Full time through winter in search of new life

Thanks Guys.

We already finding info about the flood risk. Last serious flood was 2002, apparently a big one with all campsites along the river ‘destroyed’. Hmmm. I guess we need to look at how the risk can be managed, and affects borrowing and insurance before deciding on an offer. Ahhh, there’s always a compromise.

The location is really lovely, with campsite rentals, play ground, swim pool on one side and a vast camping, aire de camping car area on the other side, just as we had hoped to find. This the view of the site from the camper window. A river where you can pan for gold forms one side.
 
Panning for gold could be a "USP" for the site!

There are many places in the USA where they will rent you the kit for the day, and run 'how to pan for gold' sessions (for a fee).

It could be a fun event for the kids, with a 'guarantee' that you may find gold!
 
dawsey said:
Thanks Guys.

We already finding info about the flood risk. Last serious flood was 2002, apparently a big one with all campsites along the river ‘destroyed’. Hmmm. I guess we need to look at how the risk can be managed, and affects borrowing and insurance before deciding on an offer. Ahhh, there’s always a compromise.

The location is really lovely, with campsite rentals, play ground, swim pool on one side and a vast camping, aire de camping car area on the other side, just as we had hoped to find. This the view of the site from the camper window. A river where you can pan for gold forms one side.
Click to expand...
Flood risk can be mitigated.
You need a lot more info though.

What time of the year does the river tend to peak ?
Is there a risk of flash floods? (usually end of summer, in which case they can be disastrous on a camp site)
How high does the flood water go, both recently and also historically.
How often in the last 100 years has the site flooded ?
Are there any old bridges just downstream ? (As trees can block arches, which then pools water upstream)

Flood water, 10cm across a campsite will close the site, but with advance planning you can reopen as soon as it dries out.
1m of water can involve a bit of clearing up, but again, if you build with this in mind, for example, no fencing use hedges, Loo blocks above ground level, ensure all sewage has non return valves, all electrics at waist height and above, all meters, boilers, fuse boxes etc in the attic, waterproof flooring, (tennis court tarmac, is a surprisingly good option), a sump with a pond pump, etc etc.
Not expensive options if done at the time of the build, and can save thousands 'when' (not if), it floods.

If the flood is high (1.5/2m and above) then you need to think of other options, such as loo blocks built on floating concrete boxes. But that can get expensive.
 
dawsey said:
Thanks Guys.

We already finding info about the flood risk. Last serious flood was 2002, apparently a big one with all campsites along the river ‘destroyed’. Hmmm. I guess we need to look at how the risk can be managed, and affects borrowing and insurance before deciding on an offer. Ahhh, there’s always a compromise.

The location is really lovely, with campsite rentals, play ground, swim pool on one side and a vast camping, aire de camping car area on the other side, just as we had hoped to find. This the view of the site from the camper window. A river where you can pan for gold forms one side.
Click to expand...
If they have accepted your offer on the first one, I thought that was binding in France, so can you leave it?

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chaser said:
If they have accepted your offer on the first one, I thought that was binding in France, so can you leave it?
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It sounds like the offer is 'with subjects' (ie 8% short of the price)
Therefore the offer is not 'accepted outright'
The final recapitulation has not been offered or accepted by either party.

Under English law, either party can still walk away.
However France works under Roman law, so there will be differences.
(Hence why international companies buying large items usually insist on English law on the contract, even if zero English involvement)
 
It isn’t in writing, they didn’t want it in writing. And they have not even verbally accepted it, plus they know we have caveat on the accounts for the murs which for some reason they have refused to share.

When they called yesterday they said they would accept if we let them keep 20% of the land that was advertised for sale - very cheeky.
 
Brains said:
Flood risk can be mitigated.
You need a lot more info though.

What time of the year does the river tend to peak ?
Is there a risk of flash floods? (usually end of summer, in which case they can be disastrous on a camp site)
How high does the flood water go, both recently and also historically.
How often in the last 100 years has the site flooded ?
Are there any old bridges just downstream ? (As trees can block arches, which then pools water upstream)

Flood water, 10cm across a campsite will close the site, but with advance planning you can reopen as soon as it dries out.
1m of water can involve a bit of clearing up, but again, if you build with this in mind, for example, no fencing use hedges, Loo blocks above ground level, ensure all sewage has non return valves, all electrics at waist height and above, all meters, boilers, fuse boxes etc in the attic, waterproof flooring, (tennis court tarmac, is a surprisingly good option), a sump with a pond pump, etc etc.
Not expensive options if done at the time of the build, and can save thousands 'when' (not if), it floods.

If the flood is high (1.5/2m and above) then you need to think of other options, such as loo blocks built on floating concrete boxes. But that can get expensive.
Click to expand...

Thanks, we had thought of most but not all those questions for the meeting today so will ask.

To be honest I’m not so worried about the flood risk as I am aware it can be mitigated, it’s the fire risk that worries me more. It is tinder dry here already on 3rd May, hasn’t rained for months.

At least the sappeur pompiers would have plenty of water what with the river.
 
Brains said:
?
Click to expand...
yeah sorry, we sometimes struggle to upload images here. They keep being rejected. I’m adjusting res with no joy, must be doing something wrong.

Great layout, no demarcation by design. To make you feel more in nature.

Yes the gold panning is its USP. It has even been on French TV. One or two of the 20 residents is a mad keen panner, he has found about 8oz over 4 years.

I try again….
3D33FCAF-8076-4338-96D6-0F7101DD959E.jpeg
 
dawsey said:
Thanks, we had thought of most but not all those questions for the meeting today so will ask.

To be honest I’m not so worried about the flood risk as I am aware it can be mitigated, it’s the fire risk that worries me more. It is tinder dry here already on 3rd May, hasn’t rained for months.

At least the sappeur pompiers would have plenty of water what with the river.
Click to expand...
Even fire risk can be mitigated to a degree.
Control all undergrowth, and do deciduous planting, as it does not burn so easily, remove any pine/firs and Eucalyptus.

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dawsey said:
yeah sorry, we sometimes struggle to upload images here. They keep being rejected. I’m adjusting res with no joy, must be doing something wrong.

Great layout, no demarcation by design. To make you feel more in nature.

Yes the gold panning is its USP. It has even been on French TV. One or two of the 20 residents is a mad keen panner, he has found about 8oz over 4 years.

I try again….View attachment 747127
Click to expand...
Ooooh, yes I see the fire risk.
I'd start by thinning out those trees and replacing them with more suitable ones.

That grass needs to be kept down.

I'd seriously look into getting a couple of llamas (or alpaca's)
When you get them, you pen them into a small area of the site for a few days, then set them free on the site. They will return to their original pitch and use that as a midden, so you don't end up with llama shit all over the site. They don't eat most shrubs or flowers and any dog that wants to take them on will soon learn their mistake.
They are common on South American campsites as lawnmowers, but I've not seen it done in Europe, there may be a (dog related ?)reason for this.
 
dawsey said:
Yes the gold panning is its USP. It has even been on French TV. One or two of the 20 residents is a mad keen panner, he has found about 8oz over 4 years.
Click to expand...
That is over £12k worth of gold!
You better ensure you have the mineral rights so that you can claim your percentage !
 
Brains said:
Ooooh, yes I see the fire risk.
I'd start by thinning out those trees and replacing them with more suitable ones.

That grass needs to be kept down.

I'd seriously look into getting a couple of llamas (or alpaca's)
When you get them, you pen them into a small area of the site for a few days, then set them free on the site. They will return to their original pitch and use that as a midden, so you don't end up with llama shit all over the site. They don't eat most shrubs or flowers and any dog that wants to take them on will soon learn their mistake.
They are common on South American campsites as lawnmowers, but I've not seen it done in Europe, there may be a (dog related ?)reason for this.
Click to expand...
Fascinating. Hasn’t heard of the llama thing before. Will look into it if we buy this. Thanks.

Truth be told it’s been awhile since we’ve been excited by something. The other place looked fun but the owners are really playing hardball and messing us about.

Just found out today about the maximum river level…… 2.5m deep in the campsite and to the ceiling of the ground floor of the large owners house on the site. They do not insure for flood risk and it may not actually be insurable.

This would make it a cash only sale….

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Brains said:
That is over £12k worth of gold!
You better ensure you have the mineral rights so that you can claim your percentage !
Click to expand...

The site has rights for both sides of the river. This chap is a resident and does it nearly every day and it is his life. I don’t think it’s a decent wage though at 3k per year.

Apparently this place is very famous for it and france’s annual gold panning championship is held in the nearby village. The campsites do well out of it, naturally :)
 
dawsey said:
yeah sorry, we sometimes struggle to upload images here. They keep being rejected. I’m adjusting res with no joy, must be doing something wrong.

Great layout, no demarcation by design. To make you feel more in nature.

Yes the gold panning is its USP. It has even been on French TV. One or two of the 20 residents is a mad keen panner, he has found about 8oz over 4 years.

I try again….View attachment 747127
Click to expand...
Blimey, my wife's currently addicted to the Australian gold hunter series on every teatime - looks like we'd be your first customers ;-)
 
DucatoMan2 said:
I love the alpaca idea, as it could solve a pet hate of mine - incessant motor mower noise
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Have you seen the price of alpacas ... Sheep would be cheaper. 😄
 
Minxy said:
Have you seen the price of alpacas ... Sheep would be cheaper. 😄
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Sheep crap all over the place, eat anything and are scared of dogs.
Llamas/Alpacas can be trained to crap in one place, only eat grass and actively dislike dogs (which may be a problem...)

In S. America Llamas are put in with the sheep herds to protect them from foxes, hence fox/dog is the same thing to a Llama.

Being cameloids, they are not keen on humans either, some are happy to be petted, but if you annoy them they will spit at you (think projectile vomit!) they can also bite and kick. But they are fine if they are left alone.

In S America where they are common, this is not an issue, every dog knows to keep clear, and every human knows be wary around them. llama lawnmowers would work fine on a European campsite, as long as people follow the basic rules.

Llamas are like a skittish horse, it may be fine to pet them and feed them but don't be surprised if they don't like you.

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Well, we departing the gold mining site near Montpelier now and heading North again. Weather (of course) really warming up now. This is a great time if the year to be in the South of France.

While we love this huge place, and its enormous ex silk mill 3 story 300m2 owners house there are many caveats, one being that the 40yr owners appear to be still getting over the loss of the Patriarch and are not even sure what is or what they want to include in the sale. There is huge question marks about one of the daughters horse riding operation next door, the treatment system does not conform (they never do), the number of one star seriously negative reviews for the site are shocking (we think the owner became very cantankerous and intolerant of complaint towards the end, and it rubbed off on all family and staff, and the reviews reflect it - we would need to change the name), all the mobile homes are 20-30years old and totally worn out as is the restaurant and the sanitary blocks. Then there is the question of loans, insurance, and the possibility of a biblical flood event as happened in 2002, not to mention the increasing risk of fire with it becoming ever more dry. I still struggle to picture the site under 2.5metres of river water. Apparently, when it happened, all 100 campers had to take shelter in the upper two floors of the owners house. The daughters both filled up when describing it - at least they were honest about it, unlike the bloody estate agents (no surprise there).

It is extremely beautiful, but the scale of the challenge is the same as the chateau campsite we are also considering.
 
Hi Everyone. We headed up the A75 up to Monpeyroux and now on a lovely little aire with views of the Cantal. Third time we’ve stayed on this aire! It’s funny how you get to know them, we now pretty much know where the best ones are in many parts of France. No snow left on the Cantals now though…

Le park de Cevennes, immediately above the last campsite we viewed is absolutely beautiful. There is just so much natural beauty in the southern half of France it is breathtaking.

The Garrd, about an hour north east of Montpelier, where the campsite was (it’s at the entrance of the national park) is super dry, in severe drought, not rained for months. Everything is tinder dry and there were pompiers out everywhere obviously practising for the worst over the summer.

We are 250km North of there right now and it’s raining.

It’s been 6 months and a week in the camper, and we are reaching our limits. For the usual reasons we do probably now need to move on from this type of lifestyle. We’ve seen 35 businesses, mostly campsites, in person, and analysed over 150 businesses remotely, by reviewing accounts, phone conversations and good old google.

We now have a reasonable handle on what’s out there, the different offerings and operational models, what the various stuff costs in different parts of the countries and the state of the market. It’s really interesting and some strange and surprising things have emerged.

Being a little geeky, we set up a spreadsheet with 25 factors scored from 1 to 10 and each weighted from 1 to 10. The products of factor and weight for each of the 25 were summed to give a score. Interestingly, the output almost exactly lined up with our preferences even though we designed it to try to minimise unconscious bias.

We have now, via the agents, had verbal discussions about offers on both of the two sites. One is already quite well progressed, we have already made our final offer. It was accepted in principle, the sticking point is the agents €70,000 fee which we refused to pay. We even offered to make a €30,000 contribution to the fee, the vendor asked the agent to drop his fee to €50,000 and they would make the difference and the agent refused. So there we are. This was the manor-house based site in Vienne, the one too near the industrial estate.

We have indicated we are ready to make an offer on the flood risk site just north of Montpelier. The site is up for €1.3m + fees + taxes, notaire etc. We offered €800k plus a half share of net proceeds of the sale of their 40 old static caravans, plus takeover post season (they keep 100% of profit) with us working for free for them through the season. We need somewhere to stay anyway. We would mitigate flood risk by no borrowing and removing assets - turn it into a 140 pitch old style riverside campsite for tents, camper vans and caravans. No borrowing and fewer staff means a lower turnover can be tolerated, and few accommodation assets means lower flood risk. In time, develop glamping accommodation on stilts, or maybe tree houses. Stuff that is less vulnerable to flooding. There is loads of room on 10Hectares, 25 acres.

We expect initial rejection and will see it if progresses…. :)

Whatever, we have now close up seen enough campsites for one lifetime! - you would be shocked at how some of the owners live, just how competitive it is, how expensive and difficult employing people is, and as a result, how little profit there is in it. I for one will never, ever again moan at the cost of a campsite in France :)
 
dawsey said:
Whatever, we have now close up seen enough campsites for one lifetime! - you would be shocked at how some of the owners live, just how competitive it is, how expensive and difficult employing people is, and as a result, how little profit there is in it. I for one will never, ever again moan at the cost of a campsite in France :)
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Following this with interest as we seriously thought about buying a campsite in the UK a few years back.

One of the options, before you get rid of all the old static's, is to keep the best 5 or 10 to use as staff accommodation for the net few years.

At the start of each season give the locals first bite of the cherry for summer jobs, but I suspect you will find, as in rural areas all over western Europe, the locals are lazy and don't really want to do the job. They also have a tendency to leave half way through the season as it's too much like hard work.

In the long term you probably need to build up a team of seasonal workers, probably from Eastern Europe.
As accommodation is part of the deal, it will cost you less money in wages and will get the job done a lot better. They also don't take random days off or get sick so often. If you are good to the staff, the staff will be good to you. You will get the same staff coming back season after season.
 
Brains said:
Following this with interest as we seriously thought about buying a campsite in the UK a few years back.

One of the options, before you get rid of all the old static's, is to keep the best 5 or 10 to use as staff accommodation for the net few years.

At the start of each season give the locals first bite of the cherry for summer jobs, but I suspect you will find, as in rural areas all over western Europe, the locals are lazy and don't really want to do the job. They also have a tendency to leave half way through the season as it's too much like hard work.

In the long term you probably need to build up a team of seasonal workers, probably from Eastern Europe.
As accommodation is part of the deal, it will cost you less money in wages and will get the job done a lot better. They also don't take random days off or get sick so often. If you are good to the staff, the staff will be good to you. You will get the same staff coming back season after season.
Click to expand...
Thanks Brains, I guess that’s your nickname for a reason. We planned already to keep the 14 residents, and there are two really big old statics we had earmarked for said purpose, the other option for that is the owners house, it is vast, a converted silk mill with about 7 bedrooms, as solid as fort knox, even 1st and second floors have quarry tile floors and the oak beams holding floors up are 2ft square! there’s loads of room on the entire ground floor which for some reason the owners don’t actually use…. We would expect that young fit seasonal workers would be faster up the stairs than flood water could rise.
 
Although I think your crazy to want such a big place but then again I always took the difficult route it’s what makes you who you are, I’m really interested in what you end up with… whatever you get I’ll come and visit for a while just to see the transformation you make on such a place, I like good bases in France I can chill for a while…😎
 
Thanks Smiffy. I hope u don’t mind mucking in with hard work….

To break the deadlock I have asked a face to face meeting with chateau site vendor and his agent to try to have one last chance to negotiate a deal without moving on the final offer.

I would love to do a classic car show on the front lawn of the chateau. I see how many of you chaps and ladies have some amazing stuff.

I continue to dream, Bea continues to suffer me….

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