Greater Manchester clean air plan targets motor homes

[Cheshirecat57]

not really,
just an excuse to steal money under the guise of climate change.
Taking money from peoples accounts doesnt reduce CO2, and people arent going to invest 10's of thousands of pounds in a new motorhome just for 2 or 3 trips away each year. Its just stealing an extra £60 or so because they can.
But as stated many motorhomes will be Euro VI compliant anyway, but for those that arent I doubt they will buy one that is just to be classed as compliant. As usual they will just hand over the money (which is the aim). Money grab.

By their reckoning (the policy makers), full time vanlifers should get a rebate paid to them. Their overall CO2 (and other) contribution is far lower than anyone living in bricks and motor consuming without end. But of course thats not how its works, because it isnt about reducing CO2 or protecting the environment, its about ways to steal money with a back story that "justifies" it.

Taking money DOES indirectly clean the air, you are Im afraid wrong

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Setting it it at Euro5 for vehicles that have a longer life and aren't changed so often would reduce the burden on owners of leisure vehicles with little effect on air quality and pollution. It also disproportionately affects those who cannot afford to change their cars - probably the majority.

Private cars unaffected by this

 

[Jonno1103]

It's not about CO2, it's about urban Nox emissions. Diesels produce far less CO2 than petrol cars - Hybrids are the worst offenders for CO2.

I think it's typical of the world we live in. Everyone likes the idea of cleaner air but no one's prepared to pay for it.

 

[Guigsy]

Diesels produce far less CO2 than petrol cars - Hybrids are the worst offenders for CO2.

CO2 production is roughly proportional to fuel use. Making a vehicle hybrid does generally reduce it's fuel consumption and reduces it's CO2 output. Diesel is better than petrol. Hybrid is better than non-hybrid.

Because people keep getting them confused:

Local air quality issues are mainly caused by production of Nitrogen Oxides and Particulates. These gases don't actually travel far, so very local measures like Clean Air Zones in cities tackle air quality issues. Diesels are worse for local air quality than petrol. Battery vehicles are better as they have no local tail pipe emissions (although their tyres and brakes still produce some particulates).

Climate change (/Global warming) is largely thought to be from the emission of CO2. Fuel efficient vehicles produce less CO2. As far as climate change is concerned, diesel is better than petrol. But both are bad because they burn non-renewable fossil fuels and release CO2.

 

[LesW]

Taking money DOES indirectly clean the air, you are Im afraid wrong

Yeah.. Thats why London is practically traffic free.

How gullible some are.

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[Guigsy]

As a follow up... the reason for everyone's confusion was that the focus on "green" vehicles has been switched.

For years, the only thing that mattered was CO2. So car companies invested in diesel engines and made large gains in fuel efficiency, which reduced their CO2 output. Everyone was happy as it looked like cars were achieving massive reductions in greenhouse gases...

Until it was discovered that to make these diesels that fuel efficient, car companies were running the engines very lean and hot. The engines were running so hot with so much spare oxygen in the combustion chamber that huge amounts of Nitrogen Oxides were being produced. But as nobody was really looking, except during simple tests, the car companies rigged their cars to cheat the tests.

So there's been a massive backlash against diesel (probably too far) and the focus is on air quality instead.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Yeah.. Thats why London is practically traffic free.

How gullible some are.

Non taken

if you opened your eyes Im not referring to traffic levels Im referring to pollution levels

( but I suppose if your mind is closed, your eyes have no chance

 

[Jaws]

About two years ago in a fit of total boredom I mailed some MP or other asking 'if my vehicle is taxed can t be used on all roads except private toll road in the UK
Eventually I got a very cagey reply saying, basically yes.
I then mailed back asking if areas in towns that charged a pollution tax were even legal with out an act of parliament
Turns out the London area HAS got an act of parliament backing it, so I wold be interested to know if Manchester has one in place

 

[GJH]

About two years ago in a fit of total boredom I mailed some MP or other asking 'if my vehicle is taxed can t be used on all roads except private toll road in the UK
Eventually I got a very cagey reply saying, basically yes.
I then mailed back asking if areas in towns that charged a pollution tax were even legal with out an act of parliament
Turns out the London area HAS got an act of parliament backing it, so I wold be interested to know if Manchester has one in place

The necessary powers are contained in Part III of the Transport Act 2000

 

[Pausim]

With 2 grandchildren growing up in London I am pleased that something is being done about the pollution levels and I really don’t care if it is inconvenient or costly for road users. I consider children’s health and development more important whether they live in London, Manchester or Bath.

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[JJ]

I guess eventually folk will realise that humans, living the lives they live now, will lead to the end of of the planet...

Will this realisation arrive in time?

For most probably not, but the mega-rich will have it sorted out for themselves.




JJ

 

[Pausim]

but the mega-rich will have it sorted out for themselves.

They are busy buying moorings on Mount Ararat.

 

[Simon Meadwell]

My van is 3650 kg so have to pay 5 times more than 3500 kg how can that be fair. One size fits all doesn’t work. So i pay same as an 8 ltr 40 ft truck .

 

[Cheshirecat57]

I guess eventually folk will realise that humans, living the lives they live now, will lead to the end of of the planet...

Will this realisation arrive in time?

For most probably not, but the mega-rich will have it sorted out for themselves.




JJ

I agree with your point, but we will NOT cause the end of this planet
We will cause the end of ourselves….and the planet will spin-on silently in space for billions more years

 

[LesW]

With 2 grandchildren growing up in London I am pleased that something is being done about the pollution levels and I really don’t care if it is inconvenient or costly for road users. I consider children’s health and development more important whether they live in London, Manchester or Bath.

I agree, I have two grandsons living in Kings Heath, Birmingham.

I would like the authorities to do a proper job though, ban all non residential and unnecessary vehicles/travel, make public transport free or very much cheaper and more reliable than it is now.

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[Guigsy]

I agree, I have two grandsons living in Kings Heath, Birmingham.

I would like the authorities to do a proper job though, ban all non residential and unnecessary vehicles/travel, make public transport free or very much cheaper and more reliable than it is now.

I live in Birmingham city centre and use a vets in Kings Heath. I don't have a car, only the motorhome. When I need to pick up medication for the cat, all the Low Traffic Neighbourhood closures around there means it's now nearly as quick for me to cycle as it is to drive. And there's low traffic routes most of the way, so there's barely anywhere I'm playing with traffic. I'm all for it.

If the cat needs to come with me... I get a taxi.

 

[CazPaul]

In a few years it will be electric vehicles the only ones that are free in most city centres.

Is there going to be plenty of used part exchanged motorhomes taken in and replaced with full electric motorhomes.

I’m keeping our 3.0 Iveco 2005 and see what transpires going forward.

 

[dunnah01]

I'll pop out and spend 100k on a new Euro VI moho to replace my Euro IV moho. What do I care if it costs another 72000 tonnes of CO2 to make the change. Oh and I'll do it all again in a couple of years time when Euro VI start getting charged. 144000 tonnes of carbon feet compared to a few ounces of soot seems like a real step forwards in saving the planet.

 

[ElliesBoss]

And I can still buy a two tonne four litre twin turbo 400 bhp 4x4 to drive around town and everywhere else. I could buy an electric equivalent but still use four times the energy to get from A to B. Could have decimated emissions years ago if that is their goal.

 

[huck999]

Ooops!
Reading this thread I thought Id look up the class of our van. All good - PLG. Unfortunately it also said the tax had run out in June (we pay annully). No reminders or Last Chance or anything. All sorted now thanks to this thread, but I wonder how many more months we would have missed?

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[Jonno1103]

if you opened your eyes Im not referring to traffic levels Im referring to pollution levels

Exactly right...

I think some need to ask chronic Asthma sufferers about air quality, how it's improved over the last decade and how LEZ's etc are improving it further.

Air quality is 'out of sight out of mind' but we only need to remember how bad it used to be in pubs, clubs, restaurants etc before the smoking ban to realise how important it is. How about the city smog's we used to have with domestic coal fires, coal power stations, steam trains, leaded fuel and thick clouds of god knows what belching from factory chimneys?

All of them significant silent killers.

Anyone want a prime example...?The health benefits of the cleaner air standards we've reached so far has vastly improved the survival outcomes for thousands of Covid sufferers.
We're now starting to see a generation with far less Interstitial lung disease - COPD, Pulmonary Fibrosis etc than their parents and grandparents. Stricter standards will only improve it further.

Alas it seems that the only way much of society sits up, takes notice and stops passing the buck is when it hits their wallet.

 

[Landy Andy]

Did people have asthma when houses were coal heated and smog was about?

 

[GJH]

Did people have asthma when houses were coal heated and smog was about?

Yes - and there were special wards in hospitals such as Ashton under Lyne (now in GM).

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Did people have asthma when houses were coal heated and smog was about?

Absolutely yes
Out of the ignorance of the time, most were referred to as “sickly” children

 

[Jonno1103]

Did people have asthma when houses were coal heated and smog was about?

First reported around 2000 years ago and got really, really bad around 60 years ago. Kills about 500,000 a year.

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[dunnah01]

It's about paying a reasonable amount - 120 quid to drive into and then out of the Trafford Centre!!! It's about a fiver for a vehicle's lifetime for any city in Germany

 

[glenn2926]

No it isn't. As with other schemes in other areas of the country, it is local councils following government policy as legislation requires them to.
Motorhomes have always been included in the LEZ in London.

If it’s not purely a money grab can you explain how giving the council money makes your motorhome less polluting? I for one cannot see how giving money reduces the pollution.

 

[AndyPK]

If it’s not purely a money grab can you explain how giving the council money makes your motorhome less polluting? I for one cannot see how giving money reduces the pollution.

……then the idea is to deter people from driving into the area…..’just go somewhere else, please’!

 

[Pausim]

If it’s not purely a money grab can you explain how giving the council money makes your motorhome less polluting? I for one cannot see how giving money reduces the pollution.

Well that one is easy, I doubt anyone will choose to pay £120 to go to the Trafford Centre. They will find a cheaper, less polluting, way of getting there.

 

[AndyPK]

Well that one is easy, I doubt anyone will choose to pay £120 to go to the Trafford Centre. They will find a cheaper, less polluting, way of getting there.

…or they’ll go somewhere else!

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