Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation

[Jonno1103]

Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation.

When up plating from 3500kg RFL will continue to be £365 pa. IT IS NOT being reduced to the PHG rate of £165.

Secondly, the DVLA are no longer changing the V5c to illustrate your new weight. The MTPLM will remain at 3500kg. This means that if your motorhome is detected on road installed Weight In Motion Sensors - WIMS, you WILL be classed as overweight. Currently there is no plan to prosecute although you will receive a letter advising you of weight limits etc.

This legislation is causing a great deal of harm to companies such as SvTech who are currently in constant communication with HMG and it is fully expected to be escalated and discussed on the floor in the House of Commons.

However, one of the reasons why in the short term this is in force is due to the EU's 4th directive and once in place will mean that RFL will illustrate the new entry weight limit. Vans & Moho's will need to be over 4250kg in order to qualify for the reduced RFL.

The Fourth Directive...

The EU will ratify this and it will be in force from January 2025. This means that drivers with post 1997 licences can drive upto 4250kg whether EV or ICE powered. Licences will become digital and some medicals will be self assessment.

Current information from Downing Street strongly suggests that the U.K.'s original stance was to also adopt this following an announcement during the March 2025 budget. The U.K. has historically adopted the first 3 directives and will also adopt No4.

There is now however a strong suggestion that this will be announced during the late October budget and will be in place for newly registered motohomes from March 1st.

This is of course still to be confirmed.

 

[The Wino]

The whole thing is a dogs dinner of old and new mixed together. Wouldn't it's be a lot more sensible to just up the limit for a standard license, VED, speed limits etc to 4250 kg or whatever the new limit is.

 

[FrankNicklin]

Will this work in reverse where your vehicle has been up plated to attract the £165 VED then is downplated again to 3500kg after the changes, will the £165 VED remain. I bet it doesn't.

 

[FrankNicklin]

Deleted

 

[DuxDeluxe]

The whole thing is a dogs dinner of old and new mixed together. Wouldn't it's be a lot more sensible to just up the limit for a standard license, VED, speed limits etc to 4250 kg or whatever the new limit is.

Dream on……. that is far too sensible and far too easy to do. Makes total sense though

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[DDJC]

This really amazes me. There WAS a consultation starting on the 5 August 2022. I replied to it! And then I spent hours last year writing to MPs the Dept of Transport, DVLA, DVSA and anyone who was remotely connected, trying to work out what was the conclusion

The conclusion seemed to be that the Department had no plans to increase the weight limit of Class B or B1.

And after reading everything that has been said so far, I am still none the wiser. Has anyone got a precis of what is actually going on, or doesn't the department know either?

The German report about increasing from 3500 to 4250 sounds eminently sensible. But if our DVLA now won't change the V5, then what use is it? SV Tech must be doing their crunch.

 

[DDJC]

Duplicate

 

[DDJC]

Duplicate duplicate!

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Duplicate duplicate!

Got the Gina M bug, I see…….

 

[PaulW2]

Duplicate duplicate!

Sound like a randy Dalek!

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[poppycamper]

Motor Caravan is M1 SP.

Wish it that simple Lenny HB ..
AFAIA Yes M1 if registered from brand new as motorhome..... however if converted from a pre registered panel van which was N1 and then converted and changed through DVLA to motorhome it will stay N1 and motorhome.. And cannot be changed from N1..

 

[Fragle]

Can someone say where the M1 N1 is on the V5. I can't see it on mine.

All I see is Motorcaravan and Private HGV

 

[Fragle]

Edit. it's catching

 

[rod_vw]

Can someone say where the M1 N1 is on the V5. I can't see it on mine.

All I see is Motorcaravan and Private HGV

In the Vehicle Category, item J on mine.

 

[KASPAR]

Could you update if you get the lesser rate for RFL ?

Cheers

As my initial post:

'Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 2 October 2024 - so it should arrive soon, then I can use the number to check the VED rate.'
So, yes I'll update. No loss in reality as currently pay the higher VED. If higher will balance if it is more than my daily that is VED exempt due to my blue badge

Hopefully it will arrive earlier than the shower duckboard that was supposed to be here this evening, but might not arrive and I can claim my money back from that bastion of ethical business, Amazon

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[FrankNicklin]

Sound like a randy Dalek!

I posted a duplicate, seem to be getting a popup showing new posts now which made me think I had not posted my post hence the duplication. Something has changed on the forum I think.

 

[FrankNicklin]

Posting issue appears to now be fixed.

 

[Fragle]

In the Vehicle Category, item J on mine.

Strange. Mine does not have anything next to vehicle category.

 

[fishplug]

ah!

Well, I'm glad I saw this before ordering my uprated suspension parts then....

Was mainly doing so in order to get the lower tax rate but no point now.

My subscription here has already saved me money!

*edit - I also get a pop up after hitting reply now. Closed it and saw my reply had already been posted. Something squirrelly in some forum update no doubt. One for Jim to have a look at I guess....

 

[Barclaybasher]

Rear air is worth it anyway

For stability, cornering and passing trucks

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[Dorset Diver]

This really amazes me. There WAS a consultation starting on the 5 August 2022. I replied to it! And then I spent hours last year writing to MPs the Dept of Transport, DVLA, DVSA and anyone who was remotely connected, trying to work out what was the conclusion

The conclusion seemed to be that the Department had no plans to increase the weight limit of Class B or B1.

And after reading everything that has been said so far, I am still none the wiser. Has anyone got a precis of what is actually going on, or doesn't the department know either?

The German report about increasing from 3500 to 4250 sounds eminently sensible. But if our DVLA now won't change the V5, then what use is it? SV Tech must be doing their crunch.

Seconded. I can't make head nor tail of it.

Our van was originally registered at 4250 kg; I uprated it to 4500 kg. If I down rate it now to 4250 kg can my wife who does not have a C1, now drive it? I will rephrase that. Would a person without a C1 but with the necessary skills, be able to legally drive it on a standard car licence?

 

[FrankNicklin]

Seconded. I can't make head nor tail of it.

Our van was originally registered at 4250 kg; I uprated it to 4500 kg. If I down rate it now to 4250 kg can my wife who does not have a C1, now drive it? I will rephrase that. Would a person without a C1 but with the necessary skills, be able to legally drive it on a standard car licence?

My understanding is yes as they are raising the B-B1 threshold to 4250kg to match EV vans where you can drive up to 4250KG without a C1. But of course I'll stand corrected if not the case.

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

My understanding is yes as they are raising the B-B1 threshold to 4250kg to match EV vans where you can drive up to 4250KG without a C1. But of course I'll stand corrected if not the case.

Whilst EU states appear to be going that way, is that not yet to be confirmed in the UK?

 

[FrankNicklin]

Whilst EU states appear to be going that way, is that not yet to be confirmed in the UK?

For sure. We have adopted the other classifications so no reason to think this one won't be but yes will have to wait and see.

 

[Speve]

Strange. Mine does not have anything next to vehicle category.

Mine is just Motor Caravan and nothing against item J vehicle category

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[WESTY66]

Seconded. I can't make head nor tail of it.

Our van was originally registered at 4250 kg; I uprated it to 4500 kg. If I down rate it now to 4250 kg can my wife who does not have a C1, now drive it? I will rephrase that. Would a person without a C1 but with the necessary skills, be able to legally drive it on a standard car licence?

I wonder if it’d be worth down rating before it comes into force (if it ever does) as your tax would be still £165 also there is the slightest possibility when (if) it comes in, that all <4250kg would be taxed at the higher rate!
It’s all speculation atm but it would fill the coffers a little bit judging by all the 3500-4250 vans on the road atm

 

[fishplug]

Rear air is worth it anyway

For stability, cornering and passing trucks

That's the bit I ordered already!

 

[VXman]

Rather than start another thread, hopefully someone can help here - very interested in a 3500kg van that is known to have a poor payload - so want to increase that.
If I applied to have it done today, does anyone have any intuition as to roughly when it would be done?

I've tried ringing SV Tech but no luck, and there website is undergoing some work I think.

Thanks in advance

You could try Van Weight Engineering. I heard recently that they were unable to do work at the moment but there is no sign of this on their website or fakebook page. Might be worth contacting them.

How long takes depends on how much work needs doing, how bust they are and how long the DVLA take. So difficult to say. Mine took about 3 weeks i think.

Van Weight Engineering

Need to change the weight of your vehicle? You're in the right place.

www.vanweightengineering.com

 

[VXman]

Seconded. I can't make head nor tail of it.

Our van was originally registered at 4250 kg; I uprated it to 4500 kg. If I down rate it now to 4250 kg can my wife who does not have a C1, now drive it? I will rephrase that. Would a person without a C1 but with the necessary skills, be able to legally drive it on a standard car licence?

As far as i can see this is all 'speculation'. Nothing is set in stone yet. I've yet to read anything 'official' about this. The OP states that if you get the weight uprated NOW you will have to pay the 3500kg rate however, the DVLA website still says £165 for PHGV.

I'd like to see some links to official government info before I believe any of this.

Vehicle tax rates

Tables showing the rates for vehicle tax for different types of vehicle.

www.gov.uk

 

[Puddleduck]

Will wait until it is official but if it is confirmed then good news for when we want to buy another motorhome.

Martin is 70 next year and didn't want to do the C1. I no longer drive due to medical issues. We would need a decent payload for the equipment we now need to carry.

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[DDJC]

This is going to sound weird to some of you, but I am not that interested in the Road Tax aspect. We are already being robbed, so a little more doesn't bother me.

My chief interest is that my bus is a 3500 chassis, but we upped the tyres to 225 and installed semi air on the rear axle, which is all that is needed to up-plate to 3850.
The only thing that is stopping me doing it, is that Mrs DDJC has a 1999 licence so hasn't C1. Currently we can both drive it, if up-plated, its only me.

So for me, the more interesting things by far is:

that the Germans are increasing their Cat B MTPM weight from 3500 to 4250, and that the EU is likely to follow suit? (And how out of step would the UK look, if they stubbornly didn't do the same?)
and
what the logic is of NOT updating the V5 where there is an up-plated MTPM? Without a new V5, Monsieur le Gendarme or Signor agente di polizia, is still gonna slap a fine on you, or make you offload your vintage anvil collection, or both.