Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation

[The Artilleryman]

What was your base vehicle ? I though tag axles were cab plus tag axle chassis from someone like Al Ko. If this is the case, then it was incorrectly registered by the selling dealer.

 

[PAGR]

The Artilleryman, Fiat X250 3.0l with Alko tag chassis. I think Brownhills were the original dealer, we are the third owners.
The V5 correctly shows PHGV, Motor Caravan and we pay the £165 VED.
With the potential new changes, what's the chance of the the N1 showing causing us grief going forward?

 

[Orion]

This was posted further up the thread:

“So, in short, uprates and downrates are still being recognised and this latest change has no impact at all on any vehicle altered prior to July 2024.”

 

[poppycamper]

What was your base vehicle ? I though tag axles were cab plus tag axle chassis from someone like Al Ko. If this is the case, then it was incorrectly registered by the selling dealer.

Unless converter, for some reason registered before conversion.. not likely I know, but would provide an answer

 

[Lenny HB]

I'm a little confused by the N1 definition. Our Autotrail Arapaho, 5.5T tag, is vehicle category N1, body type Motor Caravan and registered as so from new. We up plated from 5T gross a few years ago.

View attachment 970166

What does it say on your Certificate of Conformity?

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[The Artilleryman]

The Artilleryman, Fiat X250 3.0l with Alko tag chassis. I think Brownhills were the original dealer, we are the third owners.
The V5 correctly shows PHGV, Motor Caravan and we pay the £165 VED.
With the potential new changes, what's the chance of the the N1 showing causing us grief going forward?

Clearly Brownhills put the wrong category on 1st registration, but should not cause any problems going forward. But we are talking about DVLA.

 

[Gellyneck]

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! guys!

All this talk of simplifying categories is putting the fear of God into all the public servants being paid to administer the thing!

Have a wee bit of consideration for others who are only trying their best to keep us on the straight and narrow!

 

[CAB96]

The Artilleryman, Fiat X250 3.0l with Alko tag chassis. I think Brownhills were the original dealer, we are the third owners.
The V5 correctly shows PHGV, Motor Caravan and we pay the £165 VED.
With the potential new changes, what's the chance of the the N1 showing causing us grief going forward?

None. It doesn't matter.

You are listed as a PHGV with the correct weight.

I can't see the change in licence categories having any effect on your vehicle or tax.

 

[Lenny333]

Well… I’ve had a nice surprise this morning

We have a Consort Oslo which is a PVC based on a 6.36m Fiat Ducato which we’ve had since July this year. Its absolutely brilliant by the way!

A few weeks ago I changed our van with the DVLA from a Body Type of ‘Panel Van’ to ‘Motor Caravan’ by sending the DVLA a load of pictures as well as the original Converters brochure and was pleasantly surprised that it actually came back as a ‘Motor Caravan’ rather than a ‘van with windows’.

Then, I used SVTech to uprate it to 3900kg from its original 3500kg which was purely a paperwork exercise. They sent me an uprating certificate / Converters plate.

I then sent the various forms off to the DVLA including the tax change form to change from a Light Goods Vehicle to a Private Heavy Goods Vehicle.

From this thread and from what SVTech had told me, I wasn’t expecting this to happen but thought I’d seek forgiveness rather than permission . I thought it’s got to be worth a try though.

Well, this morning I got two envelopes through the post… the first returning the SVTech uprating form and including a letter saying that I should expect a refund in the next 4-6 weeks.

That got me excited…

The second envelope was the new V5 which now shows our van as a PHGV, a revenue weight of 3900kg and a Max. Permissible Mass of 3900kg.

So, for whatever reason, it looks like the DVLA has changed our details based on the old ‘rules’ and have ignored whatever has caused them to not do this change for others on this thread.

Don’t know if it’s just luck of the draw for who does the change at the DVLA or the order that I did things but I’m now happy that we’ll never be overweight (we are around 3750kg absolutely fully loaded) and we’ll pay less road tax. And… as it still looks like a Fiat Ducato I hope we still get Class 2 on the French toll roads!

Hope this helps anyone else who’s thinking of doing the same.

P.S. Just need some Angles Morte stickers now JIC

P.P.S. Anything else I need to think about for driving it now it’s a PHGV at 3900kg either in this country or abroad?

 

[Orion]

Well… I’ve had a nice surprise this morning

We have a Consort Oslo which is a PVC based on a 6.36m Fiat Ducato which we’ve had since July this year. Its absolutely brilliant by the way!

A few weeks ago I changed our van with the DVLA from a Body Type of ‘Panel Van’ to ‘Motor Caravan’ by sending the DVLA a load of pictures as well as the original Converters brochure and was pleasantly surprised that it actually came back as a ‘Motor Caravan’ rather than a ‘van with windows’.

Then, I used SVTech to uprate it to 3900kg from its original 3500kg which was purely a paperwork exercise. They sent me an uprating certificate / Converters plate.

I then sent the various forms off to the DVLA including the tax change form to change from a Light Goods Vehicle to a Private Heavy Goods Vehicle.

From this thread and from what SVTech had told me, I wasn’t expecting this to happen but thought I’d seek forgiveness rather than permission . I thought it’s got to be worth a try though.

Well, this morning I got two envelopes through the post… the first returning the SVTech uprating form and including a letter saying that I should expect a refund in the next 4-6 weeks.

That got me excited…

The second envelope was the new V5 which now shows our van as a PHGV, a revenue weight of 3900kg and a Max. Permissible Mass of 3900kg.

So, for whatever reason, it looks like the DVLA has changed our details based on the old ‘rules’ and have ignored whatever has caused them to not do this change for others on this thread.

Don’t know if it’s just luck of the draw for who does the change at the DVLA or the order that I did things but I’m now happy that we’ll never be overweight (we are around 3750kg absolutely fully loaded) and we’ll pay less road tax. And… as it still looks like a Fiat Ducato I hope we still get Class 2 on the French toll roads!

Hope this helps anyone else who’s thinking of doing the same.

P.S. Just need some Angles Morte stickers now JIC

P.P.S. Anything else I need to think about for driving it now it’s a PHGV at 3900kg either in this country or abroad?

Congratulations on the positive result.

Maybe it was the change to ‘Motorcaravan’ first off, before the up plating, that swung it for you.
Does the V5C still have an entry for N1, or did it ever? Or has that changed as well?

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[Lenny333]

Congratulations on the positive result.

Maybe it was the change to ‘Motorcaravan’ first off, before the up plating, that swung it for you.
Does the V5C still have an entry for N1, or did it ever? Or has that changed as well?

Thanks Orion

The vehicle category was N1 originally and is still N1 now

 

[L' Hobo]

Well… I’ve had a nice surprise this morning

We have a Consort Oslo which is a PVC based on a 6.36m Fiat Ducato which we’ve had since July this year. Its absolutely brilliant by the way!

A few weeks ago I changed our van with the DVLA from a Body Type of ‘Panel Van’ to ‘Motor Caravan’ by sending the DVLA a load of pictures as well as the original Converters brochure and was pleasantly surprised that it actually came back as a ‘Motor Caravan’ rather than a ‘van with windows’.

Then, I used SVTech to uprate it to 3900kg from its original 3500kg which was purely a paperwork exercise. They sent me an uprating certificate / Converters plate.

I then sent the various forms off to the DVLA including the tax change form to change from a Light Goods Vehicle to a Private Heavy Goods Vehicle.

From this thread and from what SVTech had told me, I wasn’t expecting this to happen but thought I’d seek forgiveness rather than permission . I thought it’s got to be worth a try though.

Well, this morning I got two envelopes through the post… the first returning the SVTech uprating form and including a letter saying that I should expect a refund in the next 4-6 weeks.

That got me excited…

The second envelope was the new V5 which now shows our van as a PHGV, a revenue weight of 3900kg and a Max. Permissible Mass of 3900kg.

So, for whatever reason, it looks like the DVLA has changed our details based on the old ‘rules’ and have ignored whatever has caused them to not do this change for others on this thread.

Don’t know if it’s just luck of the draw for who does the change at the DVLA or the order that I did things but I’m now happy that we’ll never be overweight (we are around 3750kg absolutely fully loaded) and we’ll pay less road tax. And… as it still looks like a Fiat Ducato I hope we still get Class 2 on the French toll roads!

Hope this helps anyone else who’s thinking of doing the same.

P.S. Just need some Angles Morte stickers now JIC

P.P.S. Anything else I need to think about for driving it now it’s a PHGV at 3900kg either in this country or abroad?

You mean, apart from having to pay extra on the ferry fare as it's now over 3500kgs?

 

[Lenny333]

You mean, apart from having to pay extra on the ferry fare as it's now over 3500kgs?

Although it’s more expensive, we tend to use the tunnel so the increased weight shouldn’t affect us… although the bike rack on the back probably will

 

[Orion]

The vehicle category was N1 originally and is still N1 now

Even stranger then given the DVLA recent insistence that N1 always remains N1 for RFL purposes! Maybe they’ve had a serious rethink - or had pressure applied ‘from above’? Either way, it’s a result for you and hope for others.

Re. The toll tag. Just apply for the Fulli using a car registration if you don’t want to use the van, they switch it in the app and you’ll be Classe 2.

 

[Orion]

You mean, apart from having to pay extra on the ferry fare as it's now over 3500kgs?

Is that a thing? Every ferry I’ve gone on has length and height fare differences for mohos, never had it based on weight.

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[Lenny333]

Even stranger then given the DVLA recent insistence that N1 always remains N1 for RFL purposes! Maybe they’ve had a serious rethink - or had pressure applied ‘from above’? Either way, it’s a result for you and hope for others.

Re. The toll tag. Just apply for the Fulli using a car registration if you don’t want to use the van, they switch it in the app and you’ll be Classe 2.

Very strange

I’ve checked the DVLA website using the 11 digit reference number on the V5 and sure enough, the tax is showing as £165 so looks like it’s now at the PHGV rate.

I’ll await the refund and update here (if I remember!)

 

[Sue and Rick]

You mean, apart from having to pay extra on the ferry fare as it's now over 3500kgs?

and travel slower on the motorways / dual carriageway abroad

 

[Lenny333]

and travel slower on the motorways / dual carriageway

Here or abroad?… I thought that in the UK it’s the same speed limits as a car as it’s now classed as a Motor Caravan / used as a Motor Caravan.

Not as sure about the continent so could you expand a bit please?

 

[Lenny HB]

Here or abroad?… I thought that in the UK it’s the same speed limits as a car as it’s now classed as a Motor Caravan / used as a Motor Caravan.

Only if the unladen weight is 3050kg or less.

 

[Lenny333]

Only if the unladen weight is 3050kg or less.

Lenny HB

The Mass is Service on the V5 is shown as 2235kg (as we know, unladen weights are seldom given) and the converter states 450kg as the payload so between these 2, I’m assuming that the unladen weight is 3050kg or less… even though I haven’t actually weighed it empty, I would doubt any Police will either (but I may be wrong )

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[Sue and Rick]

Here or abroad?… I thought that in the UK it’s the same speed limits as a car as it’s now classed as a Motor Caravan / used as a Motor Caravan.

Not as sure about the continent so could you expand a bit please?

look at this, it explains further for abroad too

French Speed Limits if over 3.5t

Since the change last June I’d be grateful if someone can confirm the correct speed limits on the various classes of road. Sure it’s been done to death but I can’t find all the info Some is easy ie Autoroutes 110kph But RN dual carriageways signposted 110kph ? 3 lane roads when 2 lanes are for...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Barbie and Ken]

Lets hope so?

They did it with diesel cars, some still only pay £20

And sum pay nothing

 

[CAB96]

Lenny HB

The Mass is Service on the V5 is shown as 2235kg (as we know, unladen weights are seldom given) and the converter states 450kg as the payload so between these 2, I’m assuming that the unladen weight is 3050kg or less… even though I haven’t actually weighed it empty, I would doubt any Police will either (but I may be wrong )

You're fine for the UK at passenger car speeds.

Can't speak for abroad.

 

[WESTY66]

Only if the unladen weight is 3050kg or less.

How would the authorities know that if it isn’t on the V5 and you have no CoC?
Do the authorities even have access to your CoC?

 

[Lenny HB]

How would the authorities know that if it isn’t on the V5 and you have no CoC?
Do the authorities even have access to your CoC?

Not on the CoC either.

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[WESTY66]

Not on the CoC either.

So how do they determine whether you can go car speed or truck speed??

 

[Lenny HB]

So how do they determine whether you can go car speed or truck speed??

Up to you to prove it.

 

[The Artilleryman]

In my case, it's the (cart tracks) sorry roads are that bad that I wouldn't be going fast enough to worry about the speed limit. And if I've left Lincolnshire, I'll be towing the box trailer so limited anyway.

 

[Fat Albert]

How would the authorities know that if it isn’t on the V5 and you have no CoC?
Do the authorities even have access to your CoC?

Not on the CoC either.

Just checked my CoC for my Chausson so Trigano. The mass in running order weight is stated twice as Mass in Running order and actual mass of vehicle. When the vehicle was registered, the DVLA had the original CoC because it's been stamped on the day of registration. So perhaps some manufactures are more diligent that others regarding CoC paperwork. Also that figure is on the V5C.

 

[Lenny HB]

Just checked my CoC for my Chausson so Trigano. The mass in running order weight is stated twice as Mass in Running order and actual mass of vehicle. When the vehicle was registered, the DVLA had the original CoC because it's been stamped on the day of registration. So perhaps some manufactures are more diligent that others regarding CoC paperwork. Also that figure is on the V5C.

But neither of those are the unladen weight.

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