when it comes to positioning of ramps and mechanisms, headroom and door opening.

And don't even mention how a wheelchair user is supposed to access a charging point


I will now climb down from my soap box.

What about the electric black cab? surely that must be wheelchair friendly. Is the wheel chair user the driver that would complicate things.

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Cheers James

 

[Wack]

G M plans arent for the town centre they are for the whole of Greater Manchester inside the m60.

It's a much bigger area than that

 

[Puddleduck]

What about the electric black cab? surely that must be wheelchair friendly. Is the wheel chair user the driver that would complicate things.

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Cheers James

No rear ramp possible and the doors don't open wide enough for a side ramp It might be possible to make adaptations (the company say I would have to buy one first and take it to the converter to scope this out - if not possible I doubt I would get a refund) but any adaptation voids the warranty and in any case the cost of adaptations is prohibitive for me.

I have looked at them but not practical for my everyday vehicle with only the driver at the front and no front passenger seat

They are also hybrid and not fully electric (just over 40 mile range on electric) so not future proof.

In the past I have used a wheelchair and even today have a vehicle fitted with hand controls "just in case". So worst case would be driver and passenger(s) being wheelchair users.

 

[Puddleduck]

Get to work? Like I did walk. Our nearest hospital is at least five possibly six miles from the nearest town. Our town has a raised roadway two stories up for deliveries maintenance etc. Go on keep finding reasons why pedestrian towns don’t work.

Point is you could have cycled the 1.1/4 miles each way, that would have contributed to your fitness regime , win win

I don't think my father with complex dementia would be able to either walk or cycle Specialist hospitals do tend to be in city centres. Our local hospital is over 20 miles away but is a small rural hospital and all major cases go to Edinburgh - about 50 miles away depending on which of the hospitals you need - or Newcastle or London or Bristol etc all depending on which specialist you need.

Public transport is also not an option for Dad and wheelchair adapted taxis are few and far between. We've been stranded a few times after ordering a wheelchair accessible taxi and having a standard vehicle turn up - one of the many reasons I bought the Peugeot Partner Teepee - which does not comply now of course.

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[dunnah01]

Cycling in the main conurbations of the UK is too dangerous for most so is a non starter until things are improved for them significantly

 

[Tonks]

If euro VI compliant aren’t we exempt?

You can bet your bottom dollar that within a couple of years the rules will change to include euro 6...

 

[gpat]

You can bet your bottom dollar that within a couple of years the rules will change to include euro 6...

That's right. And that's right.

 

[Pausim]

The inner London congestion zone already has a charge for Euro 6 vehicles but that is because it is a congestion charge not part of the clean air measures.

 

[frogijock]

All this banning diesel vehicals is all well and good if you live in a city close by and have reliable and frequent public transport, where Iive the bus into Skegness runs every hour, recently I was given notice of being required for jury duty, when I enquired on the internet about getting to Lincoln by public transport, I was given a list of vehicles, one was taxi to Skegness second was train from Skegness to Boston third was train from Boston to Lincoln then taxi from town centre to Crown court, the whole journey was going to take 6 hours and cost £80 each way, so public transport around here is a no go

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