Camper NE go bust

[CazPaul]

I was looking at buying a used Arto about 18 months ago from Camper NE, so glad I didn't, by the time I had time to view it had sold.

 

[chaser]

is there anything to stop anyone doing this?

 

[Silver-Fox]

The sad thing is, as i understand it, no matter how much the owners paid... the vans do belong to the finance company.

If the vans were owned by the finance company before they were sold; no amount of proving you bought it can change that, they belong to the finance company and they can take your van and just point you to back toward the person who defrauded you.

Im struggling to follow this.
I understand companies have loans set against their stock.

What I don't get is if you have paid in full for the van from the dealer with a full receipt etc how the finance company hold the title.

Does this mean if you buy from a dealer you need to do an HPI check then make sure the finance is paid off?

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

It would be interesting to know when this/these vehicles were financed. If the agreement is dated AFTER the retail buyer bought and paid for the van then finance companies problem

You cant just go and raise finance willy nilly on any vehicle.

Peter

 

[Ranger]

Does this mean if you buy from a dealer you need to do an HPI check then make sure the finance is paid off?

We asked the dealer on payment day and it showed as on finance, took three or four days for the dealer to send us a copy of it showing finance clear. Trust no one.

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[Silver-Fox]

The sad thing is people buy from a dealer thinking all will be good and trust them.

Yet shy away from a private sale as it might be iffy.

 

[MikeD]

We asked the dealer on payment day and it showed as on finance, took three or four days for the dealer to send us a copy of it showing finance clear. Trust no one.

We bought our last two cars from VW and both showed as "financed" on HPI check. Never appreciated what a problem that could have caused till now.

 

[Silver-Fox]

We asked the dealer on payment day and it showed as on finance, took three or four days for the dealer to send us a copy of it showing finance clear. Trust no one.

So your van could have been reposed in those three or four days?
Thats scary stuff in my eyes.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

What I don't get is if you have paid in full for the van from the dealer with a full receipt etc how the finance company hold the title.

It's the same as if you buy a stolen item. The receipt itself may show you gave someone a payment, but does the receipt actually show the ownership is yours, if they were not free to sell it? In a way, albeit perhaps unknowingly, you are handling stolen goods.

I dunno it's almost as if you need to buy on finance yourself, so that the company you are paying money to, will have undertaken their diligence to see there is true title to the vehicle.

 

[Janine]

A friend of mine was scammed when trying to buy a van on Ebay. Seems he would be no safer buying from a dealer. And he's a police officer!

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[Ranger]

We bought our last two cars from VW and both showed as "financed" on HPI check. Never appreciated what a problem that could have caused till now.

So your van could have been reposed in those three or four days?
Thats scary stuff in my eyes.

In theory yes so it was nice to get the HPI copy.

 

[Kelsae2]

Last time we were at the new premises there were not that many vans in the yard. Also maybe explains why they moved to smaller premises.

 

[Langtoftlad]

How can a dealer, franchised by a manufacturer, sell you a vehicle that they have no title to?
If a finance company is actually the owner, then a dealer is acting as a broker?
Are we getting to a situation when we need a solicitor to act for the purchaser?

In my case I bought a Wildax, I paid Wildax but have no absolute knowledge or guarantee that Wildax paid the Citroen dealer, who paid Citroen who delivered the van... it's all on trust.

 

[34127]

If you buy on finance then does that give you protection and mean you are not at risk.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

You are correct,a regular stock-count is SUPPOSED to happen but outsourced ( usually) to 3rd party bean-counters

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[gus-lopez]

If you buy on finance then does that give you protection and mean you are not at risk.

It should do.

 

[Janine]

It should do.

But what happens if you find out after you have paid it off? Can they still claim the van back?

 

[old-mo]

Bloody scary stuff reading through this thread...

Would it help the purchaser to take out a few thousand pounds on HP....
Even though the purchaser could afford to buy outright..????

 

[34127]

Should there be some request on behalf of forum members to a relevant authority, perhaps action fraud or trading standards, for a comment and advice on how to protect from this happening. @Jim

 

[tonka]

Would it help the purchaser to take out a few thousand pounds on HP....
Even though the purchaser could afford to buy outright..????

It is an option many are now looking at Mo. Often a subject over on faceFace groups, it's also being used as a sort of insurance policy that if you get a duff motorhome it's easier to reject a vehicle going via the finance company.

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[old-mo]

Just got me thinking if you went down the route of a bit of HP..... surely the HP company would do a check to see it was all in the clear finance wise and would throw up any abnormality`s..

And if later it was not cosher it would be at the loss of who gave you HP...

 

[Jim]

If you buy on finance then does that give you protection and mean you are not at risk.

As I understand the law..If you buy a van from someone who doesn't own it, no matter how you finance the purchase, the vehicle will always belong to the rightful owner. You must check to see that the person selling is the owner.

If someone puts finance on your vehicle after you bought it then their claim over the vehicle has to be void. The finance house should have done their due diligence.

This from The Motorhome Buyers Guide written 12 years ago, the advice as current as ever

Before you part with any money

Buying a used Motorhome can be a risky business. Each year too many people buy second hand motorhomes that have had their mileage reduced or are incorrectly described. They buy stolen motorhomes and motorhomes still on finance. In some cases the buyer will end up thousands of pounds out of pocket or even worse, putting their lives in danger.

Check The Motorhome Is Not Subject To Out-Standing Finance?
I read somewhere that 24 out of every 100 vehicles checked by HPI are subject to outstanding finance! This represents a massive risk. You might buy in good faith, but if the vehicle is owned by a finance company then you will never own it no matter how much you paid. A HPI check will tell you if there is any outstanding finance on the vehicle. It is not just private sellers that might sell a vehicle that is still financed. Traders have been known to ‘forget’ to pay off outstanding finance.

 

[dealornodeal]

I agree with Mo. Currently thinking of changing the van and would put £5k on finance to help with any warranty claims and in the hope of preventing 'clawback' of the van. Incidentally I did HPI check on current van even though it was new, it revealed stocking finance that was removed over a couple of days. But as can be see in previous posts if they had not removed this and I had paid in full where would I go?

 

[Theonlysue]

Hpi chevks only cover up to £30,000.
Insufficient for some motorhomes and cars. Its been that amount for decades and hasn't kept up with market values.

 

[Jim]

Hpi chevks only cover up to £30,000.
Insufficient for some motorhomes and cars. Its been that amount for decades and hasn't kept up with market values.

Yes thats their guarantee, but they will still find finance on a vehicle worth a lot more than 30k

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[Silver-Fox]

Yes thats their guarantee, but they will still find finance on a vehicle worth a lot more than 30k

Exactly, your not doing it to get a payout but to discover if there is finance on the vehicle.

 

[Langtoftlad]

How do you prove that the Hymer you are buying from the Hymer branded dealership is actually theirs to sell ?

 

[gus-lopez]

But what happens if you find out after you have paid it off? Can they still claim the van back?

That would then be the problem of the company who financed your purchase not having done there due diligence correctly & finding it.

In that case I'm sure you'll know all about their court case versus HMRC back in 2014 when HMRC attempted to retrieve £700,000 in VAT from TVM.

The company was inputing a zero vat rate on their new van sales by saying that an access handle fitted next to the hab door, (which TVM fitted to their vans), did in fact constitute 'disabled equipment' and therefore in TVMs opinion the vans had been fully converted for disabled mobility and were entitled to the disabled zero vat rate.

They won on a technicality but you've got to ask the question whether they would still be trading with a £700,000 tax bill, plus fines and expenses.

The following 'HMRC vs TVM' download proves that a £100 door handle can save you thousands of pounds.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0HlehqzzymSLGmMU4eJByf

It was a bit more than a 'technicality' when they had multiple vat visits from different inspectors over the years ,none of whom even raised the question.

 

[M-J]

I can’t believe anyone would buy any used vehicle without carrying out some sort of HPi check or at least getting one from the dealer.

 

[chaser]

I can’t believe anyone would buy any used vehicle without carrying out some sort of HPi check or at least getting one from the dealer.

no use in the ops case , it was taken out after he had paid for it when it would have been clear.

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