Full time through winter in search of new life

Without a doubt insurance companies will look at everything to avoid a payout

Had a rather expensive car stolen years ago and the loss adjuster came around my house and went through everything to make sure I was legal even down to asking for the spare keys that came with the car!!
 
just a thought if an illegal vehicle is involved in a road traffic collision, they must be at fault =they should not have been there

when in uni I was told if your looking for compensation sue everyone start with the one with most money but if there is nothing to gain , someone unemployed , no assets, no saving what's the point it will only cost you with no benefit , but it for example someone driving company car go for the company, the directors, their insurance and so forth
I hope I never have the need to try
 
dawsey said:
Many thanks for the comments. A very witty and droll lot u guys are. The council estate thing was meant as a funny joke (with small element of truth), not as any snob thing. It’s my background also. Also agree with the advice on not getting into some slanging thing, life is too short. Always been one for reacting, the future improved continental me will take a deep breath, another glass of red and just ignore.

Mucho good advice and I don’t think France is paradise, far from it I know.

I will post something in a couple of months on how it is going. Passed MOT today so leaving UK tomorrow.
Click to expand...
I hope you keep posting about your quest for a campsite more often than in a couple of months, very interesting thread deserves at least a weekly update.
 
L' Hobo said:
While I think you may be right in normal circumstances, 'the Authorities would not bother to check'.

In a fatal accident, no matter who was to blame, I think the Insurance Company might be, especially if the compensation bill was in the millions of pounds.
IF they decided that the OP was driving illegally, they could invalidate his insurance policy as it is his signature on the T &C's which normally state that 'the vehicle is in a legal and roadworthy condition.'

dawsey then could be totally responsible, not the Insurance Company. He could be jailed and have to pay the compensation bill and if his own Insurance Company disowned him, the others involved would be down on him like a ton of bricks.

Unless he has very deep pockets, he could, not only lose his liberty but his van and all his saving for a very long time for the sake of a few hundred pounds!

I truly hope that the above never happens but for the sake of a few hundred pounds, I know what I would do especially when anyone can go onto the Gov UK website and check the MOT/TAX history & status of a vehicle if you have the Reg No.!
Click to expand...
Yep I did say that the only interested party would be the insurance company as they look for any excuse possible



But if you had deep pockets you could take the defence that as the vehicle is not being used on UK roads it technically shouldn't have to pay a tax to use them
 
Dawsey i know you might be busy but ive actually googled to find out, and your car or vehicle has to be legit in this country to be legit abroad, and if you are driving a sorn vehicle on the public highway your insurance is void......sorry ti be the bearer of bad news ,ijust bought a new to me car yesterday and taxed it on dvla site it took 5 mins
Its an old suxuki gran vitara and its more expensive than my 2017 lwb transit wats that about lol
Any way hope you dint think im nagging good luck
Pampam

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Northernraider said:
Yep I did say that the only interested party would be the insurance company as they look for any excuse possible



But if you had deep pockets you could take the defence that as the vehicle is not being used on UK roads it technically shouldn't have to pay a tax to use them
Click to expand...
And you say I should be a defence lawyer! 😆
 
Minxy said:
And you say I should be a defence lawyer! 😆
Click to expand...
No I'm just stating a fact , road tax is commonly sold as just that ...I'm well aware it's now stated it doesn't go to repairing roads etc but it's stated you can't use it on a UK road without it which suggests different.


Therfore if you are not using the vehicle in the UK you should not have to pay that tax ... its simple really if you think about it.

The UK isn't giving any of that money to the other country you are driving in.


As for insurance, it shouldn't really matter to them either because it makes no difference to the safety of the vehicle etc .

It's simply an excuse for them to wiggle out of paying.
 
Anyway its a great posting and very interesting i hope he keeps posting on how hes getting on finding a site ,as the saying goes "weve all got choices" some ere on over cautiousness(me)
And some dont(all my kids lol)
 
chaser said:
I hope you keep posting about your quest for a campsite more often than in a couple of months, very interesting thread deserves at least a weekly update.
Click to expand...
If they are out trying to find set up a campsite they may be to busy to post weekly.Especially setting up all the financial implications if running a business ensuring they have the correct insurances etc.

As writing this i had a thought, which is always dangerous

if on a campsite and an untaxed vehicle was parked next to your van (van owners generally) therefore rendering it unsured and something went wrong ie fire , poor maneuvering and the untaxed/uninsured damage or burnt out your van (van owners generally) who is going to pay (I know most responsible van owners will be taxed mot'd and insured and their insurance would deal with it) but this could huge delays
Not sure many van owners would want to pitch on a campsite under those conditions especially as the van has a far higher value than cash

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Great read up and replies on this post, with most of the problems being “in” the van is comforting being the owner of a 15yr old Hymer myself.
The trick with the Renogy B2B to get 50A when running was on my “to do” list even tho I was pessimistic that it would work.
Nice One
Andy
 
Northernraider said:
Yep I did say that the only interested party would be the insurance company as they look for any excuse possible



But if you had deep pockets you could take the defence that as the vehicle is not being used on UK roads it technically shouldn't have to pay a tax to use them
Click to expand...
With that argument, one could argue that as your not driving on UK roads, you don't need a UK MOT, so why did the OP make sure he got one of those? All he had to do was arrange a MOT appointment for when he was about to return. :unsure:

I'm sorry happy to say, ignorance of the law is no defence unless you can pay a very expensive lawyer,
so why not just pay the road tax in the first place and save the hassle? :giggle:

PS. What one pays is not 'Road Tax', it's Vehicle Excise Duty (whatever that is) so, possibly, the road argument is weakened?
 
Last edited:
L' Hobo said:
With that argument, one could argue that as your not driving on UK roads, you don't need a UK MOT, so why did the OP make sure he got one of those? All he had to do was arrange a MOT appointment for when he was about to return. :unsure:

I'm sorry happy to say, ignorance of the law is no defence unless you can pay a very expensive lawyer,
so why not just pay the road tax in the first place and save the hassle? :giggle:
Click to expand...
An mot is entirely different, every country requires a vehicle to be road worthy .

Whereas France doesn't care if you pay £200 to the UK government to drive on the road when you aren't in the UK.
 
danger warning, I'm thinking again
why not just register the vehicle over there and follow all that country's regulations and laws , if the campsite is there and that the home of the owner
 
Northernraider said:
An mot is entirely different, every country requires a vehicle to be road worthy .

Whereas France doesn't care if you pay £200 to the UK government to drive on the road when you aren't in the UK.
Click to expand...

but an MOT, as you know, does not guarantee that a vehicle is roadworthy, only that the examiner judged it to be at the time of the MOT.
In all my experience of sending my vehicles to France (and other places abroad, the first requirement was) they had, not only to be roadworthy but Legal in the 'Country of Origin' and if the OP is driving on the public highway while the vehicle is SORNed.
Then it is NOT!

France does care if if they can fine you for not paying that £200.

I'll say no more on the subject.

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Last edited:
Hello All

Well, Brittany Ferries staff announced an impromptu strike for today so the ferry is cancelled and we are stuck in UK another day. Thought I’d have a look at this thread again.

You are a law abiding lot, I’d no idea my comment about SORN would get so much interest. It seemed obvious to me having been involved in some high level industrial insurance claim negotiations in the past - my own understanding is that in even of incident, what would normally determine insurance company attitude to indemnity are facts that are ‘material’ to the claim. So if, for example you have bald tyres your claim will be compromised, even if you have a valid MOT. The same is true vice versa, if you don’t have an MOT it would only affect your insurance cover if they could prove there was a defect with your car (not having MOT would just mean they would look much more closely at the vehicle).

It seemed pretty common sense to me that not having UK road tax (just a tax for having the privilege of driving on our potholed roads remember) would absolutely not be material to insurance. You would simply be prosecuted for breaking the relevant law if found driving on UK roads without it.

My understanding is as follows:
All insurance covers, like absolutely all contracts of any type always stipulate that all relevant laws must be complied with, it is a catch all, but not a defence in court against insurance company liability if the fact of being in contravention of this or that law is not ‘material’.

However, i’m just a simple engineer and not an insurance specialist, or perhaps more pertinently a lawyer, so I will simply call up my insurer tomorrow to ask them the confirm, in writing, whether my cover would in any way potentially be compromised. I am a ‘private client’ with about 7 vehicles insured so maybe I will get a straight answer. If I do, I will share it.

Cheers
 
dawsey said:
Hello all, this continues my earlier thread started some months ago which got deleted by mods due to me mentioning the B word…

In October we (myself and my French wife Beatrice) completed the sale of our UK property and set out in our 20yr old B544 to find a project in France. Having been into campers since my early 20s (some near 30 years ago) I/we want to buy a campsite to develop.

In earlier threads I mentioned how I spent a couple of months prepping the old bus to be completely self sufficient - it had to get through a continental winter with us full timing. We’d be in France, so overnighting would be super easy in their system of aires-de-camping car, however, often there’d be no hook up options and water points would be off to protect from frost damage. To preserve funds, campsites would be avoided.

Hence the two 18kg Gaslow LPG tanks, 200Ah of lithium and 600W solar (covering pretty much every spare square foot of the roof) :) and 25/50A B2B to keep the batteries nicely charged. Systems to collect rainwater and even purify river water were all plumbed in. Adamant that she needed a full oven and microwave (installing a microwave in there is an excellent way to repurpose the big old CRT TV cabinet :) ), and to be able to run hairdryer and hair straighteners, a high end 2kW inverter was also integrated into all the existing electrics, with me in the process discovering that there is definitely such things as ‘low end’ invertors. When the 1st so-called 2kw rated inverter (ebay, c£120) failed under just 1300W of microwave load. I took it apart to find it had an internal, hard soldered, 80A fuse. Here was something advertised as a 2kW (4KW peak!), that was guaranteed to fail if run with more than a 1kW load. I then spent twice a much on something of the same nominal capacity but somehow twice the size.

Already running out of load capacity with safari tent, roof AC (for summer) and sat dish, when I decided I needed an on board alternative mode of transport other than the Mrs’s old push bike (a 110kg 250cc motorbike, itself necessitating a 25kg chassis carrier for my elderly non-garage equipped camper :)) - I had to uprate. Going to the max 3700kg kept us (just about) the right side of UK law. Some Dunlop air assistance on the Alko torsion bar took care of the ‘soggy bottom’, and uprated springs and new dampers at the front took care of the ‘soggy front’ (?)

Loads of stuff goes wrong with old campers - since prepping it and doing a trial run in summer, in addition to routine servicing, I have sorted all manner of stuff

  • fridge sparking constantly (serviced, burner cleaned, water ingress (from hob drain) issue resolved
  • drop down bed gas struts failed (replaced easily and cheaply enough with pattern 1.7kN units).
  • water pump failed (again replaced easy enough. I now carry a spare pump as it is really inconvenient to have no water at all)
  • water pump non return valve then failed (fixed with a second in line non return valve)
  • boiler purge valve failed (again easy enough replacement)

with all these watery things fixed, for the first time I had pressure remaining in all taps at any time (instead of gurgles and spluttering when opening if left for more than 10min..). This then caused the shower tap to fail internally (drip drip heard in the cubicle at night) so I replaced that after 3 attempts to fix it.

Finally, some element of the various failed valves must have made its way into a pipe as all cold water pressure was lost and cold tap (kitchen) output reduced to a trickle. Fixed by disconnecting all cold pipes from boiler, routing the pipes temporarily outside and connecting mains pressure water direct to the kitchen tap to back flush. It worked, though I never found the offending component.

  • bathroom roof vent failed. Just age and fatigue. replaced with something from ebay which required me to spend a day chopping it to pieces to make it fit…
  • kitchen turbo vent failed - in addition to the usual banging when retracting, bearings then went on motor producing terrible noises. After some oiling I gave up and bought something cheap on ebay (I by now should have known better). what garbage, a remote control thing which lasted a month before failing.
  • roof AC failed on the summer - just age, it was same age as the camper. A Telair Silent whose manufacturer was obviously having a joke with the name..Replaced with a Truma Aventa compact (so I could run it off the solar panels, at least in theory :) ) - this then failed within a month but Truma sent a new sensor under warranty which I fitted myself, after pretending to be a service agent to get them to send it in the first place…..

  • light bar electrics all failed when someone in UK bashed into it (and helpfully drove off) - I just made up a new bar
  • ‘mood lighting’ as demanded by the mrs if she were to spend loads of time in there. I experimented with all sorts of lights - fitting and then removing all sorts of LED as the light colour was just nasty. I eventually just fitted halogens back in the light units, and recessed LED strip lights in various places for a subtle lighting option, one of which is on the front of the drop down bed, making it look from the front like one of those crazy over illuminated trucks when on!
Guess what we found to be the best lighting solution? - A normal 240V bedside table lamp with an LED bulb. Just runs off the invertor and produces nice lighting.

- then the worst job of all, noticing sometimes awful smells when driving if ‘someone’ had used the loo and it hadnt been emptied, and noticing effluent collecting in the cassette recess, I diagnosed (eventually :( ) a leaky cassette seal. It was limescale, same thing as knackers kettles and shower heads, causing it to fail to fully seal when closed, then driving would allow splashes to make it outside the tank and into the van - an unpleasant job, but very simply fixed by removing the silicone seal in the tank and thoroughly cleaning it with a vinegar solution.

In the next post I will outline how the first 2 months went for us mooching around darkest France, not a single night on site or on hook up, if anyone interested :)

Happy new year - Graham and Beatrice
Click to expand...
Oh my gosh. You are the man of my dreams! Keep the saga coming. I am breathless.
 
dawsey said:
Hello All

Well, Brittany Ferries staff announced an impromptu strike for today so the ferry is cancelled and we are stuck in UK another day. Thought I’d have a look at this thread again.

You are a law abiding lot, I’d no idea my comment about SORN would get so much interest. It seemed obvious to me having been involved in some high level industrial insurance claim negotiations in the past - my own understanding is that in even of incident, what would normally determine insurance company attitude to indemnity are facts that are ‘material’ to the claim. So if, for example you have bald tyres your claim will be compromised, even if you have a valid MOT. The same is true vice versa, if you don’t have an MOT it would only affect your insurance cover if they could prove there was a defect with your car (not having MOT would just mean they would look much more closely at the vehicle).

It seemed pretty common sense to me that not having UK road tax (just a tax for having the privilege of driving on our potholed roads remember) would absolutely not be material to insurance. You would simply be prosecuted for breaking the relevant law if found driving on UK roads without it.

My understanding is as follows:
All insurance covers, like absolutely all contracts of any type always stipulate that all relevant laws must be complied with, it is a catch all, but not a defence in court against insurance company liability if the fact of being in contravention of this or that law is not ‘material’.

However, i’m just a simple engineer and not an insurance specialist, or perhaps more pertinently a lawyer, so I will simply call up my insurer tomorrow to ask them the confirm, in writing, whether my cover would in any way potentially be compromised. I am a ‘private client’ with about 7 vehicles insured so maybe I will get a straight answer. If I do, I will share it.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Just a small aside, have you thought of getting a TV company interested in your quest, al la dick strawbridge.
Could be a nice little earner for you
 
Mousy said:
Mr Mousy

We agree about the litter in the UK. Spent 3 months in Croatia last year and it was spotless.
Click to expand...

The litter in Italy makes the UK look tidy 😀

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Northernraider said:
No I'm just stating a fact , road tax is commonly sold as just that ...I'm well aware it's now stated it doesn't go to repairing roads etc but it's stated you can't use it on a UK road without it which suggests different.


Therfore if you are not using the vehicle in the UK you should not have to pay that tax ... its simple really if you think about it.

The UK isn't giving any of that money to the other country you are driving in.


As for insurance, it shouldn't really matter to them either because it makes no difference to the safety of the vehicle etc .

It's simply an excuse for them to wiggle out of paying.
Click to expand...

All makes perfect sense, however, UK laws don't always take common sense into account.
 
Nanniemate said:
if on a campsite and an untaxed vehicle was parked next to your van (van owners generally) therefore rendering it unsured and something went wrong ie fire , poor maneuvering and the untaxed/uninsured damage or burnt out your van (van owners generally) who is going to pay (I know most responsible van owners will be taxed mot'd and insured and their insurance would deal with it) but this could huge delays
Not sure many van owners would want to pitch on a campsite under those conditions especially as the van has a far higher value than cash
Click to expand...

I assume this would be the same as if you had an accident with an uninsured driver on a road. If you have fully comp insurance your company will pay. Most companies have a 'uninsured driver promise' that will ensure you don't lose no claims or excess.

Broken Link Removed
 
I've been stopped by police quite a few times over the years with vehicles that were not taxed. Usually because I'd just bought them etc . And I have to say that not once have they implied I wasn't insured.

Insurance does not get out of it that easily . Some may try it of course but even cars without mot are not uninsured.
 
Northernraider said:
I've been stopped by police quite a few times over the years with vehicles that were not taxed. Usually because I'd just bought them etc . And I have to say that not once have they implied I wasn't insured.

Insurance does not get out of it that easily . Some may try it of course but even cars without mot are not uninsured.
Click to expand...

Seem strange that the OP dawsey hasn't been back yet with the Insurance Companies answer they were going to give him when he rang them Thursday. I thought he wrote he was going to share it with us? :unsure:
 
Well, we made it back to France jumping off the ferry in St Malo early yesterday. Some poor soul in a very long modern MoHo with a very long overhang and a chassis-carrier appeared to have come a cropper on the exit ramp with the carrier detached and what looked like a scooter almost on the floor. At least there were plenty staff there to help. I knew there was a reason we like to take those evil ramps at an angle and with the air-assist bags blown up to near bursting….

A quick update on keeping the old bus tip top:

The cheap n nasty chinese ‘K-tech’ remote control ceiling fan (link below) that had failed was stripped and I found that as suspected it had gone due to condensation frying the PCB. Worse, the lack of insulation due to single skin and poor design meant that condensation was starting to damage the inner ply. It is just not fit for purpose. To fix, once I satisfied myself that the main motor still worked , I removed the PCB & all buttons and wiring and fitted a £12 40A variable speed motor controller, wiring via existing fuse, then grabbed a handful of rock wool from my mate’s loft and packed it everywhere between the round fan cowl and the edge of the square hole in the van roof. A detachable 40cm square overnight insulating panel was added to the underside to further minimise heat loss and condensation. We now have to use a good old fashioned handle to wind up and down the cover ( like we used to), and the fan only has one control and works in one direction (though at any speed), the mrs says she actually much prefers the simplicity.

Maybe this will one day be useful to anyone else who’s bought one of those things if it subsequently fails out of warranty. they are maybe OK for summer use, but try to use in cold weather and they seem certain to quickly fail due to non-robust design.

KKTECT RV Roof Vent Fan,12V Motorhome vent Fan w/ 3 Speed Intake & Exhaust – Electric Crank Lift & Smoke Lid – Includes Screws & Garnish Amazon product ASIN B08L82HD9N

No answer from the insurance company yet, irritating as I called twice. No hurry though, I was in UK for early Jan so the old bus is taxed at least to end Jan

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VXman said:
The litter in Italy makes the UK look tidy 😀
Click to expand...

Italy perhaps is the only western european country with litter issues even remotely approaching those of UK, however the statement above is untrue. Italys problems are localised to areas of major cities of the south, ie the widelely publicised issues with the mafia contracts in Naples starting in the 90s and lasting 20yrs until about 2014 and Romes issues since it closed its landfill site around the same time.

Northern Italy, though typically italian and chaotic remains clean.

In the last 2 weeks I did a loop of England and I can confirm, having seen it with my own eyes, that the problem of litter lining the streets outside major towns and cities is pretty much universal.

thelondonmagazine.org

Essay | The Filth and the Fury – England’s Litter Problem by Will Stone - The London Magazine

Will Stone The Filth and the Fury – England’s Litter Problem In spring 2021, the national road network of England lies in a state of unprecedented decay. Most roads of all kinds, major and minor have greatly deteriorated, worn out by an ever-increasing number of vehicles with an...
thelondonmagazine.org thelondonmagazine.org

https://sussexbylines.co.uk/is-the-uk-the-litter-lout-of-europe/#:~:text=Litter%2Dloving%20Britons&text=1.3m%20pieces%20of%20rubbish,on%20Britain's%20streets%20every%20year.
 
Last edited:
dawsey said:
Italy perhaps is the only western european country with litter issues even remotely approaching those of UK.
Click to expand...
🤣🤣🤣 you're having a laugh ain't ya.

Having travelled extensively throughout 23 countries In the last 5 years I can assure you there are many with worse litter problems than the UK. And I'm going on seeing it in person and having picked loads of it up


Italy ,France, Spain, Portugal,Croatia Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania bring some of the worst I've seen . Reaching New heights in fly tipping too.
 
Northernraider said:
🤣🤣🤣 you're having a laugh ain't ya.

Having travelled extensively throughout 23 countries In the last 5 years I can assure you there are many with worse litter problems than the UK. And I'm going on seeing it in person and having picked loads of it up


Italy ,France, Spain, Portugal,Croatia Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania bring some of the worst I've seen . Reaching New heights in fly tipping too.
Click to expand...
Sorry this tickled me are we in competition now to have the highest rate of littering compared to other countries not a prise I like us to win 😲
dawsey said:
Italy perhaps is the only western european country with litter issues even remotely approaching those of UK, however the statement above is untrue. Italys problems are localised to areas of major cities of the south, ie the widelely publicised issues with the mafia contracts in Naples starting in the 90s and lasting 20yrs until about 2014 and Romes issues since it closed its landfill site around the same time.

Northern Italy, though typically italian and chaotic remains clean.

In the last 2 weeks I did a loop of England and I can confirm, having seen it with my own eyes, that the problem of litter lining the streets outside major towns and cities is pretty much universal.

thelondonmagazine.org

Essay | The Filth and the Fury – England’s Litter Problem by Will Stone - The London Magazine

Will Stone The Filth and the Fury – England’s Litter Problem In spring 2021, the national road network of England lies in a state of unprecedented decay. Most roads of all kinds, major and minor have greatly deteriorated, worn out by an ever-increasing number of vehicles with an...
thelondonmagazine.org thelondonmagazine.org

https://sussexbylines.co.uk/is-the-uk-the-litter-lout-of-europe/#:~:text=Litter%2Dloving%20Britons&text=1.3m%20pieces%20of%20rubbish,on%20Britain's%20streets%20every%20year.
Click to expand...
 
Northernraider said:
🤣🤣🤣 you're having a laugh ain't ya.

No.

Italy ,France, Spain, Portugal,Croatia Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania bring some of the worst I've seen . Reaching New heights in fly tipping too.
Click to expand...

Suggesting that France has a worse litter problem than the UK has at least made me smile!
 

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