Beating the 90/180 day Schengen rule

[62272]

Why do you think you can’t attach your 90 days to the visa 180 days? I haven’t seen that anywhere. You get 90 visa free days in each 180 day period. I’ve seen nothing which says how that can be used in addition to a visa.

Although others have given the answer here, from a logical view point, your UK Schengen 90/180 period starts with your UK passport getting stamped on entry to a Schengen country. If you are simply tagging on your UK allowance onto your French Visa then there would have been no stamp on your UK passport to start your allowance clock?

The visa centre is clear that you must leave Schengen on your visa (having entered on the visa), and then you can use your UK passport to re-enter under your UK passport Schengen allowance. I am sure I read it in the EU or French visa site bumf, which others have confirmed on this thread.

However, if you feel you have the right to do otherwise, feel free, and let us know how you get on?

 

[Dwarfland]

The France visa is multi entry. TLS have said you can go from France to neighbouring Schengen countries. However, that does then decrement your 90 days. So how does that fit with the theory that you must exit back to U.K. then start the 90 day clock again? It makes no sense. It’s also irrelevant-as long as you transit open borders they have no idea you ever left France. That fact that the border official told me my 90 days is unused though I’d spent 2 months out of France confirms that…

 

[62272]

D, was the purpose of your query that you would exhaust your French visa and then tag on your period allowed under the UK Schengen allowance? Or that you would leave France whilst travelling on your French Visa period into another Schengen state (EU for example) and stay beyond 90/180 days, on the assumption that the bit over the 90 days (if ever questioned) was part of your UK allowance and not the French visa permitted period, without leaving Schengen and re-entering on your UK stamped passport?

You are right, for most of the EU Schengen area there are no border checks and it would be on your honesty and cognisance that you kept within the rules. It is clearly open to abuse through ignorance or design.

I think given you have entered France on a long stay French visa, and the excursions into other Schengen states were on that Visa the question should be asked of the French consulate. Could it be possible that you present yourself to a border control within the EU (having travelled through France) and declare that you wish to enter under your UK Schengen allowance? This does not seem to be answered anywhere. I suspect you would need to pose the question to the UK appropriate authority (border control?).

 

[Dwarfland]

You’re overthinking the whole thing. I spent 4 months in Europe on a 6 month visa. I entered and exited through France. No one knows where else I went. Why on earth would I ‘present myself’ at a border? No one cares, believe me.

For anyone who wants to spend more than 90 days in EU, get a France visa. I’ve done it and there were no problems.

For everyone obsessed by rules and ‘what-iffery’ don’t get a visa. Stick to the 90 days or stay in U.K. Easy!

 

[jumar]

You’re overthinking the whole thing. I spent 4 months in Europe on a 6 month visa. I entered and exited through France. No one knows where else I went. Why on earth would I ‘present myself’ at a border? No one cares, believe me.

For anyone who wants to spend more than 90 days in EU, get a France visa. I’ve done it and there were no problems.

For everyone obsessed by rules and ‘what-iffery’ don’t get a visa. Stick to the 90 days or stay in U.K. Easy!

FINALLY I've got to grips with what you are saying, what you have done and how you come to manage it...Why is all this of so much interest to me being a Spanish resident..well basically we have friends who would like to extend their 90 day allowance as per the Withdrawal agreement, our friends are are Neighbours who have apartments adjoining ours here in Spain...they invested big sums of money to buy and enjoy there second homes...many are here to play golf...Schengen restrictions cause them problems, they cannot take their apartment outside Schengen as motorhome owners can.

Part of the Withdrawal Agreement enabled UK residents to travel to Schengen Zone for a maximum of 90 days in a 180 period...this is a Schengen Waver....so UK residents can travel visa free, no application or fees involved.
For other non Schengen visitors (Third country citizens)...for example USA, China etc they are required to obtain a Shengen Zone or other country Visa to enable them to come.....this visa would enable them to travel freely crossing Schengen Borders just like you did.
Having read this thread over and over I now can see that, an error could have been made, by one, or all parties involved when the Visa application was made,and subsequently issued..I remember reading some time back that similar applications had failed during the Visa process...

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jongood]

You’re overthinking the whole thing. I spent 4 months in Europe on a 6 month visa. I entered and exited through France. No one knows where else I went. Why on earth would I ‘present myself’ at a border? No one cares, believe me.

For anyone who wants to spend more than 90 days in EU, get a France visa. I’ve done it and there were no problems.

For everyone obsessed by rules and ‘what-iffery’ don’t get a visa. Stick to the 90 days or stay in U.K. Easy!

I think its great to have some firsthand experience. We know others who are also doing it. Personally I'm not currently finding the 90/180 too difficult, its just encouraged us to roam a little further, but its nice to know its there if we were to want it.

 

[62272]

You’re overthinking the whole thing. I spent 4 months in Europe on a 6 month visa. I entered and exited through France. No one knows where else I went. Why on earth would I ‘present myself’ at a border? No one cares, believe me.

For anyone who wants to spend more than 90 days in EU, get a France visa. I’ve done it and there were no problems.

For everyone obsessed by rules and ‘what-iffery’ don’t get a visa. Stick to the 90 days or stay in U.K. Easy!

Out of interest was that a tourist visa? And were you requested to show an address where you would be staying at (proof of accommodation), or a travel itinerary outline?

I suggested this was possible on a French visa last year in a post and many came on here saying it was not possible, and that you had to proove accommodation and have ‘x’ pounds per day proof, blah, blah, blah…

 

[Dwarfland]

Out of interest was that a tourist visa? And were you requested to show an address where you would be staying at (proof of accommodation), or a travel itinerary outline?

I suggested this was possible on a French visa last year in a post and many came on here saying it was not possible, and that you had to proove accommodation and have ‘x’ pounds per day proof, blah, blah, blah…

Yes it’s a long stay visa which covers tourism amongst other things. We had to provide a covering letter detailing our ‘project’ so where we planned to go and how (very approximate and we only mentioned France). In terms of an address- we booked a campsite for the first night and gave that as an address. In the ‘interview’ at the TLS office it became apparent that the address was only for one night. They asked where we’d be for the remainder and we said we didn’t know, that the motorhome was our address. A manager was called and there was some head scratching - it was clear we were the first motorhome travellers to do this. Eventually the manager agreed to submit the application but said she rated our chances of getting the visa no more than 50/50. (TLS only process the paperwork, they don’t make the decision). Anyway we got the visa so clearly the French consul ‘got’ the concept of travelling in a motorhome.

 

[Gellyneck]

...many are here to play golf...Schengen restrictions cause them problems,

I thought I was really bad at golf but it's never taken me over 90 days to complete a round!

 

[Dwarfland]

FINALLY I've got to grips with what you are saying, what you have done and how you come to manage it...Why is all this of so much interest to me being a Spanish resident..well basically we have friends who would like to extend their 90 day allowance as per the Withdrawal agreement, our friends are are Neighbours who have apartments adjoining ours here in Spain...they invested big sums of money to buy and enjoy there second homes...many are here to play golf...Schengen restrictions cause them problems, they cannot take their apartment outside Schengen as motorhome owners can.

Part of the Withdrawal Agreement enabled UK residents to travel to Schengen Zone for a maximum of 90 days in a 180 period...this is a Schengen Waver....so UK residents can travel visa free, no application or fees involved.
For other non Schengen visitors (Third country citizens)...for example USA, China etc they are required to obtain a Shengen Zone or other country Visa to enable them to come.....this visa would enable them to travel freely crossing Schengen Borders just like you did.
Having read this thread over and over I now can see that, an error could have been made, by one, or all parties involved when the Visa application was made,and subsequently issued..I remember reading some time back that similar applications had failed during the Visa process...

My understanding was that Spain issued a similar Long Stay Visa to France (though at a cost of €595 v €99 for France). However, someone earlier in the thread informed that this ‘non lucrative’ visa is not a 6 month tourist visa, it’s a step in the process to residency. I’m not sure if that’s correct as didn’t research that when I saw the price. However, playing Devil’s advocate, what’s to stop your friends getting a France 6 month visa and driving straight to their home in Spain, spending just short of 180 days there, then driving back to a French port and re-entering U.K. that way? As long as you’re within the 180 days, there’s no problem at the French border and how would they know where your friends have been for 6 months? (Cue the people on here who’ll say they’ll have been tracked via their credit cards, their eyes were scanned as they drove through a border camera at 70mph, the Guardia Civil will have been hiding in the bushes at the golf club etc etc )

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jumar]

My understanding was that Spain issued a similar Long Stay Visa to France (though at a cost of €595 v €99 for France). However, someone earlier in the thread informed that this ‘non lucrative’ visa is not a 6 month tourist visa, it’s a step in the process to residency. I’m not sure if that’s correct as didn’t research that when I saw the price. However, playing Devil’s advocate, what’s to stop your friends getting a France 6 month visa and driving straight to their home in Spain, spending just short of 180 days there, then driving back to a French port and re-entering U.K. that way? As long as you’re within the 180 days, there’s no problem at the French border and how would they know where your friends have been for 6 months? (Cue the people on here who’ll say they’ll have been tracked via their credit cards, their eyes were scanned as they drove through a border camera at 70mph, the Guardia Civil will have been hiding in the bushes at the golf club etc etc )

Correct, I was the poster who advised that the NLV was the gateway to residencia in Spain...Fact....check it out .Currently this is active with those folk, who for their own reasons "Missed the Boat"

Secondly our neighbours are UK residents who are not entitled to a Schengen Tourist visa...they were granted a 90/180 visa Waiver....as per the Withdrawal Agreement...had they been residents of another Third Country..US or Other countries, not the UK it would be the route to go.

What you posted earlier stating it's a Grey area and the issuing staff couldn't guarantee the granting of such visa, would now if researched to a greater degree be seen as Black and White..UK residents do not qualify for this visa....because they have a visa waiver, that was granted as part of the WA....hence the 90/180 day...

 

[62272]

Yes it’s a long stay visa which covers tourism amongst other things. We had to provide a covering letter detailing our ‘project’ so where we planned to go and how (very approximate and we only mentioned France). In terms of an address- we booked a campsite for the first night and gave that as an address. In the ‘interview’ at the TLS office it became apparent that the address was only for one night. They asked where we’d be for the remainder and we said we didn’t know, that the motorhome was our address. A manager was called and there was some head scratching - it was clear we were the first motorhome travellers to do this. Eventually the manager agreed to submit the application but said she rated our chances of getting the visa no more than 50/50. (TLS only process the paperwork, they don’t make the decision). Anyway we got the visa so clearly the French consul ‘got’ the concept of travelling in a motorhome.

Thank you for the reply, I will tag this on to the thread that was sceptical about this being a possibility.

Chas

 

[Dwarfland]

Correct, I was the poster who advised that the NLV was the gateway to residencia in Spain...Fact....check it out .Currently this is active with those folk, who for their own reasons "Missed the Boat"

Secondly our neighbours are UK residents who are not untitled to a Schengen Tourist visa...they were granted a 90/180 visa Waiver....as per the Withdrawal Agreement...had they been residents of another Third Country..US or Other countries, not the UK it would be the route to go.

What you posted earlier stating it's a Grey area and the issuing staff couldn't guarantee the granting of such visa, would now if researched to a greater degree be seen as Black and White..UK residents do not qualify for this visa....because they have a visa waiver, that was granted as part of the WA....hence the 90/180 day...

That’s totally incorrect. U.K. residents do qualify for the visa and can apply if they intend to stay longer than 90 days. It’s not a grey area- there are criteria to meet and if you meet them you get the visa. It’s as simple as that. There seems to be a feeling from some on here that EU countries don’t want U.K. travellers visiting their countries and will do all they can to keep them out, limit them to 90 days etc. In my experience, every country I spent time in over the last 4 months is crying out for more U.K. visitors. If anything they see the 90 day rule as detremental to their struggling hospitality industries and I would guess are more likely to bend the rules than rigorously enforce them. At Calais, after spending 130 days in EU I made a point of mentioning the visa. The guy shrugged as if to say ‘I don’t really care’. I’m pretty sure he’d have waived us through without that anyway.
As with any bureaucracy, they have boxes to tick on the visa process. Answer the questions to provide the answers they want and you’ll get the visa, no problem.

 

[Dwarfland]

Thank you for the reply, I will tag this on to the thread that was sceptical about this being a possibility.

Chas

Just read your question again- you do need to prove you have sufficient funds to cover your stay via providing copies of 6 mths bank statements. There is also a € per day figure quoted on some websites but this is based on a ‘normal’ ie non moho traveller. Therefore in your covering letter you need to explain that you won’t need hotels but add in a daily amount for sites. Also if you intend to eat in the van not restaurants, say that. What I would say is you need to be realistic. Also if you say you’re going to wild camp every night and live off €5 a day you probably don’t represent the sort of traveller they’d want. The funding seems to be a key point so you need to get that right.

 

[BreweryDave]

there is a process in Portugal whereby you can stay longer, I took a screenshot of this recent FB post for info.
However, it won’t necessarily be useful ( on its own) to motorhomers who need to transit other countries, but I’ll put it here for info.
What is does demonstrate however is that things are moving in the right direction to allow longer stays

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Dwarfland]

there is a process in Portugal whereby you can stay longer, I took a screenshot of this recent FB post for info.
However, it won’t necessarily be useful ( on its own) to motorhomers who need to transit other countries, but I’ll put it here for info.
What is does demonstrate however is that things are moving in the right direction to allow longer stays

View attachment 651705

Thats useful- but expect a deluge of people on here telling you why it’s not actually possible

What it shows, as per my comment above is that far from trying to keep Brits out it limit their stays, most countries hospitality industries need all the help they can get. Therefore they’ll all start looking for ways around the 90 day rule. I’m also seeing al lot of anecdotal evidence (from Spain especially) of border officials ignoring obvious cases of overstaying. Unless there’s a political shift I can see that continuing.

 

[Al n Val]

Al started a discussion on the regs and how they were interpreted and, apparently, intentionally abused which as you can imagine didn't go down very well. It was an interesting thread and not meant to be 'fun' as some things aren't funny.

This is the thread I started, just to let you all know about my mate Will and the consequences of overstaying the 90 days.

Not strictly speaking a motorhome question but it could well be relevant to some of us

So I have a life long friend who recently retired, he's run a very successful kitchen business all his working life inherited from his father, he is totally business minded btw, its been his total working life from day dot. So last October he went to his favourite town in Spain where he has...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

So far. and it’s been a couple of years since, and he’s been in and out of Spain quite a lot, nothing has happened to him.

No fines, no knuckles wrapped, no telling off for behind a bad lad , nothing.

 

[jumar]

That’s totally incorrect. U.K. residents do qualify for the visa and can apply if they intend to stay longer than 90 days. It’s not a grey area- there are criteria to meet and if you meet them you get the visa. It’s as simple as that. There seems to be a feeling from some on here that EU countries don’t want U.K. travellers visiting their countries and will do all they can to keep them out, limit them to 90 days etc. In my experience, every country I spent time in over the last 4 months is crying out for more U.K. visitors. If anything they see the 90 day rule as detremental to their struggling hospitality industries and I would guess are more likely to bend the rules than rigorously enforce them. At Calais, after spending 130 days in EU I made a point of mentioning the visa. The guy shrugged as if to say ‘I don’t really care’. I’m pretty sure he’d have waived us through without that anyway.
As with any bureaucracy, they have boxes to tick on the visa process. Answer the questions to provide the answers they want and you’ll get the visa, no problem.

Well to sum up....I agree to disagree..nothing more to add to this thread other than to say the Costas are rammed, very few Brits are around, both our sightings and that of the occasional Brit van owner we might chat with, the Brit Bars might be closing, because the Brit clientele are not here, however other nationalities are having a great time, Spain will still be Spain in 20/30/40 years without British long stay customers.....we have never heard anyone crying out "Where are the Brits, we need you" on our resort, we are taking table bookings 3 days in advance....we are totally fully booked out until September....that's 20km inland....Impact....no Impact whatsoever....Anyone ever says Spain needs us is talking total rubbish.. Go 20km off the Costas where tourists rarely venture and mention Br***t it will be a nil response...
Spain is not dependant on Tourism...the Costas are, they were expanded for that reason......the rest of Spain couldn't give a toss...

 

[Dwarfland]

With respect..you’re at the coast, I guess in the South. Have you driven down through Central Spain recently? Hospitality in small towns away from tourist areas has literally been destroyed by Covid. I lost count of the number of small towns which have lost ALL their bars/restaurants. As in any country, the popular tourist areas aren’t representative of the nation as a whole. Believe me, the owners of campsites, Aires, restaurants, bars etc ARE missing British visitors. How do I know? Because they told me.

 

[Littlewheels]

Spain is not dependant on Tourism...the Costas are, they were expanded for that reason......the rest of Spain couldn't give a toss..

I have to disagree with you Tourism spreads it’s wing wide, you know l have stayed at a Camper Stop on extended stays in your town and the owners are very clear on the loss of trade they are experiencing, so many of their regular visitors are not coming.Those that do cut down on the stay this of course effects spending in the town.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jongood]

With respect..you’re at the coast, I guess in the South. Have you driven down through Central Spain recently? Hospitality in small towns away from tourist areas has literally been destroyed by Covid. I lost count of the number of small towns which have lost ALL their bars/restaurants. As in any country, the popular tourist areas aren’t representative of the nation as a whole. Believe me, the owners of campsites, Aires, restaurants, bars etc ARE missing British visitors. How do I know? Because they told me.

Us too, especially places like Benidorm where a large proportion were brits. and good luck trying to replace them with other nations, the German s pay fairly but the French and especially the Dutch dont. we've seen the dutch sharing drinks.

 

[jumar]

I have to disagree with you Tourism spreads it’s wing wide, you know l have stayed at a Camper Stop on extended stays in your town and the owners are very clear on the loss of trade they are experiencing, so many of their regular visitors are not coming.Those that do cut down on the stay this of course effects spending in the town.

Yes I know....but you are referring to a small time business that was promoted by us, when we left there was no continuity, and the Camperstop would suffer due to this....
Where we are now its rammed, the area has 7 campsites and a couple of camperstops....the sites are full and have been since the end of lockdown....our resort where we have a Golf Penthouse,is in itself totally full....with a big proportion of Spanish and English... restaurant reservations need to be made 2 or 3 days in advance...
Benidorm was overbuilt, too many of the same Brit Bars, when Brit numbers reduced these places died to a controllable number..
Both Covid and the other issue have jointly had an impact on tourism...a major factor is staffing the Brit Bars with Brit seasonal workers which is no longer allowed..

 

[jumar]

Us too, especially places like Benidorm where a large proportion were brits. and good luck trying to replace them with other nations, the German s pay fairly but the French and especially the Dutch dont. we've seen the dutch sharing drinks.

Too many Brit bars to start with....reduce the clientele and some have to go, also there is a staffing problem with seasonal workers no longer being here....another benefit of Br***t...

 

[nicholsong]

Ignoring the effects on tourism for a moment.

Going back to those wo have or are proposing that the 180 days of a French visa can be accumulated with the 90 days permitted under Schengen 90/180 rules.

If one presents oneself to exit France for the UK after 270 days is one not open to accusations of overstaying? And is there legislation in force which can prove the right to accumulate the French 180 day visa with the Schengen 90 day allowance in one's defence?

Similarly if one used the 180 days in France and then went to Spain for the 90 day Schengen allowance, then exiting via Santander would the Spanish authorities accept the French 180 day visa as being an exemption from the 90/180 Schengen rule?

In both cases the entry into Schengen was 270 days before exit.

 

[gus-lopez]

Interestingly I was told that EU citizens still get 180 visa free days in U.K. which is widely seen as an anomaly that needs to be addressed.

The UK was stuck eith that as they refused to require registering for residency and allowed 180 days as it suited them so as not to have the seasonal workers requiring visas. Not discussing it during WA meant it remains the same.
On 3 occasions in the last 9 years I have been warned before entering/whilst entering that I can only stay 180 days.

Does anyone know (rather than ‘heard of’) anyone who has been fined or penalised in anyway for overstaying 90 days, because I don’t.

Yes 2 or 3 have posted on here.
Switzerland(yes they operate EU rules on schengen) Romania,Germany, come to mind.

At the Visa office, 99% of those getting a France visa were Chinese students obviously studying in Britain.

How doesvtgat wirk then when you are required to apply for it in your country of which you are a national?
Even I, as a permanent spanish resident, have to supply at French embassy in London in person.

Have you driven down through Central Spain recently?

Yes and everywhere I went was business as usual.

Hospitality in small towns away from tourist areas has literally been destroyed by Covid.

I don't think thst is due to tourists but locals stopped from going out,restricted nightlife,curfews etc.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[MarionK]

Ignoring the effects on tourism for a moment.

Going back to those wo have or are proposing that the 180 days of a French visa can be accumulated with the 90 days permitted under Schengen 90/180 rules.

If one presents oneself to exit France for the UK after 270 days is one not open to accusations of overstaying? And is there legislation in force which can prove the right to accumulate the French 180 day visa with the Schengen 90 day allowance in one's defence?

Similarly if one used the 180 days in France and then went to Spain for the 90 day Schengen allowance, then exiting via Santander would the Spanish authorities accept the French 180 day visa as being an exemption from the 90/180 Schengen rule?

In both cases the entry into Schengen was 270 days before exit.

Early on in this thread, Dwarfland says he was told that he was still allowed the 90 Schengen days on top of his French visa. There has been some discussion that a person might be required to leave France at the end of the 6 month visa, and then re-enter the Schengen zone, but this seems daft to me. Especially in the light of the fact that he visited other countries in the period and it didn't reduce his 90/180 allowance. France is part of Schengen, why would you have to leave and re-enter? (Rhetorical Q)
I think for simplicity's sake, you can regard yourself as being a temporary 'citizen' of France with the same travel rights for the duration of the 6m visa, you then revert to being a non Schengen (also non US etc.) with the appropriate travel rights still untouched.

 

[Carpmart]

Early on in this thread, Dwarfland says he was told that he was still allowed the 90 Schengen days on top of his French visa. There has been some discussion that a person might be required to leave France at the end of the 6 month visa, and then re-enter the Schengen zone, but this seems daft to me. Especially in the light of the fact that he visited other countries in the period and it didn't reduce his 90/180 allowance. France is part of Schengen, why would you have to leave and re-enter? (Rhetorical Q)
I think for simplicity's sake, you can regard yourself as being a temporary 'citizen' of France with the same travel rights for the duration of the 6m visa, you then revert to being a non Schengen (also non US etc.) with the appropriate travel rights still untouched.

I still think my earlier post #16 cover the practical scenario of using the 180 day visa.

Effectively the clock starts ticking on entry to France and you have to leave after 180 days. Period!

As you will not have used your Schengan third country status during the last 180 days, then you can of course re enter immediately for up to 90 days…. Simple as that!

What you really need to do is leave France at a border on the mainland at 180 days and get your passport stamped. Any EU French border will do.. you may have to find someone to stamp you out mind… there must be a border somewhere with France (Swiss maybe?) where there are French border officials ‘on hand’?

 

[nicholsong]

Early on in this thread, Dwarfland says he was told that he was still allowed the 90 Schengen days on top of his French visa. There has been some discussion that a person might be required to leave France at the end of the 6 month visa, and then re-enter the Schengen zone, but this seems daft to me. Especially in the light of the fact that he visited other countries in the period and it didn't reduce his 90/180 allowance. France is part of Schengen, why would you have to leave and re-enter? (Rhetorical Q)
I think for simplicity's sake, you can regard yourself as being a temporary 'citizen' of France with the same travel rights for the duration of the 6m visa, you then revert to being a non Schengen (also non US etc.) with the appropriate travel rights still untouched.

I was aware of Dwarfland's experience and advice he was given. That was from one officer at one port. I would not be happy if I had to use that to argue with a different officer at a different port, which was why I asked whether anybody had seen legislation which supports what he was told.

 

[jongood]

I was aware of Dwarfland's experience and advice he was given. That was from one officer at one port. I would not be happy if I had to use that to argue with a different officer at a different port, which was why I asked whether anybody had seen legislation which supports what he was told.

as Dwarfland didn't exceed the 180 days validity of his french visa he hasnt really tested whether he could have done 270 consecutive days. afaics anywhere he could get his passport stamped as leaving France would work, even parking up for a couple of days and flying out and back. its only the people they're interested in not the vehicle.

 

[nicholsong]

I took some time yesterday to look at the legislation which created the rules and its enforcement.

I only went so deep as there is a lot of it, and I am no longer a paid lawyer.

Firstly, very briefly, the Schengen Agreement was started by 5 countries and others joined later, including some but not all EU countries and also some non-EU countries. Its initial purpose was to agree free movement of the Citizens of Schengen States. The Agreement was separate from the structure of the EU. The EU adopted the Schengen Agreement by the Amsterdam Agreement of 1999 and requires EU Member States, but not all e.g. Cyprus, to adhere to Schengen Rules.

Aside from Schengen EU has always allowed EU Nation States to retain control of their borders.

Thus at present we have three parties involved in the control of these rules -

1 Schengen, including non-EU States e.g. Norway.

2 EU, which has some Schengen and some non-Schengen Members

3 Individual Nation States controlling their own borders. 'Competence' in EU-speak.

The EU and Schengen have laid down rules for entry and exit of Citizens from non-EU States. Howevr, we now have Nation States like France and Portugal allowing stays for non-EU citizens beyond the 90 days under the EU/Schengen rules. Fine one might say because the Nation States have retained their 'competence' to do this. This would be fine if the visas they issued were to confine the holders to time in thaqt state, but France in particular has announced that their visa permits entry to other Schengen States, but does not restrict that to the first 90 days from when they entered France, so also Schengen.

I have found no reference to whether EU/Schengen have accepted or are challenging the right of holders of these extended visas to breach the 90/180 rule.

Now we get to enforcement of EU/Schengen rules. EU's position is that it is for Nation States, not the EU, to enforce and fix penalties for breaches.

Obviously France and Portugal will not penalise a person for exceeding 90/180 when they hold a 180 day visa, but what will other countries do? Will they recognise the 180 day visa as exempting a holder for that period from the 90/180 rule and deem the 90/180 clock starts after that visa expiry date?

Thee are other complications brought about by the decision to issue visas which are not limited to one Nation State.

I think the issues are probably giving immigration authorities in several a few problems to solve. They might also want to form a united front on the issues but may find it hard to agree on one.

Then thee is the matter of training immigration personnel on the rules to be applied at their borders. This gets more complicated because there are EU Members that have territories within their jurisdiction which are not subject to EU/Schengen rules, e.g. France's oversees territories and even Norway's Svarlbad. Therefore there will be complex training needed, a big task.

My personal opinion is that the complications arising from having three parties involved in formulating how the different rules should be applied, together with the view of each Nation State and its implementation/training for policing the rules will make it difficult for them to enforce them.

I can foresee, at least in the near term, a very lax approach to how to deal with the situation.

We have already had some examples on this thread where apparent or potential breaches of the rules have not been pursued
by border officers.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}