Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation (26 Viewers)

[Jonno1103]

Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation.

When up plating from 3500kg RFL will continue to be £365 pa. IT IS NOT being reduced to the PHG rate of £165.

Secondly, the DVLA are no longer changing the V5c to illustrate your new weight. The MTPLM will remain at 3500kg. This means that if your motorhome is detected on road installed Weight In Motion Sensors - WIMS, you WILL be classed as overweight. Currently there is no plan to prosecute although you will receive a letter advising you of weight limits etc.

This legislation is causing a great deal of harm to companies such as SvTech who are currently in constant communication with HMG and it is fully expected to be escalated and discussed on the floor in the House of Commons.

However, one of the reasons why in the short term this is in force is due to the EU's 4th directive and once in place will mean that RFL will illustrate the new entry weight limit. Vans & Moho's will need to be over 4250kg in order to qualify for the reduced RFL.

The Fourth Directive...

The EU will ratify this and it will be in force from January 2025. This means that drivers with post 1997 licences can drive upto 4250kg whether EV or ICE powered. Licences will become digital and some medicals will be self assessment.

Current information from Downing Street strongly suggests that the U.K.'s original stance was to also adopt this following an announcement during the March 2025 budget. The U.K. has historically adopted the first 3 directives and will also adopt No4.

There is now however a strong suggestion that this will be announced during the late October budget and will be in place for newly registered motohomes from March 1st.

This is of course still to be confirmed.

 

[M-J]

The EU ratified the change to 4250kg on a B licence but left it to individual countries to implement it if they want to. So far I think only Spain is going ahead.
If enough countries change hopefully the UK will follow but no guarantee.

Fingers crossed, too many motorhomes have to be crossed off my list due to weight.

 

[Fontie]

My revenue weight was uprated from 3500 to 4500 could I downplate to 4250 so not have to have the medical when I reach 70 and keep the lower tax.

 

[gus-lopez]

Showing 3500 is not a problem according to SV Tech

It is if you are abroad.

but left it to individual countries to implement it if they want to.

No they all have until 2028 to introduce it. Driving licence changes to digital & QR codes they have until 2030

So far I think only Spain is going ahead.

Spain it is from 1st January next year.

 

[MichaelT]

It is if you are abroad.

If it's legal in your home country then it will be legal abroad?

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[Fragle]

It is if you are abroad.

No they all have until 2028 to introduce it. Driving licence changes to digital & QR codes they have until 2030

Spain it is from 1st January next year.

As MichaelT says. If legal here should be no problem.

Someone on the thread I put up mentioned getting them to change it to the revenue weight but I would now not take the chance as they are likely to change the revenue as well.

I'll leave well alone

 

[PaulW2]

As MichaelT says. If legal here should be no problem.

Someone on the thread I put up mentioned getting them to change it to the revenue weight but I would now not take the chance as they are likely to change the revenue as well.

I'll leave well alone

I guess the issue here may be providing evidence?

Case 1: V5 says maximum 3,500, a legitimate plate has been added to the vehicle to say it's 4,000.
Case 2: V5 says maximum 3,500, a non-legitimate plate, but identical-looking to Case 1, has been added to say it's 4,000.

You get stopped in Europe and asked to prove your maximum vehicle weight. How do you do it?

 

[MichaelT]

I guess the issue here may be providing evidence?

Case 1: V5 says maximum 3,500, a legitimate plate has been added to the vehicle to say it's 4,000.
Case 2: V5 says maximum 3,500, a non-legitimate plate, but identical-looking to Case 1, has been added to say it's 4,000.

You get stopped in Europe and asked to prove your maximum vehicle weight. How do you do it?

Certificate from SV Tech.

 

[PaulW2]

Certificate from SV Tech.

"And why have your own authorities not recognised this unofficial document?"

 

[rod_vw]

That's incorrect as I up-plated from 3300 to 3850, as I insisted that the DVLA changed the MTPLM on my V5 to 3850 and they did.

View attachment 959838

And they did on mine without being asked.
Mass in service an Revenue weight bother remain unchanged.

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[PaulW2]

I'm not sure what is going on, but when I previously increased a motorhome's weight from 5,200 to 5,500 kg the V5 was updated, the DVLA site shows the upgraded weight and therefore everything is in order.

The letter from a private company (SVTech, in my case) and the plate I've stuck inside the engine compartment were not definitive and I can't see how anyone would, or should, accept that they are.

 

[Brize]

So if I understand the OP's information, if you up-plate to over 3500kg the DVLA will not change your V5, but just send you a nice little letter saying it's OK. .

That may be fine in the UK, but what would a French or Italian policeman say when you are stopped for a snap weighing and you are over your V5 weight? Can't see them being happy with a little letter that anyone could forge.

 

[sedge]

Having passed my test yonks ago I obviously had my grandmother rights to drive C1. Trouble is, since I have Type 1 diabetes from before I even took driving lessons, I use insulin constantly and about 20 years(?) ago the UK Gov decided to remove the C1 from anyone like me's driving licence. Didn't bother me - we had 3500 litre mohos which I'd never wanted to drive anyway - but OH still has his C1 so when we had our van stolen in April, he decided to replace it with a heavier one. Fine, he's still got to drive it. I cannot, legally, currently.

So - if and when the Gov decide whatever they decide - how on earth do they cater for the insulin users who DO now legally drive sub 3500 mohos?

 

[rod_vw]

So if I understand the OP's information, if you up-plate to over 3500kg the DVLA will not change your V5, but just send you a nice little letter saying it's OK. .

That may be fine in the UK, but what would a French or Italian policeman say when you are stopped for a snap weighing and you are over your V5 weight? Can't see them being happy with a little letter that anyone could forge.

No, you receive a new V5C with the new weights printed (if they manage to get it right!). That's how mine was processed anyway.

 

[MichaelT]

"And why have your own authorities not recognised this unofficial document?"

They have to uprate my revenue and max permissable weight

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[PaulW2]

Having passed my test yonks ago I obviously had my grandmother rights to drive C1. Trouble is, since I have Type 1 diabetes from before I even took driving lessons, I use insulin constantly and about 20 years(?) ago the UK Gov decided to remove the C1 from anyone like me's driving licence. Didn't bother me - we had 3500 litre mohos which I'd never wanted to drive anyway - but OH still has his C1 so when we had our van stolen in April, he decided to replace it with a heavier one. Fine, he's still got to drive it. I cannot, legally, currently.

So - if and when the Gov decide whatever they decide - how on earth do they cater for the insulin users who DO now legally drive sub 3500 mohos?

The simple answer, and as I understand it the one adopted in the EU, would be in effect to say "a person who has a B licence can henceforth drive motorhomes up to a weight of 4,250 kg and other vehicles up to a weight of 3,500 kg"

This would mean that you can drive a 4,250 kg vehicle.

It would therefore be easy for the govt to cater for this. Whether they will opt for such a straightforward answer remains to be seen I think.

 

[PaulW2]

They have to uprate my revenue and max permissable weight

We're cross purposes I think. I was responding to a point about them not changing V5 documents, and also not changing max weight, earlier in the thread.

If they were to fail to do this, then it is difficult to see how one would persuade foreign authorities that one is legal.

 

[VXman]

On the really negative side of things, if adopted here the. That means I will no longer have the excuse of not having a relevant licence I.e D1 when telling my son that he can’t drive the van

OMG! Same here. Earlier this year my son surprised me with a request for him and his GF to borrow the motorhome. I panicked inside thinking 'how do I get out of this' and then remembered the weight. Phew!

 

[Brize]

So if I understand the OP's information, if you up-plate to over 3500kg the DVLA will not change your V5, but just send you a nice little letter saying it's OK. .

That may be fine in the UK, but what would a French or Italian policeman say when you are stopped for a snap weighing and you are over your V5 weight? Can't see them being happy with a little letter that anyone could forge.

No, you receive a new V5C with the new weights printed (if they manage to get it right!). That's how mine was processed anyway.

That may be the way they do it now, and you have benefited from it.

But the OP said:
"Secondly, the DVLA are no longer changing the V5c to illustrate your new weight. The MTPLM will remain at 3500kg. This means that if your motorhome is detected on road installed Weight In Motion Sensors - WIMS, you WILL be classed as overweight. Currently there is no plan to prosecute although you will receive a letter advising you of weight limits etc."

So my point still stands. A DVLA letter is not going to cut ice with a French policeman if your V5 shows 3500, and you are 3800!

 

[gus-lopez]

If it's legal in your home country then it will be legal abroad?

If it does not state the higher weight on the V5 & the vehicle weighs ,say,4000kgs, then how would they believe it was legal.

As MichaelT says. If legal here should be no problem.

yes but with paperwork needed. A frames are "legal" in the UK try it here.

Even with "paperwork" they are illegal.Certificate from SV Tech.

I might as well print it.V5 is only thing that counts

So - if and when the Gov decide whatever they decide - how on earth do they cater for the insulin users who DO now legally drive sub 3500 mohos?

unless they medically strike you out you will automatically be entitled to drive up t 4250kgs.By all accounts in the eu they cannot differentiate between people with medical ailments & others without as it infringes human rights & rights of the free movement directives .

They have to uprate my revenue and max permissable weight

but that is the point.The initial post was stating that they will not be doing it?

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[MichaelT]

If it does not state the higher weight on the V5 & the vehicle weighs ,say,4000kgs, then how would they believe it was legal.

yes but with paperwork needed. A frames are "legal" in the UK try it here.

I might as well print it.V5 is only thing that counts

unless they medically strike you out you will automatically be entitled to drive up t 4250kgs.By all accounts in the eu they cannot differentiate between people with medical ailments & others without as it infringes human rights & rights of the free movement directives .

but that is the point.The initial post was stating that they will not be doing it?

I think max weight will go up but not revenue weight so you still pay higher tax.

 

[gus-lopez]

"Secondly, the DVLA are no longer changing the V5c to illustrate your new weight. The MTPLM will remain at 3500kg. This means that if your motorhome is detected on road installed Weight In Motion Sensors - WIMS, you WILL be classed as overweight. Currently there is no plan to prosecute although you will receive a letter advising you of weight limits etc."

A later post seemed to say it was revenue weight staying same but MTPLM , which is what is needed for abroad, that would be changed¿

 

[MichaelT]

A later post seemed to say it was revenue weight staying same but MTPLM , which is what is needed for abroad, that would be changed¿

That's what I said

 

[IRHP]

It may be that if the continental EU change from 3500 to 4250 (Due to EV weights) then they will probably change road and speed limits for. 3500 to 4350 also along with standard licences.

3500 kg has no relevance to speed limits in the UK. Its based around 3050kg unladen weight.

 

[IRHP]

My revenue weight was uprated from 3500 to 4500 could I downplate to 4250 so not have to have the medical when I reach 70 and keep the lower tax.

That a great question and one I am thinking about. I have a mtplm of 4350kg. If I downplayed to 4250kg to allow youngsters to drive it would I still pay £165 a year road tax?

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[KASPAR]

I applied to DVLA to update from 3500Kg to 4200Kg on 12 September. I requested
'Weight Change - [Y] Revenue and F.1: Max. Permissible Mass
Taxation Class Change - [X]: Taxation Class
The Tax Class will now change to Private Heavy Goods (TC10), duly completed form V70'
I had cause to check the Emission Zone charge for Bath earlier today and used the https://pay.drive-clean-air-zone.service where it came back as no charge. The CAZ vehicle type shows as Heavy Goods Vehicle.

I then checked the gov.uk vehicle enquiry service to learn:
Revenue weight 4200 kg - meaning it has been upplated as my request.
Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 2 October 2024 - so it should arrive soon, then I can use the number to check the VED rate.

I did this myself and used my Professional Registration (CEng FIMechE) in my correspondence. Whether that had any bearing I don't know. For the effort of a phone call, a letter and a few £ in recorded delivery postage, job done, and a happy camper. Under 3 weeks.