Full time through winter in search of new life (2 Viewers)

[PaddyM]

“deleted by mods due to me mentioning the B word… “
You really can’t help yourself can you ?
I was the person who reported your original post and will do again .

 

[Tombola]

deleted by mods due to me mentioning the B word…
You really can’t help yourself can you ?
I was the person who reported your original post and will do again .

Ive not a clue what this means, are you saying there are some politics on this thread? have I missed them,

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Ive not a clue what this means, are you saying there are some politics on this thread? have I missed them,

Me neither?
Why would someone be reported for mentioning the word “Belgium”???

 

[PaddyM]

Ive not a clue what this means, are you saying there are some politics on this thread? have I missed them,

The B word was not Belgium it was a clear and obvious political reference .
As I said I have reported the post AGAIN .
STOP bringing politics into Funsters , it’s NOT fun .

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

The B word was not Belgium it was a clear and obvious political reference .

Sorry, you have lost me on this, and I really don’t want to go over old ground, but if it was a reference to a certain membership of European states,well it’s all over.
Let’s just concentrate on how we are going to pay our gas and leccy bills and hope the Ukrainians get some sort of positive outcome to their horrendous circumstances.
Nuff said.

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[Tombola]

The B word was not Belgium it was a clear and obvious political reference .
As I said I have reported the post AGAIN .
STOP bringing politics into Funsters , it’s NOT fun .

good lord ?

I for one didnt even think about it until you mentioned it. I think you should get a quick cocoa and chill down. Surely you havent reported this for him typing "The B Word" I bet Jim loves you

I only seen plenty good advice in this thread by the op, and you come flying in on your police horse whipping up a storm... you wanna take it easy on yourself

 

[Jolak]

Well done Dawsey. An excellent and informative thread. Speaking as someone who was forced into catholicism, I generally found Irish people to be okay, apart from the occasional prick, so don't you dare to mention BREXIT again!

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Well done Dawsey. An excellent and informative thread. Speaking as someone who was forced into catholicism, I generally found Irish people to be okay, apart from the occasional prick, so don't you dare to mention BREXIT again!

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Now that’s what “Fun” should be.
Some of the best comedy is when the p..s is taken out of ones self first and foremost.
I have many daft stories that I tell about myself, and if you took them seriously, you would not want me as an associate, let alone the guy who runs out in the rain to help a fellow late arrival motorhomer onto a site to help him with his blow-up awning , trying to put it up in a force 9 and pouring rain!
Time to chill chaps and chappesses

 

[dawsey]

Morning all, and thanks for the comments of support. Blimey I was taken aback by that!

I was about to post the next bit about the time on the continent so far and returning to UK for visa, but having seen that someone wants the thread deleted I will wait for the verdict of the moderator. I don’t fancy writing it all out again (as I’ve already done) - If posts are going to be deleted for something so trivial I would just move to another forum

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[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Morning all, and thanks for the comments of support. Blimey I was taken aback by that!

I was about to post the next bit about the time on the continent so far and returning to UK for visa, but having seen that someone wants the thread deleted I will wait for the verdict of the moderator. I don’t fancy writing it all out again (as I’ve already done) - If posts are going to be deleted for something so trivial I would just move to another forum

Very well said!
Publish and be damned

 

[dawsey]

OK Captain Yogurtpot, here goes:


Having done two months unsuccessfully looking for projects from Brittany to Dordogne, Lot and Viene, we returned to Brittany for Christmas with the wife’s family, then headed back to UK for my long stay visa, made slightly tricky with no address in UK or France to put on the forms.

We’ve properly seen and reviewed the accounts of half a dozen campsites, checked out a similar number for location with a fly-by, and looked at a handful of large houses with land. The search continues…

In over two months we didn’t ever need to stay on a Campsite in France. Most are closed anyway. We paid for an over night once, in an aire when we stayed on the edge of a city (Nantes), more for security than anything else.

Wild camping isn’t really wild camping in France, as there isn’t ever really a need to properly wild camp as virtually every commune provides a safe, quiet and secure aire for campers to overnight, more often than not free and with free camper water service point. Even where there’s nothing official, nobody bothers if you use the local sports stadium car park, the mayors car park or even a local supermarket car park.

The only thing to watch for are the savage French speed bumps. 11 years ago I drove through a french hamlet on a wide nationale (A-road) and missed the 30kph (18mph) limit sign. I was doing about 70kph (45mph) when I hit the speed bump, which are uncomfortable in a camper at anything above about 25kph (15mph). My old Talbot Express based Elnagh Magnum went airborne… Besides other damage, and many smashed bottles, the drivers window was torn out of its frame. It’s not something I ever want to try again.

So, as long as one is careful of the speed bumps in the villages, then as long as one is self sufficient electrically, there’s almost never a challenge to find somewhere to comfortably and safely overnight in France. This has allowed us to get on with looking for a project.

We are looking for a nice old building to live in and do up, outbuildings for my car and bike collection and accompanying land with permissions as a campsite to develop a small camping/glamping operation, or if possible, some sort of aire, providing cheap, no nonsense and secure parking for campers, tents and motorhomes - we have fairly broad aims.

During the search, the only slight issues came in December when many of the aires isolate the water taps to prevent frost damage, and when it freezes, those that aren’t already disabled become frozen up. However, where this is the case, with a little effort you can always find a nearby public loo in a building with a still functioning tap. In a fully winterised German van, even well below zero is tolerable. You just have to leave the heating on all night. Strip washes to save water where taps are frozen and ice inside windows in the morning ms reminded me of life as a kid in the 70’s . In these conditions I get about a week out of an 18kg LPG bottle. It’s better to stay put until the temperature rises than brave the black ice. There are rather too many ‘Verglas frequent’ warning signs in the interior for my liking.

Thankfully, there was only two cold snaps in the run up to christmas, and they both only lasted a few days.

Our old bus, a winterised Hymer B544 with the Sofim/Fiat 2.8 JTD on a Fiat x230/244 (not really sure which) cab-chassis and Alko torsion bar twin floor (winterised) rear is serving us well. We bought it 4 years ago way back in 2018 for this very purpose, but it sat undercover with minimal use for most of that time as our house sale and project was delayed for the obvious reason. The faithful old bus has got to an age where most things are failing, especially anything exposed to UV, though thankfully replacement parts can usually be found - I replaced most stuff in the UK over the last few years. All the little plastic fittings that hold the skirt lockers or the hab door open, for example. It’s amazing how irritating it can be when this stuff snaps off and can no longer perform its simple function.

Since the last post where I detailed the stuff that had gone wrong in the run up to Christmas, I’ve replaced the alternator belt as it was polished through uncorrected slipping (I needed to wait for somewhere I could safely jack, chock and prop and get right under) and I’ve lubed the speedo cable as the needle was beginning to wobble. Though the curious aftermarket cruise control would still work if the cable snapped, it is always nice to know how fast (or slow) one is travelling.

In the previous post I mentioned how i’d had to replace the original-era hymer (blue) shower room mixer tap with something new. The thing I found in a French camping-car dealer came with one of those small shower heads with a seperate valve on it, very similar to those botty washer bidet things that anyone who’s travelled in Asia may be familiar with. At first I was going to remove and fit my trusty old adjustable shower head, reasoning that I didn’t want to be opening two valves or having to hold the shower head while showering, but Bea persuaded me to give it a go. It’s actually way better and seriously reduces water usage, as well as, ahem, eliminating the need for loo paper. It’s been a very long time since I backpacked around Asia back in the 90’s, I’d forgotten about that..

One thing we really noted this time is just how much more expensive food is in France when compared with UK, especially meat and vegetables. 15-22€ is the price range per kilo for not-particularly special chicken, for example. Beef is a little closer to UK prices, but still more. Even fuel, usually cheaper, seems to be broadly on par with UK prices given current exchange rates.

The only things that remain significantly cheaper than UK is housing and wine. There’s always a silver lining .

We jumped on a cross channel ferry to return to UK on new year’s eve, ready to make the application this week.

There’s a thing you notice when coming back to the UK from the continent (other than the state of the roads) which is just very depressing. Just how much litter there is everywhere. Strewn by every roadside, all along dual carriageways, motorways and tiny country lanes, it makes the country look like a giant rubbish dump. From European perspective the UK has become a ‘3rd’ country - but it is sad to see that poor old blighty appears to be well on the way to becoming a ‘3rd world’ country…

Never mind, there are some benefits to being back in UK (cue pic of full english with proper bacon, proper sausage, backed beans, warburtons toastie bread and giant mug of tetley tea, but won’t upload for some reason)

Next post, if I’m not ‘cancelled’ will be on the challenges of wild camping in the UK . I used to do it a lot 20years ago, I look forward to noting the changes, the first of which we have already noted, the near impossibility of finding water … now, where’s that flannel….

 

[chaser]

“deleted by mods due to me mentioning the B word… “
You really can’t help yourself can you ?
I was the person who reported your original post and will do again .

Why?

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

OK Captain Yogurtpot, here goes:


Having done two months unsuccessfully looking for projects from Brittany to Dordogne, Lot and Viene, we returned to Brittany for Christmas with the wife’s family, then headed back to UK for my long stay visa, made slightly tricky with no address in UK or France to put on the forms.

We’ve properly seen and reviewed the accounts of half a dozen campsites, checked out a similar number for location with a fly-by, and looked at a handful of large houses with land. The search continues…

In over two months we didn’t ever need to stay on a Campsite in France. Most are closed anyway. We paid for an over night once, in an aire when we stayed on the edge of a city (Nantes), more for security than anything else.

Wild camping isn’t really wild camping in France, as there isn’t ever really a need to properly wild camp as virtually every commune provides a safe, quiet and secure aire for campers to overnight, more often than not free and with free camper water service point. Even where there’s nothing official, nobody bothers if you use the local sports stadium car park, the mayors car park or even a local supermarket car park.

The only thing to watch for are the savage French speed bumps. 11 years ago I drove through a french hamlet on a wide nationale (A-road) and missed the 30kph (18mph) limit sign. I was doing about 70kph (45mph) when I hit the speed bump, which are uncomfortable in a camper at anything above about 25kph (15mph). My old Talbot Express based Elnagh Magnum went airborne… Besides other damage, and many smashed bottles, the drivers window was torn out of its frame. It’s not something I ever want to try again.

So, as long as one is careful of the speed bumps in the villages, then as long as one is self sufficient electrically, there’s almost never a challenge to find somewhere to comfortably and safely overnight in France. This has allowed us to get on with looking for a project.

We are looking for a nice old building to live in and do up, outbuildings for my car and bike collection and accompanying land with permissions as a campsite to develop a small camping/glamping operation, or if possible, some sort of aire, providing cheap, no nonsense and secure parking for campers, tents and motorhomes - we have fairly broad aims.

During the search, the only slight issues came in December when many of the aires isolate the water taps to prevent frost damage, and when it freezes, those that aren’t already disabled become frozen up. However, where this is the case, with a little effort you can always find a nearby public loo in a building with a still functioning tap. In a fully winterised German van, even well below zero is tolerable. You just have to leave the heating on all night. Strip washes to save water where taps are frozen and ice inside windows in the morning ms reminded me of life as a kid in the 70’s . In these conditions I get about a week out of an 18kg LPG bottle. It’s better to stay put until the temperature rises than brave the black ice. There are rather too many ‘Verglas frequent’ warning signs in the interior for my liking.

Thankfully, there was only two cold snaps in the run up to christmas, and they both only lasted a few days.

Our old bus, a winterised Hymer B544 with the Sofim/Fiat 2.8 JTD on a Fiat x230/244 (not really sure which) cab-chassis and Alko torsion bar twin floor (winterised) rear is serving us well. We bought it 4 years ago way back in 2018 for this very purpose, but it sat undercover with minimal use for most of that time as our house sale and project was delayed for the obvious reason. The faithful old bus has got to an age where most things are failing, especially anything exposed to UV, though thankfully replacement parts can usually be found - I replaced most stuff in the UK over the last few years. All the little plastic fittings that hold the skirt lockers or the hab door open, for example. It’s amazing how irritating it can be when this stuff snaps off and can no longer perform its simple function.

Since the last post where I detailed the stuff that had gone wrong in the run up to Christmas, I’ve replaced the alternator belt as it was polished through uncorrected slipping (I needed to wait for somewhere I could safely jack, chock and prop and get right under) and I’ve lubed the speedo cable as the needle was beginning to wobble. Though the curious aftermarket cruise control would still work if the cable snapped, it is always nice to know how fast (or slow) one is travelling.

In the previous post I mentioned how i’d had to replace the original-era hymer (blue) shower room mixer tap with something new. The thing I found in a French camping-car dealer came with one of those small shower heads with a seperate valve on it, very similar to those botty washer bidet things that anyone who’s travelled in Asia may be familiar with. At first I was going to remove and fit my trusty old adjustable shower head, reasoning that I didn’t want to be opening two valves or having to hold the shower head while showering, but Bea persuaded me to give it a go. It’s actually way better and seriously reduces water usage, as well as, ahem, eliminating the need for loo paper. It’s been a very long time since I backpacked around Asia back in the 90’s, I’d forgotten about that..

One thing we really noted this time is just how much more expensive food is in France when compared with UK, especially meat and vegetables. 15-22€ is the price range per kilo for not-particularly special chicken, for example. Beef is a little closer to UK prices, but still more. Even fuel, usually cheaper, seems to be broadly on par with UK prices given current exchange rates.

The only things that remain significantly cheaper than UK is housing and wine. There’s always a silver lining .

We jumped on a cross channel ferry to return to UK on new year’s eve, ready to make the application this week.

There’s a thing you notice when coming back to the UK from the continent (other than the state of the roads) which is just very depressing. Just how much litter there is everywhere. Strewn by every roadside, all along dual carriageways, motorways and tiny country lanes, it makes the country look like a giant rubbish dump. From European perspective the UK has become a ‘3rd’ country - but it is sad to see that poor old blighty appears to be well on the way to becoming a ‘3rd world’ country…

Never mind, there are some benefits to being back in UK (cue pic of full english with proper bacon, proper sausage, backed beans, warburtons toastie bread and giant mug of tetley tea, but won’t upload for some reason)

Next post, if I’m not ‘cancelled’ will be on the challenges of wild camping in the UK . I used to do it a lot 20years ago, I look forward to noting the changes, the first of which we have already noted, the near impossibility of finding water … now, where’s that flannel….

Thanks for that, I am finding this thread thoroughly enjoyable and informative and cannot for the life of me see why on earth someone wants to have your posts deleted.
All power to your elbow and keep us posted.
And such a true reflection on what the UK seems to unfortunately becoming.

 

[yodeli]

Oh purée!!! C'est trop long avec 3 loulous qui jouent ou crient dans mon dos! Je ferai ça à tête reposée!
Salut Béa! Cool d'avoir une damoiselle froggy dans le coin!
I do hope dawsey that you learnt some French , you don't let her do the whole job with estate agents do you?

Amicalement
Frankie

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[dawsey]

Oh purée!!! C'est trop long avec 3 loulous qui jouent ou crient dans mon dos! Je ferai ça à tête reposée!
Salut Béa! Cool d'avoir une damoiselle froggy dans le coin!
I do hope dawsey that you learnt some French , you don't let her do the whole job with estate agents do you?

Amicalement
Frankie

Cordialement Frankie - si je l’écris entirement en francais, serais-tu capable de lire plus vitte???

Bea est plus capable de s’occuper des agents immobilisers - même les francais…

I’d better write in english Yodeli - lest Captain Mainwairing report me again

she’s more than capable of dealing with estate agents, even french ones….

 

[dawsey]

Well, we’ve been back in UK since new years eve post longest Calais-Dover crossing I’ve ever done, onto the boat at 1130 French time and it 1630 UK time. Thought the long stay visa would be a doddle (being married to a Frenchie and all) but no.

Turns out the French consulate in London has ‘outsourced’ all the new hassle of processing visa applications to a London based UK company, who in turn have (take your pick)
a) not understood or anticipated demand
or
b) have, after being given control of the appointment system, seen an opportunity to exploit the situation.

Net result, no free ‘appointment’ (just to make the visa application and present documents in person) is possible for 3 months, unless we pay £750 for the ‘premium’ service in which case I can have my appointment to apply within the week.

Ahhhh, that which shall now remain unspoken, the gift that just keeps on giving

 

[Northernraider]

“deleted by mods due to me mentioning the B word… “
You really can’t help yourself can you ?
I was the person who reported your original post and will do again .

You need to get out more

 

[Northernraider]

good lord ?

I for one didnt even think about it until you mentioned it. I think you should get a quick cocoa and chill down. Surely you havent reported this for him typing "The B Word" I bet Jim loves you

I only seen plenty good advice in this thread by the op, and you come flying in on your police horse whipping up a storm... you wanna take it easy on yourself

 

[Minxy]

“deleted by mods due to me mentioning the B word… “
You really can’t help yourself can you ?
I was the person who reported your original post and will do again .

What's the problem? He just indicated why the thread was pulled, there was no actual discussion of 'B' one way or another?

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[chaser]

What's the problem? He just indicated why the thread was pulled, there was no actual discussion of 'B' one way or another?

Don't see why we can't mention it anyway in passing if something is happening because of b you have got to mention it, no need to discuss the actual event

 

[Northernraider]

Don't see why we can't mention it anyway in passing if something is happening because of b you have got to mention it, no need to discuss the actual event

Exactly. And personally if I need to mention it I will .

If those who clearly wanted it can't handle being confronted with the reality of it then it's their issue.

 

[gus-lopez]

STOP bringing politics into Funsters , it’s NOT fun .

Everything is political.What is fun to you isn't to me

One thing we really noted this time is just how much more expensive food is in France when compared with UK, especially meat and vegetables. 15-22€ is the price range per kilo for not-particularly special chicken, for example. Beef is a little closer to UK prices, but still more. Even fuel, usually cheaper, seems to be broadly on par with UK prices given current exchange rates.

The only things that remain significantly cheaper than UK is housing and wine. There’s always a silver lining .

You need to buy quite close to the spanish border so you can pop over & do your shopping & filling there where it is cheaper.

Well, we’ve been back in UK since new years eve post longest Calais-Dover crossing I’ve ever done, onto the boat at 1130 French time and it 1630 UK time. Thought the long stay visa would be a doddle (being married to a Frenchie and all) but no.

Turns out the French consulate in London has ‘outsourced’ all the new hassle of processing visa applications to a London based UK company, who in turn have (take your pick)
a) not understood or anticipated demand
or
b) have, after being given control of the appointment system, seen an opportunity to exploit the situation.

Net result, no free ‘appointment’ (just to make the visa application and present documents in person) is possible for 3 months, unless we pay £750 for the ‘premium’ service in which case I can have my appointment to apply within the week.

Ahhhh, that which shall now remain unspoken, the gift that just keeps on giving

With a French wife why do you need a visa? You can stay for 90 consecutive days then pop next door to reset the clock.
You can apply for a French version of the 3rd country residency certificate based on your wife's citizenship & ,if like spain, it is a formality. If it isn't then it is contrary to the EU diective.
Good thread by the way & enjoyable updates.

 

[dawsey]

We are relocating to France, we will be buying land, setting up a business. Better I have residence, pay taxes, build pension etc.

Thanks for the positive comments guys.

I got the 1yr visa yesterday. It starts from yesterday (15th) so we will be heading back to France on Wednesday to continue the search. While staying with friends for the last few days (a bed that doesn’t move, luxury!) we’ve serviced our old bus, completed the latest list of little maintenance jobs, cleaned her up and will do a fresh MOT tomorrow as that otherwise runs out within a couple of months. I always SORN if out of UK, but it crosses the line to be flitting round the continent with expired MOT.

After an initial 2 months in France and then 3 weeks wilding in England taking an arc from Kent south of London to Swindon, up through Herefordshire & Shropshire, then Cheshire and Lancashire we’ve noted some real differences in the state of the two countries and how different it is to wild camp.

Dear old blighty seems to be falling off a cliff. Roads are so potholed in places they are borderline dangerous, and the place is disgusting with litter lining the side of practically every road from country lanes to motorways. It now seems the done thing for people to just throw their litter out of their car. In comparison to France, indeed to practically anywhere in western Europe, England looks like one big rubbish dump. Visiting the island from the EU puts one in mind of travelling to some Indian or African slum. I don’t know why, I’d guess a mixture of culture ( too many just don’t care), too light fines and local authorities stopping roadside litter picking maybe? Whatever it is, it is getting worse.

Apologies to my Brexiteer friend who will no doubt be spitting out his Horlicks while spluttering about how we won the war - but from that perspective at the very least, the UK has entered a period of regression. Don’t shoot the messenger, facts are facts.


In my last post I said I’d contrast the full time motorhoming experience between France and UK (well, England), so here goes:

Out of season overnighting (on site/chargeable aire):

France - We didn’t stay on a proper site as most are closed. Chargeable aires, usually found in larger towns and city conurbations are about €8-14 inc free water and service with plastic membership card.

UK - The choice is between things like pub car parks, a handful of specialist overnight car parks or truck stops. Charges vary widely, but are very rarely less than £20 for a camper, with £25 seeming to be the most quoted number. Some pubs might let you stay for free, but you’d have to eat there.

Overnighting (off site):

France - Very easy. Almost all communes have an ‘aire’ designed and built specifically for motorhomes. Failing that, maries, sports stadiums and almost any car park inc supermarkets are fine to overnight in. Nobody moves you on, nobody bothers you. Out in the sticks, we’ve parked overnight on field access tracks dozens of times. As long as you don’t prevent the farmer from getting past in his tractor, and don’t leave any rubbish, all you ever get is a cheery wave.

UK - In general, it is difficult to find somewhere quiet and safe. Most car parks have height restrictions, almost all public spaces have height restrictions and very clear and aggressive ‘no overnight’ signs. Park in the ‘wrong’ place and you can expect a knock on the door.

Finding fresh water:

France - super easy. All aires have an often free tap. If there’s a charge to use, it’s usually €2. In 2 months we never needed to use our own onboard systems to produce water.

UK - The only real option is to find an independent garage and ask if you can use their tap/hose in return for buying some fuel. As these types of operations decline ever further, it just gets harder. In desperation, in the last few days I asked some Albanians if I could use their hose in one of the hand car washes - I could see this wasn’t the first time they’d been asked, the jokers demanded £15 for 100ltr I of course politely told them to go poke it and finally found a kind old gent in a garden centre who was willing to let us use his tap. It’s hassle though, and just gets harder. Within 1 week we are finding that it will likely be easier to use our own water-making systems that bother trying to find a tap.

Waste water:

France - Super easy, water service points are literally everywhere, all well signposted. Tap always also available unless it’s frozen or been switched off to prevent frost damage. Then you use the public toilet, all of which still have… a tap.

UK - Grey waste has to be be road side near a road drain or to a verge, as there is just nowhere to properly get rid of it. Thankfully it doesn’t do harm to the environment. For black waste, you have to find a (open, if you can) public toilet. Many public loos appear to have been converted to those auto water dispenser systems, so a water refill isn’t possible. It seems to us that most don’t bother with this hassle, making the few places where you can wild camp in some sort of peace look and smell like refugee camps.

Laundry
France - Again, super easy. Every supermarket has large and small commercial machines and a commercial dryer. Always available, Park next to it, load, have a coffee, done.

UK - You have to first find the nearest council estate, drive to the centre and locate the small parade of shops where the laundrette will be. Then queue, or pay for a ‘service wash’. Always keeping one eye on the van as the natives regard the great alien beast and it’s contents with great interest…

Attitude

France - You are welcome pretty much everywhere, being seen as potentially speeding money and contributing to the local economy, even just by buying a baguette from the boulanger.

UK - You are generally treated like any other ‘traveller’ - and sadly, due to the near-complete absence of facilities, many wild camping in UK behave as such. The rubbish and filth that accumulates anywhere people wildcamp in UK isn’t pretty.
Taking a fresh look at the UK from the perspective of living full time in a camper, the UK does now come across as being a bit intolerant and unwelcoming and generally has minimal consideration for travelling motorhomers beyond the network of private CC club sites.

I never used to get such a depressing feeling when coming back to UK from the continent in a camper, or when wilding here

Will update for those interested when we’ve made some progress with the search.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

Not a problem, ask away. I joined in the main to provide some help to others where I can. I was a chartered engineer for over two decades, and as a result just see a camper as just a collection of basic electrical and mechanical systems

I also see a camper as a collection of electrical and mechanical systems, none of which I understand.


Your detailed log though is really interesting, keep us all up to date, and good luck.

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[chaser]

We are relocating to France, we will be buying land, setting up a business. Better I have residence, pay taxes, build pension etc.

Thanks for the positive comments guys.

I got the 1yr visa yesterday. It starts from yesterday (15th) so we will be heading back to France on Wednesday to continue the search. While staying with friends for the last few days (a bed that doesn’t move, luxury!) we’ve serviced our old bus, completed the latest list of little maintenance jobs, cleaned her up and will do a fresh MOT tomorrow as that otherwise runs out within a couple of months. I always SORN if out of UK, but it crosses the line to be flitting round the continent with expired MOT.

After an initial 2 months in France and then 3 weeks wilding in England taking an arc from Kent south of London to Swindon, up through Herefordshire & Shropshire, then Cheshire and Lancashire we’ve noted some real differences in the state of the two countries and how different it is to wild camp.

Dear old blighty seems to be falling off a cliff. Roads are so potholed in places they are borderline dangerous, and the place is disgusting with litter lining the side of practically every road from country lanes to motorways. It now seems the done thing for people to just throw their litter out of their car. In comparison to France, indeed to practically anywhere in western Europe, England looks like one big rubbish dump. Visiting the island from the EU puts one in mind of travelling to some Indian or African slum. I don’t know why, I’d guess a mixture of culture ( too many just don’t care), too light fines and local authorities stopping roadside litter picking maybe? Whatever it is, it is getting worse.

Apologies to my Brexiteer friend who will no doubt be spitting out his Horlicks while spluttering about how we won the war - but from that perspective at the very least, the UK has entered a period of regression. Don’t shoot the messenger, facts are facts.


In my last post I said I’d contrast the full time motorhoming experience between France and UK (well, England), so here goes:

Out of season overnighting (on site/chargeable aire):

France - We didn’t stay on a proper site as most are closed. Chargeable aires, usually found in larger towns and city conurbations are about €8-14 inc free water and service with plastic membership card.

UK - The choice is between things like pub car parks, a handful of specialist overnight car parks or truck stops. Charges vary widely, but are very rarely less than £20 for a camper, with £25 seeming to be the most quoted number. Some pubs might let you stay for free, but you’d have to eat there.

Overnighting (off site):

France - Very easy. Almost all communes have an ‘aire’ designed and built specifically for motorhomes. Failing that, maries, sports stadiums and almost any car park inc supermarkets are fine to overnight in. Nobody moves you on, nobody bothers you. Out in the sticks, we’ve parked overnight on field access tracks dozens of times. As long as you don’t prevent the farmer from getting past in his tractor, and don’t leave any rubbish, all you ever get is a cheery wave.

UK - In general, it is difficult to find somewhere quiet and safe. Most car parks have height restrictions, almost all public spaces have height restrictions and very clear and aggressive ‘no overnight’ signs. Park in the ‘wrong’ place and you can expect a knock on the door.

Finding fresh water:

France - super easy. All aires have an often free tap. If there’s a charge to use, it’s usually €2. In 2 months we never needed to use our own onboard systems to produce water.

UK - The only real option is to find an independent garage and ask if you can use their tap/hose in return for buying some fuel. As these types of operations decline ever further, it just gets harder. In desperation, in the last few days I asked some Albanians if I could use their hose in one of the hand car washes - I could see this wasn’t the first time they’d been asked, the jokers demanded £15 for 100ltr I of course politely told them to go poke it and finally found a kind old gent in a garden centre who was willing to let us use his tap. It’s hassle though, and just gets harder. Within 1 week we are finding that it will likely be easier to use our own water-making systems that bother trying to find a tap.

Waste water:

France - Super easy, water service points are literally everywhere, all well signposted. Tap always also available unless it’s frozen or been switched off to prevent frost damage. Then you use the public toilet, all of which still have… a tap.

UK - Grey waste has to be be road side near a road drain or to a verge, as there is just nowhere to properly get rid of it. Thankfully it doesn’t do harm to the environment. For black waste, you have to find a (open, if you can) public toilet. Many public loos appear to have been converted to those auto water dispenser systems, so a water refill isn’t possible. It seems to us that most don’t bother with this hassle, making the few places where you can wild camp in some sort of peace look and smell like refugee camps.

Laundry
France - Again, super easy. Every supermarket has large and small commercial machines and a commercial dryer. Always available, Park next to it, load, have a coffee, done.

UK - You have to first find the nearest council estate, drive to the centre and locate the small parade of shops where the laundrette will be. Then queue, or pay for a ‘service wash’. Always keeping one eye on the van as the natives regard the great alien beast and it’s contents with great interest…

Attitude

France - You are welcome pretty much everywhere, being seen as potentially speeding money and contributing to the local economy, even just by buying a baguette from the boulanger.

UK - You are generally treated like any other ‘traveller’ - and sadly, due to the near-complete absence of facilities, many wild camping in UK behave as such. The rubbish and filth that accumulates anywhere people wildcamp in UK isn’t pretty.
Taking a fresh look at the UK from the perspective of living full time in a camper, the UK does now come across as being a bit intolerant and unwelcoming and generally has minimal consideration for travelling motorhomers beyond the network of private CC club sites.

I never used to get such a depressing feeling when coming back to UK from the continent in a camper, or when wilding here

Will update for those interested when we’ve made some progress with the search.

No argument with that I'm afraid and the worst of it ,it won't get any better.

 

[Minxy]

I always SORN if out of UK, but it crosses the line to be flitting round the continent with expired MOT.

Quite apart from the legality issue, you need to check your insurance policy requirements as you may find that this likely means you only have third party cover, ie no cover for your MH!

Apologies to my Brexiteer friend who will no doubt be spitting out his Horlicks while spluttering about how we won the war

Can I suggest you stop this now before it descends into a slanging match with trips to Coventry that could seriously affect your house hunting!

UK - You have to first find the nearest council estate, drive to the centre and locate the small parade of shops where the laundrette will be. Then queue, or pay for a ‘service wash’. Always keeping one eye on the van as the natives regard the great alien beast and it’s contents with great interest

There are laundry areas popping up at fuel stations, supermarkets etc in the UK now so no need to visit a council estate, not that I agree with your insinuation about them (all) being as you describe (ex-council estate kid).

I agree with some of the things you've said but not others and could easily give a different perspective on things you've mentioned but won't, suffice to say that you need to look at other areas of the UK which aren't anything like those you seem to have visited and therefore not imply that everywhere is as you make it appear.

I hope you manage to find whatever you are looking for in France but remember everything isn't rosy there either.

 

[CazPaul]

I never realised the UK was as bad as you portray, i must have been travelling in different countries over the years. The people on council estates I have always found to be lovely.

 

[Northernraider]

We are relocating to France, we will be buying land, setting up a business. Better I have residence, pay taxes, build pension etc.

Thanks for the positive comments guys.

I got the 1yr visa yesterday. It starts from yesterday (15th) so we will be heading back to France on Wednesday to continue the search. While staying with friends for the last few days (a bed that doesn’t move, luxury!) we’ve serviced our old bus, completed the latest list of little maintenance jobs, cleaned her up and will do a fresh MOT tomorrow as that otherwise runs out within a couple of months. I always SORN if out of UK, but it crosses the line to be flitting round the continent with expired MOT.

After an initial 2 months in France and then 3 weeks wilding in England taking an arc from Kent south of London to Swindon, up through Herefordshire & Shropshire, then Cheshire and Lancashire we’ve noted some real differences in the state of the two countries and how different it is to wild camp.

Dear old blighty seems to be falling off a cliff. Roads are so potholed in places they are borderline dangerous, and the place is disgusting with litter lining the side of practically every road from country lanes to motorways. It now seems the done thing for people to just throw their litter out of their car. In comparison to France, indeed to practically anywhere in western Europe, England looks like one big rubbish dump. Visiting the island from the EU puts one in mind of travelling to some Indian or African slum. I don’t know why, I’d guess a mixture of culture ( too many just don’t care), too light fines and local authorities stopping roadside litter picking maybe? Whatever it is, it is getting worse.

Apologies to my Brexiteer friend who will no doubt be spitting out his Horlicks while spluttering about how we won the war - but from that perspective at the very least, the UK has entered a period of regression. Don’t shoot the messenger, facts are facts.


In my last post I said I’d contrast the full time motorhoming experience between France and UK (well, England), so here goes:

Out of season overnighting (on site/chargeable aire):

France - We didn’t stay on a proper site as most are closed. Chargeable aires, usually found in larger towns and city conurbations are about €8-14 inc free water and service with plastic membership card.

UK - The choice is between things like pub car parks, a handful of specialist overnight car parks or truck stops. Charges vary widely, but are very rarely less than £20 for a camper, with £25 seeming to be the most quoted number. Some pubs might let you stay for free, but you’d have to eat there.

Overnighting (off site):

France - Very easy. Almost all communes have an ‘aire’ designed and built specifically for motorhomes. Failing that, maries, sports stadiums and almost any car park inc supermarkets are fine to overnight in. Nobody moves you on, nobody bothers you. Out in the sticks, we’ve parked overnight on field access tracks dozens of times. As long as you don’t prevent the farmer from getting past in his tractor, and don’t leave any rubbish, all you ever get is a cheery wave.

UK - In general, it is difficult to find somewhere quiet and safe. Most car parks have height restrictions, almost all public spaces have height restrictions and very clear and aggressive ‘no overnight’ signs. Park in the ‘wrong’ place and you can expect a knock on the door.

Finding fresh water:

France - super easy. All aires have an often free tap. If there’s a charge to use, it’s usually €2. In 2 months we never needed to use our own onboard systems to produce water.

UK - The only real option is to find an independent garage and ask if you can use their tap/hose in return for buying some fuel. As these types of operations decline ever further, it just gets harder. In desperation, in the last few days I asked some Albanians if I could use their hose in one of the hand car washes - I could see this wasn’t the first time they’d been asked, the jokers demanded £15 for 100ltr I of course politely told them to go poke it and finally found a kind old gent in a garden centre who was willing to let us use his tap. It’s hassle though, and just gets harder. Within 1 week we are finding that it will likely be easier to use our own water-making systems that bother trying to find a tap.

Waste water:

France - Super easy, water service points are literally everywhere, all well signposted. Tap always also available unless it’s frozen or been switched off to prevent frost damage. Then you use the public toilet, all of which still have… a tap.

UK - Grey waste has to be be road side near a road drain or to a verge, as there is just nowhere to properly get rid of it. Thankfully it doesn’t do harm to the environment. For black waste, you have to find a (open, if you can) public toilet. Many public loos appear to have been converted to those auto water dispenser systems, so a water refill isn’t possible. It seems to us that most don’t bother with this hassle, making the few places where you can wild camp in some sort of peace look and smell like refugee camps.

Laundry
France - Again, super easy. Every supermarket has large and small commercial machines and a commercial dryer. Always available, Park next to it, load, have a coffee, done.

UK - You have to first find the nearest council estate, drive to the centre and locate the small parade of shops where the laundrette will be. Then queue, or pay for a ‘service wash’. Always keeping one eye on the van as the natives regard the great alien beast and it’s contents with great interest…

Attitude

France - You are welcome pretty much everywhere, being seen as potentially speeding money and contributing to the local economy, even just by buying a baguette from the boulanger.

UK - You are generally treated like any other ‘traveller’ - and sadly, due to the near-complete absence of facilities, many wild camping in UK behave as such. The rubbish and filth that accumulates anywhere people wildcamp in UK isn’t pretty.
Taking a fresh look at the UK from the perspective of living full time in a camper, the UK does now come across as being a bit intolerant and unwelcoming and generally has minimal consideration for travelling motorhomers beyond the network of private CC club sites.

I never used to get such a depressing feeling when coming back to UK from the continent in a camper, or when wilding here

Will update for those interested when we’ve made some progress with the search.

Aye that pretty much sums it up. I tend to only spend a few days travelling through England. I'm not keen on France for various reasons but it is easy to motorhome there. Wouldn't want to live there either though