Full time through winter in search of new life (3 Viewers)

[suavecarve]

Quite apart from the legality issue, you need to check your insurance policy requirements as you may find that this likely means you only have third party cover, ie no cover for your MH!


Can I suggest you stop this now before it descends into a slanging match with trips to Coventry that could seriously affect your house hunting!


There are laundry areas popping up at fuel stations, supermarkets etc in the UK now so no need to visit a council estate, not that I agree with your insinuation about them (all) being as you describe (ex-council estate kid).

I agree with some of the things you've said but not others and could easily give a different perspective on things you've mentioned but won't, suffice to say that you need to look at other areas of the UK which aren't anything like those you seem to have visited and therefore not imply that everywhere is as you make it appear.

I hope you manage to find whatever you are looking for in France but remember everything isn't rosy there either.

Leafy Surrey/hants border here. Our butler says he is unaware of any launderettes by supermarkets around here.
Daughter now lives on an estate........
,........12000 acres of it.
I thought it was really quite accurate but agree with the possibility of a cheap shot possibly causing issues if it continues on a wonderful thread

 

[uzsnowdrop]

Leafy Surrey/hants border here. Our butler says he is unaware of any launderettes by supermarkets around here.
Daughter now lives on an estate........
,........12000 acres of it.
I thought it was really quite accurate but agree with the possibility of a cheap shot possibly causing issues if it continues on a wonderful thread

Agree with suavecarve, ‘Maison a loyer modere’ sounds so much better than ‘council house’ .

That said, France is ‘meh’ to me but what an interesting thread. Would take me ages to type all that .. keep up the updates and good luck in your quest

 

[chaser]

We are relocating to France, we will be buying land, setting up a business. Better I have residence, pay taxes, build pension etc.

Thanks for the positive comments guys.

I got the 1yr visa yesterday. It starts from yesterday (15th) so we will be heading back to France on Wednesday to continue the search. While staying with friends for the last few days (a bed that doesn’t move, luxury!) we’ve serviced our old bus, completed the latest list of little maintenance jobs, cleaned her up and will do a fresh MOT tomorrow as that otherwise runs out within a couple of months. I always SORN if out of UK, but it crosses the line to be flitting round the continent with expired MOT.

After an initial 2 months in France and then 3 weeks wilding in England taking an arc from Kent south of London to Swindon, up through Herefordshire & Shropshire, then Cheshire and Lancashire we’ve noted some real differences in the state of the two countries and how different it is to wild camp.

Dear old blighty seems to be falling off a cliff. Roads are so potholed in places they are borderline dangerous, and the place is disgusting with litter lining the side of practically every road from country lanes to motorways. It now seems the done thing for people to just throw their litter out of their car. In comparison to France, indeed to practically anywhere in western Europe, England looks like one big rubbish dump. Visiting the island from the EU puts one in mind of travelling to some Indian or African slum. I don’t know why, I’d guess a mixture of culture ( too many just don’t care), too light fines and local authorities stopping roadside litter picking maybe? Whatever it is, it is getting worse.

Apologies to my Brexiteer friend who will no doubt be spitting out his Horlicks while spluttering about how we won the war - but from that perspective at the very least, the UK has entered a period of regression. Don’t shoot the messenger, facts are facts.


In my last post I said I’d contrast the full time motorhoming experience between France and UK (well, England), so here goes:

Out of season overnighting (on site/chargeable aire):

France - We didn’t stay on a proper site as most are closed. Chargeable aires, usually found in larger towns and city conurbations are about €8-14 inc free water and service with plastic membership card.

UK - The choice is between things like pub car parks, a handful of specialist overnight car parks or truck stops. Charges vary widely, but are very rarely less than £20 for a camper, with £25 seeming to be the most quoted number. Some pubs might let you stay for free, but you’d have to eat there.

Overnighting (off site):

France - Very easy. Almost all communes have an ‘aire’ designed and built specifically for motorhomes. Failing that, maries, sports stadiums and almost any car park inc supermarkets are fine to overnight in. Nobody moves you on, nobody bothers you. Out in the sticks, we’ve parked overnight on field access tracks dozens of times. As long as you don’t prevent the farmer from getting past in his tractor, and don’t leave any rubbish, all you ever get is a cheery wave.

UK - In general, it is difficult to find somewhere quiet and safe. Most car parks have height restrictions, almost all public spaces have height restrictions and very clear and aggressive ‘no overnight’ signs. Park in the ‘wrong’ place and you can expect a knock on the door.

Finding fresh water:

France - super easy. All aires have an often free tap. If there’s a charge to use, it’s usually €2. In 2 months we never needed to use our own onboard systems to produce water.

UK - The only real option is to find an independent garage and ask if you can use their tap/hose in return for buying some fuel. As these types of operations decline ever further, it just gets harder. In desperation, in the last few days I asked some Albanians if I could use their hose in one of the hand car washes - I could see this wasn’t the first time they’d been asked, the jokers demanded £15 for 100ltr I of course politely told them to go poke it and finally found a kind old gent in a garden centre who was willing to let us use his tap. It’s hassle though, and just gets harder. Within 1 week we are finding that it will likely be easier to use our own water-making systems that bother trying to find a tap.

Waste water:

France - Super easy, water service points are literally everywhere, all well signposted. Tap always also available unless it’s frozen or been switched off to prevent frost damage. Then you use the public toilet, all of which still have… a tap.

UK - Grey waste has to be be road side near a road drain or to a verge, as there is just nowhere to properly get rid of it. Thankfully it doesn’t do harm to the environment. For black waste, you have to find a (open, if you can) public toilet. Many public loos appear to have been converted to those auto water dispenser systems, so a water refill isn’t possible. It seems to us that most don’t bother with this hassle, making the few places where you can wild camp in some sort of peace look and smell like refugee camps.

Laundry
France - Again, super easy. Every supermarket has large and small commercial machines and a commercial dryer. Always available, Park next to it, load, have a coffee, done.

UK - You have to first find the nearest council estate, drive to the centre and locate the small parade of shops where the laundrette will be. Then queue, or pay for a ‘service wash’. Always keeping one eye on the van as the natives regard the great alien beast and it’s contents with great interest…

Attitude

France - You are welcome pretty much everywhere, being seen as potentially speeding money and contributing to the local economy, even just by buying a baguette from the boulanger.

UK - You are generally treated like any other ‘traveller’ - and sadly, due to the near-complete absence of facilities, many wild camping in UK behave as such. The rubbish and filth that accumulates anywhere people wildcamp in UK isn’t pretty.
Taking a fresh look at the UK from the perspective of living full time in a camper, the UK does now come across as being a bit intolerant and unwelcoming and generally has minimal consideration for travelling motorhomers beyond the network of private CC club sites.

I never used to get such a depressing feeling when coming back to UK from the continent in a camper, or when wilding here

Will update for those interested when we’ve made some progress with the search.

While I agree with you about UK motorhomeing I don't think you are going to find France so Rosie in a couple of years, all the towns and villages are dyeing on their feet, shops boarded up and old fashioned streets all being dug up and replaced with all the same white blocks, Aires being replaced with campingcarpark type things, campsites even dearer than some here add in speed bumps and roundabouts , motorway tolls , diesel price.
We have been going regular for over 10 years and the difference we have seen in that time is unbelievable , especially this last year, and all nothing to do with what you keep blaming it on, it's just the same world over, and I wouldn't like to be in your position, trying to start a business in campsites the state the world is now.
You have got a lot of homework and head scratching to do yet.

 

[steve69]

France does have twice the inhabitable land area of the UK. That can only be a help for wildcamping.

 

[chaser]

France does have twice the inhabitable land area of the UK. That can only be a help for wildcamping.

Yeah but that doesn't really work very well for someone opening a campsite.

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[Mousy]

Mr Mousy

We agree about the litter in the UK. Spent 3 months in Croatia last year and it was spotless.

 

[Northernraider]

Mr Mousy

We agree about the litter in the UK. Spent 3 months in Croatia last year and it was spotless.

Not sure about engerland but I always think Scotland is pretty good regarding litter. Don't see a lot of it . But Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, Albania, Bulgaria and Romania were terrible.

The fly tipping is another thing too

 

[Northernraider]

Quite apart from the legality issue, you need to check your insurance policy requirements as you may find that this likely means you only have third party cover, ie no cover for your MH!

I'm not actually sure there would be a legality issue with this.

No idea if when we were part of the EU if there was some like for like arrangement with regards to paying tax for using roads but I'm willing to bet there isn't one now .

So paying road tax to the UK when not in the UK probably has no illegality.

The insurance of course may well be a different thing but one could argue with them that if the vehicle is not in the UK for the period its not taxed then it shouldn't be an issue.

I've personally never thought about sorning a vehicle when out of the UK but I very much doubt its of any interest to the authorities in other countries.

They've no way of checking if it's taxed or not and they don't benefit or lose anything regardless.

 

[L' Hobo]

I always SORN if out of UK, but it crosses the line to be flitting round the continent with expired MOT.

dawsey, I would suggest that you read the conditions of SORNing you vehicle because what you are doing is illegal and will, probably, invalidate your insurance if you have an accident because many Insurance Companies have access to the DVLA database as I could when I had my Coaching business and could show a legitimate interest.

SORN= STATUTORY OFF ROAD NOTIFICATION.
This means it cannot be driven (or parked) on any public road when it has been registered as SORN.

When my Coaches were driving in France, they had to be completely legally tested and taxed correctly in their Country of Origin.
IF your vehicle is registered in Britain and is registered as SORN, and you are driving on ANY public road, you are doing it illegally unless you have a booked MOT appointment!

Just a word of advice and not judgemental. It's up to you what you do as I will not be travelling in France in the foreseeable future.

 

[L' Hobo]

Leafy Surrey/hants border here. Our butler says he is unaware of any launderettes by supermarkets around here.

There is a number around the Walton -on-Thames, Weybridge area although I am not surprised that your Butler not knowing, surely that's the domain of your Housekeeper or Scullery Maid?

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[Coastal Cruiser.]

being as you describe (ex-council estate kid).

Ditto,
Seems I have got on ok in life and have managed to buy/run a mid range van

 

[steve69]

dawsey, I would suggest that you read the conditions of SORNing you vehicle because what you are doing is illegal and will, probably, invalidate your insurance

That is the moot point I think. Being taxed is a condition of validity of insurance. No road tax, no insurance - regardless of where you are, other than "off road".

 

[chesterfield hooligan]

The campsites we have visited in France can be booked a year in advance by the French, if in the right situation I have seen a campsite closed down next to a aire which was free.

 

[cyberyacht]

Another one from "wrong side of the tracks". I'm sure, however, that my premiums would rise if I kept the motorhome at the address where I was 'brung up'.

 

[Northernraider]

Another one from "wrong side of the tracks". I'm sure, however, that my premiums would rise if I kept the motorhome at the address where I was 'brung up'.

I'm also from a council estate , my mums lived in the Same house she was born in 79 years ago. I park up there for the time when I'm back home , my motorhome us insured there . My premium is fairly low.


But very few of the houses there are council owned now they were all bought years ago

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[Minxy]

I'm not actually sure there would be a legality issue with this.

No idea if when we were part of the EU if there was some like for like arrangement with regards to paying tax for using roads but I'm willing to bet there isn't one now .

So paying road tax to the UK when not in the UK probably has no illegality.

The insurance of course may well be a different thing but one could argue with them that if the vehicle is not in the UK for the period its not taxed then it shouldn't be an issue.

I've personally never thought about sorning a vehicle when out of the UK but I very much doubt its of any interest to the authorities in other countries.

They've no way of checking if it's taxed or not and they don't benefit or lose anything regardless.

Sorry but you are incorrect. As others have mentioned, if it's not legal to drive it on the road in its country of registration it's not legal anywhere else. If there's a multi-vehicle accident the OP won't have any cover for his vehicle, just the other one(s) involved assuming he has fully paid up insurance and he was at fault.

 

[Minxy]

my motorhome us insured there .

I assume you don't therefore have full-timer MH insurance? If so if you need to make a claim you are likely to be told to go forth and m.....

 

[Northernraider]

Sorry but you are incorrect. As others have mentioned, if it's not legal to drive it on the road in its country of registration it's not legal anywhere else. If there's a multi-vehicle accident the OP won't have any cover for his vehicle, just the other one(s) involved assuming he has fully paid up insurance and he was at fault.

I disagree. The UK has no reach to Europe with regards to UK road tax . Its illegal to use a vehicle on UK roads without UK road tax but as I said before I doubt any authority in Europe would bother to check . Insurance is the only people that would if there was an accident.

 

[Northernraider]

I assume you don't therefore have full-timer MH insurance? If so if you need to make a claim you are likely to be told to go forth and m.....

I don't have a fulltime policy. I have a 365 continous use policy that allows me to use and travel in my motorhome for up to 365 days a year. ... ie I use it as it was intended.

I've had this conversation with my insurers every year for the last five years . The only thing I would not be covered for is accommodation if I was at home where it is parked for 5/6 months of the year . Same as everyone else's

 

[Minxy]

I disagree. The UK has no reach to Europe with regards to UK road tax . Its illegal to use a vehicle on UK roads without UK road tax but as I said before I doubt any authority in Europe would bother to check . Insurance is the only people that would if there was an accident.

I suggest you read up about it yourself, a pertinent point ref your comment is: "Your vehicle must stay in the UK for your SORN to be valid".

When you need to make a SORN

How and when to make a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) to stop taxing and insuring your vehicle, including when the SORN is valid, penalties and rules for motor traders.

www.gov.uk

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[Northernraider]

I suggest you read up about it yourself, a pertinent point ref your comment is: "Your vehicle must stay in the UK for your SORN to be valid".

When you need to make a SORN

How and when to make a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) to stop taxing and insuring your vehicle, including when the SORN is valid, penalties and rules for motor traders.

www.gov.uk

They also say you NEED a UK sticker lol


Little Britain has bugger all influence in Europe these days.

 

[Minxy]

I don't have a fulltime policy. I have a 365 continous use policy that allows me to use and travel in my motorhome for up to 365 days a year. ... ie I use it as it was intended.

I've had this conversation with my insurers every year for the last five years . The only thing I would not be covered for is accommodation if I was at home where it is parked for 5/6 months of the year . Same as everyone else's

If you are happy that you are fully covered then that's okay but I think it could be interesting if you ever needed to make a claim especially since you have stated on here and no doubt elsewhere that you live in it full time.

PS: what happens in leap years?

 

[Minxy]

They also say you NEED a UK sticker lol


Little Britain has bugger all influence in Europe these days.

Trouble could start though if you are involved in an accident abroad where things will be checked, and of course when returning to the UK.

 

[Northernraider]

If you are happy that you are fully covered then that's okay but I think it could be interesting if you ever needed to make a claim especially since you have stated on here and no doubt elsewhere that you live in it full time.

PS: what happens in leap years?

It's the alternative accommodation that most fulltimers have an issue with. I don't as I'd simply stay in the house the vans parked at lol

 

[Northernraider]

Trouble could start though if you are involved in an accident abroad where things will be checked, and of course when returning to the UK.

Most folk in Europe don't know where the UK is lol

I've a sticker in my glove box

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[dawsey]

Many thanks for the comments. A very witty and droll lot u guys are. The council estate thing was meant as a funny joke (with small element of truth), not as any snob thing. It’s my background also. Also agree with the advice on not getting into some slanging thing, life is too short. Always been one for reacting, the future improved continental me will take a deep breath, another glass of red and just ignore.

Mucho good advice and I don’t think France is paradise, far from it I know.

I will post something in a couple of months on how it is going. Passed MOT today so leaving UK tomorrow.

 

[Minxy]

Most folk in Europe don't know where the UK is lol

I've a sticker in my glove box

We've been asked twice now if we're from Ukraine! We've had quite a few instances of people walking by who stopped to check out our registration which has a Union Flag and UK on it and seem to be rather perplexed!

 

[Northernraider]

We've been asked twice now if we're from Ukraine! We've had quite a few instances of people walking by who stopped to check out our registration which has a Union Flag and UK on it and seem to be rather perplexed!

I rest my case



I have sco on mine


Ive overheards Numerous conversations outside my van with people discussing where I'm from

 

[L' Hobo]

I disagree. The UK has no reach to Europe with regards to UK road tax . Its illegal to use a vehicle on UK roads without UK road tax but as I said before I doubt any authority in Europe would bother to check . Insurance is the only people that would if there was an accident.

While I think you may be right in normal circumstances, 'the Authorities would not bother to check'.

In a fatal accident, no matter who was to blame, I think the Insurance Company might be, especially if the compensation bill was in the millions of pounds.
IF they decided that the OP was driving illegally, they could invalidate his insurance policy as it is his signature on the T &C's which normally state that 'the vehicle is in a legal and roadworthy condition.'

dawsey then could be totally responsible, not the Insurance Company. He could be jailed and have to pay the compensation bill and if his own Insurance Company disowned him, the others involved would be down on him like a ton of bricks.

Unless he has very deep pockets, he could, not only lose his liberty but his van and all his saving for a very long time for the sake of a few hundred pounds!

I truly hope that the above never happens but for the sake of a few hundred pounds, I know what I would do especially when anyone can go onto the Gov UK website and check the MOT/TAX history & status of a vehicle if you have the Reg No.!

 

[pampam]

Yeah im terrified of not being”legit” on the road for that reason alone, incase we hurt someone else,(touch wood) i dont even like to think of it urgh(thats me doing a shudder)

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