Greater Manchester clean air plan targets motor homes

[dunnah01]

The real unfairness is that motorhomers can't pass the cost on, unlike goods vehicles, buses, coaches, LGVs, taxis etc.

 

[Pausim]

…or they’ll go somewhere else!

Yes but it will keep the pollution out of Manchester and very soon out every other polluted City and Town. The days of polluting vehicles are numbered, we better get used to it.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

If it’s not purely a money grab can you explain how giving the council money makes your motorhome less polluting? I for one cannot see how giving money reduces the pollution.

It doesn’t make your motorhome less polluting….are you being objrctional on purpose or cant you help it.?
The idea is to dis-incentivise….via your pocket…..you having a more polluting vehicle than a less polluting vehicle

But you know that already.

Every body knew plastic bags were not great for the environment, only when charges came in did consumption go down, but not stop
No one ( other than you maybe) suggested that if you pay for a bag it becomes ok for the environment

The next step with bags, of course, is to ban them altogether…….as with new Diesels in 99 months

 

[dunnah01]

Yes but it will keep the pollution out of Manchester and very soon out every other polluted City and Town. The days of polluting vehicles are numbered, we better get used to it.

But where will the tax revenue be raised instead?

 

[glenn2926]

……then the idea is to deter people from driving into the area…..’just go somewhere else, please’!

I wasn’t going to Manchester anyway, probably never would have done. Cities in general are pretty awful places and not the sort of places I enjoy. I still cannot see how those that do need to to cities reduce their vehicles pollution by giving the council some money.

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[AndyPK]

I wasn’t going to Manchester anyway, probably never would have done. Cities in general are pretty awful places and not the sort of places I enjoy. I still cannot see how those that do need to to cities reduce their vehicles pollution by giving the council some money.

They don’t want your money, they just want you to be less polluting should you ever decide to go there……

 

[glenn2926]

It doesn’t make your motorhome less polluting….are you being objrctional on purpose or cant you help it.?
The idea is to dis-incentivise….via your pocket…..you having a more polluting vehicle than a less polluting vehicle

But you know that already.

Every body knew plastic bags were not great for the environment, only when charges came in did consumption go down, but not stop
No one ( other than you maybe) suggested that if you pay for a bag it becomes ok for the environment

The next step with bags, of course, is to ban them altogether…….as with new Diesels in 99 months

If the councils of these places really cared about cleaning up their city they would just make all city centres completely pedestrian only, no exception whatsoever. That would have a far greater impact on air quality than just collecting money.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

I wasn’t going to Manchester anyway, probably never would have done. Cities in general are pretty awful places and not the sort of places I enjoy. I still cannot see how those that do need to to cities reduce their vehicles pollution by giving the council some money.

QED…post#63

 

[dunnah01]

I'll play the sob story that I won't be able to afford to visit my elderly housebound mother in Bolton as often as before. It's a 3-4 hour drive so we take the moho and stay over locally. This will now cost an extra few hundred quid each time. We can take the gas guzzler 4x4 and stay in a hotel a bit cheaper but at more environmental cost. What should I do?

 

[Cheshirecat57]

If the councils of these places really cared about cleaning up their city they would just make all city centres completely pedestrian only, no exception whatsoever. That would have a far greater impact on air quality than just collecting money.

There you go again…..its not about city centres……its about everywhere.

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[robnchris]

It doesn’t make your motorhome less polluting….are you being objrctional on purpose or cant you help it.?
The idea is to dis-incentivise….via your pocket…..you having a more polluting vehicle than a less polluting vehicle

But you know that already.

Every body knew plastic bags were not great for the environment, only when charges came in did consumption go down, but not stop
No one ( other than you maybe) suggested that if you pay for a bag it becomes ok for the environment

The next step with bags, of course, is to ban them altogether…….as with new Diesels in 99 months

So charging for a plastic bag hasn't solved the problem has it, Glen is right it's just another way of taking money out of your pocket, If the powers that be really wanted to make an impact and we all now know plastics are not good for the environment why don't they just ban all the plastic packaging.
Seems like half a job done, now they are focussing on clean air area's with the same approach, setting a limit above which you can still drive if you pay for it.
So plastics are still polluting the environment and vehicles will still continue to pollute the environment we'll just pay for the privilege.

 

[GJH]

If it’s not purely a money grab can you explain how giving the council money makes your motorhome less polluting? I for one cannot see how giving money reduces the pollution.

It doesn't. The idea - which is promoted by the government nationally, not by individual councils - is to incentivise people not to take such vehicles into the most polluted areas of the country.

 

[Pausim]

But where will the tax revenue be raised instead?

It is a deterrent not a tax raising exercise.

 

[GJH]

I'll play the sob story that I won't be able to afford to visit my elderly housebound mother in Bolton as often as before. It's a 3-4 hour drive so we take the moho and stay over locally. This will now cost an extra few hundred quid each time. We can take the gas guzzler 4x4 and stay in a hotel a bit cheaper but at more environmental cost. What should I do?

Leave the motorhome on site and use public transport (as we did when my Mum was still alive)

 

[Stoosal]

It doesn’t make your motorhome less polluting….are you being objrctional on purpose or cant you help it.?
The idea is to dis-incentivise….via your pocket…..you having a more polluting vehicle than a less polluting vehicle

But you know that already.

Every body knew plastic bags were not great for the environment, only when charges came in did consumption go down, but not stop
No one ( other than you maybe) suggested that if you pay for a bag it becomes ok for the environment

The next step with bags, of course, is to ban them altogether…….as with new Diesels in 99 months

Take it there will be a similar charge on central heating boilers etc in these areas to reduce pollution. Hundreds of thousands of boilers all kicking out their share of pollution and particulates. Patio heaters and Barbecues......ban or a charge......loads of particulate matter.

If they want to reduce pollution so quickly then ban/charge all objects emitting pollution?

Can you explain why my vehicle would have to pay a charge when it is cleaner than other vehicles which won’t have to pay or when it’s cleaner than an old household boiler?

Maybe it is revenue gathering after all?

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[Cheshirecat57]

So charging for a plastic bag hasn't solved the problem has it, Glen is right it's just another way of taking money out of your pocket, If the powers that be really wanted to make an impact and we all now know plastics are not good for the environment why don't they just ban all the plastic packaging.
Seems like half a job done, now they are focussing on clean air area's with the same approach, setting a limit above which you can still drive if you pay for it.
So plastics are still polluting the environment and vehicles will still continue to pollute the environment we'll just pay for the privilege.

Your as right as he is…fyi Im moving on now….

 

[glenn2926]

Leave the motorhome on site and use public transport (as we did when my Mum was still alive)

Public transport doesn’t work. When I worked at my nearest fire station it was (still is) just about 1 1/4 miles from home. To get there by bus I would need to catch three buses as there wasn’t one from my nearest bus stop to the nearest bus stop to the station. It would also have cost about double the price of driving to work. Obviously I didn’t do either, I walked.

Edit, I would also have wasted an hour each way as the times of said buses didn’t connect with my shift start, finish times.

 

[EuroTrotters]

As Puddleduck said though, at the moment pretty much all battery EVs are roller-skate type designs with the battery in the floor and under the seats. So you can't hack into it to make it wheelchair friendly. Battery vans are coming, but at the moment they are very expensive and have poor range.

And are designed around an ICE van instead of being a new specific design.

as pointed out by gromit

 

[GJH]

Public transport doesn’t work. When I worked at my nearest fire station it was (still is) just about 1 1/4 miles from home. To get there by bus I would need to catch three buses as there wasn’t one from my nearest bus stop to the nearest bus stop to the station. It would also have cost about double the price of driving to work. Obviously I didn’t do either, I walked.

Edit, I would also have wasted an hour each way as the times of said buses didn’t connect with my shift start, finish times.

At 1¼ miles I would have walked as first choice
I agree that public transport doesn't always work. It didn't for me at one place I worked at 5 miles from home (I would have had to use two buses and it would have taken a lot longer). That is not necessarily the case always though. We have regularly used public transport since buying our first motorhome 15 years ago and, with a bit of planning, found it works in general. Remember, public transport isn't cpnfined to buses

 

[Arnside037]

Am i right in my viewing of the emission map zone in the it includes part of the M6 as it passes through the Wigan area . So traveling North-South or vv would incur a charge? Similarly East-West from the M6 to connect to the M1 would incur a charge.

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[vzac]

So I wont be going in city centres or these zones what ever name they put on it, I will do the same amount of driving in the countryside polluting that instead. Charging is wrong, we should have Grant's, to make these dinosaur engines cleaner. I am from a conservation background, and agree these engines should be banned over time, but vehicles should also be able to use the lifetime approach, ratherthan have to create more waste including a lot of plastic, scrapping them before there use by date. We are a small, sum compared to business fleets that often change there fleets regularly due to the much higher mileage, and tax benefits to do so.

 

[GJH]

Am i right in my viewing of the emission map zone in the it includes part of the M6 as it passes through the Wigan area . So traveling North-South or vv would incur a charge? Similarly East-West from the M6 to connect to the M1 would incur a charge.

No. If you look at the first paragraph below the map on the page you linked to it says "It excludes the Strategic Road Network (SRN) of motorways and major trunk roads which is managed by Highways England.". It then lists a ccouple of exemptions to that overall rule.
The M6 is not affected, neither would travelling from the M6 to the M1 if you use the M62/M60 (clockwise) or the M56/M60 (anticlockwise)/M62. However, if you used the M56/M60/M67/A57/A628 you would be caught by the A57/A628 section which is one of the exemptions.

 

[dunnah01]

Leave the motorhome on site and use public transport (as we did when my Mum was still alive)

Ha ha ha - public transport doesn't exist outside of London.

 

[barsteward]

Over the coming years it is going to get harder and harder to drive round in anything with less than a Euro VI rating.

or in fact in the very, very near future EVs

 

[Mrs Drago35uk]

<Broken link removed> - please complete this

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[Wack]

I agree, I have two grandsons living in Kings Heath, Birmingham.

I would like the authorities to do a proper job though, ban all non residential and unnecessary vehicles/travel, make public transport free or very much cheaper and more reliable than it is now.

There's too much money made from transport for anything to be banned , they could improve the air through Birmingham by nationalising the M6 toll and removing the charge , a good number of vehicles on the M6 are just passing through

Including motorhomes in the Manchester tolls will make next to no difference to emissions and will cost businesses money , mine has done 36,000 miles in 13 years so the lifetime emissions are very low , no more Burr's country park because it'll annoy the hell out of me to be paying £20 more for a night than the tugger on the next pitch in his diesel range rover.

Yes things need to change but targeting barely used leisure vehicles isn't the answer, they also fail to take into account the costs involved in upgrading to a euro 6 MH, a van used for work you'd probably do it for 5k tax deductable , a motorhome for me would be 20k +

 

[Mr Drizz]

You can check if you'll be charged in a clean air zone of not.

<Broken link removed>

Strangely London isn't listed and Manchester isn't yet.

Thankfully my Citroen Dispatch is Euro 6 as it is also my daily driver.

For London.

Check your Vehicle

tfl.gov.uk

 

[funflair]

London has its own web site for LEZ and ULEZ as well as congestion zone charging, https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-d...quality/mayors-ultra-low-emission-zone-london

 

[Norfolk Nige]

I guess eventually folk will realise that humans, living the lives they live now, will lead to the end of of the planet...

Will this realisation arrive in time?

For most probably not, but the mega-rich will have it sorted out for themselves.




JJ

It won’t be the end of the planet. The planet will survive. It will just eventually rid itself of the irritant causing the problem, however rich they are. It is humankind who will not survive. The planet will.

 

[vzac]

It won’t be the end of the planet. The planet will survive. It will just eventually rid itself of the irritant causing the problem, however rich they are. It is humankind who will not survive. The planet will.

Unfortunately we are the parasite on this lump of rock, the rock will survive, we are less likely, at the rate we are gobling up the resources through our greed, and selfcentered, short termisum approach to life and resources. Ah hum, woo is me.

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