Beating the 90/180 day Schengen rule

[Dwarfland]

Thats about right though I think it’s actually simpler than that. You have 180 days on a visa plus 90 visa free so in total 270 days. If you enter and exit through France I can’t see you having any problem within 270 days. (Actually based on my experience, unless he could see it on the system, I don’t think he was going to make any reference to us overstaying the 90. He really didn’t seem bothered. I know everyone obsesses about it but I really think they have bigger fish to fry than overstaying moho tourists)

 

[Realist]

I’m thick when it comes to all this visa crap so if me and wife got one a French visa could we then enter France via the tunnel, Drive to a French site for a night, go onto Spain, stay for say 260 days and leave via France to come back home.

 

[Dwarfland]

I’m thick when it comes to all this visa crap so if me and wife got one a French visa could we then enter France via the tunnel, Drive to a French site for a night, go onto Spain, stay for say 260 days and leave via France to come back home.

This was the debate on the 1st post. My view is that no one knows you left France so your visa has an exit date, If you leave within that you’re okay, and my understanding is the 90 visa free days is on top of that so there’s your 270. I’m sure there will be people in here who’ll say ‘they’ will know you’ve been in Spain but my experience suggests they’re most likely wrong. How would they know?

 

[jumar]

I’m thick when it comes to all this visa crap so if me and wife got one a French visa could we then enter France via the tunnel, Drive to a French site for a night, go onto Spain, stay for say 260 days and leave via France to come back home.

You claim to be Thick with all this Visa Crap...well my friend you are not alone....

 

[62272]

This was the debate on the 1st post. My view is that no one knows you left France so your visa has an exit date, If you leave within that you’re okay, and my understanding is the 90 visa free days is on top of that so there’s your 270. I’m sure there will be people in here who’ll say ‘they’ will know you’ve been in Spain but my experience suggests they’re most likely wrong. How would they know?

From my reading of it, the French Visa only allows you the same Schengen entitlement as you have anyway (90/180) outside of France (You can stay within France for the full Visa period, and within that same period up to 90/180 days within the non-France Schengen area).

You cannot directly attach your UK Schengen allowance, but would use this separately by leaving and re-entering the area with your UK passport being stamped.

You are correct in that it is open to abuse as the authorities would not really know the dates you have entered and left through the borderless states… it is left to your honesty, and the possibility of an investigation if it ever came to that, or if it was queried (which is probably unlikely).

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[Littlewheels]

Can anyone that’s applied recently advise on the time it took from Application to Completion.

 

[Dwarfland]

Can anyone that’s applied recently advise on the time it took from Application to Completion.

Mine took about 6 weeks. The biggest time lag is likely to be in getting your appointment at TLS offices. From memory, they open up appointments 30 days in advance but they get booked up quickly (mostly by Chinese students getting EU visas).Once we’d been to the offices we got the reply within a week, and you have to go again in person to get your passport back, they don’t do courier anymore.

 

[Dwarfland]

From my reading of it, the French Visa only allows you the same Schengen entitlement as you have anyway (90/180) outside of France (You can stay within France for the full Visa period, and within that same period up to 90/180 days within the non-France Schengen area).

You cannot directly attach your UK Schengen allowance, but would use this separately by leaving and re-entering the area with your UK passport being stamped.

You are correct in that it is open to abuse as the authorities would not really know the dates you have entered and left through the borderless states… it is left to your honesty, and the possibility of an investigation if it ever came to that, or if it was queried (which is probably unlikely).

Why do you think you can’t attach your 90 days to the visa 180 days? I haven’t seen that anywhere. You get 90 visa free days in each 180 day period. I’ve seen nothing which says how that can be used in addition to a visa.

 

[MisterB]

Why do you think you can’t attach your 90 days to the visa 180 days? I haven’t seen that anywhere. You get 90 visa free days in each 180 day period. I’ve seen nothing which says how that can be used in addition to a visa.

I asked this very question of Svetlana who works at the visa office. The answer I received was a very firm NO. You must leave via France (if you're using a French visa) and re-enter the EU using 90/180.
Whether that is the case in the 'real world' experiences of other travellers, we can only go off what is being reported. However, I for one will be following the guidance from the French Visa office (we will be applying for it next year I think). I am comfortable with travelling through other EU countries using my French Visa, though not for the full six months of it!

 

[Dwarfland]

I asked this very question of Svetlana who works at the visa office. The answer I received was a very firm NO. You must leave via France (if you're using a French visa) and re-enter the EU using 90/180.
Whether that is the case in the 'real world' experiences of other travellers, we can only go off what is being reported. However, I for one will be following the guidance from the French Visa office (we will be applying for it next year I think). I am comfortable with travelling through other EU countries using my French Visa, though not for the full six months of it!

Fair enough. TLS staff are generally helpful and knowledgable though I did receive different answers from different agents on occasion. I was told in one conversation that the multi entry visa allowed you to leave France and travel anywhere in Schengen without impacting the 90 days. This was then contradicted in subsequent conversations (although as has been discussed I’m now certain they have no way of knowing you’ve crossed borders providing your passport isn’t stamped)

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[MerlinUK]

Fair enough. TLS staff are generally helpful and knowledgable though I did receive different answers from different agents on occasion. I was told in one conversation that the multi entry visa allowed you to leave France and travel anywhere in Schengen without impacting the 90 days. This was then contradicted in subsequent conversations (although as has been discussed I’m now certain they have no way of knowing you’ve crossed borders providing your passport isn’t stamped)

Looking at the French Visa site it reads:

Long-stay visa​

For any stay in France exceeding 90 days, you are required to apply in advance for a long-stay vis. In this instance your nationality does not exempt you from requirements.
Whatever the duration of your planned stay, the duration of your long-stay visa must be between three months and one year. In order to extend your stay beyond the period of validity of your visa, you must apply for a residence permit at a prefecture.
During its period of validity, the long-stay visa is equivalent to a Schengen visa, enabling you to move around and stay in the Schengen Area outside France for periods not exceeding 90 days over any period of 180 consecutive days, under the same conditions as if you held a Schengen visa.

 

[Dwarfland]

Looking at the French Visa site it reads:

Long-stay visa​

For any stay in France exceeding 90 days, you are required to apply in advance for a long-stay vis. In this instance your nationality does not exempt you from requirements.
Whatever the duration of your planned stay, the duration of your long-stay visa must be between three months and one year. In order to extend your stay beyond the period of validity of your visa, you must apply for a residence permit at a prefecture.
During its period of validity, the long-stay visa is equivalent to a Schengen visa, enabling you to move around and stay in the Schengen Area outside France for periods not exceeding 90 days over any period of 180 consecutive days, under the same conditions as if you held a Schengen visa.

A bit confusing but I interpret that as it allows free movement in Schengen up to 90 days in addition to time in France (remember these visas are generally intended for non U.K., non EU residents, largely students from Asia). There’s nothing there saying you can’t use the visa and Schengen 90 day allowance together either ie 270 days as has been suggested on this thread.

 

[Dwarfland]

For completeness on this thread here’s the outcome now I’ve returned to U.K.

France 6 Month Visa- the Conclusion

I posted a few months ago about getting a 6 month multi entry France Visa to beat the 90/180 Schengen rule (link below) https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/beating-the-90-180-day-schengen-rule.261716/ This prompted a lot of debate so I thought I’d update now I’m back in U.K. We...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[nicholsong]

Looking at the French Visa site it reads:

Long-stay visa​

For any stay in France exceeding 90 days, you are required to apply in advance for a long-stay vis. In this instance your nationality does not exempt you from requirements.
Whatever the duration of your planned stay, the duration of your long-stay visa must be between three months and one year. In order to extend your stay beyond the period of validity of your visa, you must apply for a residence permit at a prefecture.
During its period of validity, the long-stay visa is equivalent to a Schengen visa, enabling you to move around and stay in the Schengen Area outside France for periods not exceeding 90 days over any period of 180 consecutive days, under the same conditions as if you held a Schengen visa.

I interpret that as meaning if you have a French six-month visa valid from 1st Jan to 30th June you can leave France to travel for 90 days within Schengen countries, but that has to be within the validity period of the visa(Jan-June).

This would not allow a stay up to 90 days in Schengen outside the Jan-June period so would negate the plan for 270 days.

What I have not seen stated officially is as follows:-

Obviously the French 6-month visa breaches the Schengen 90/180 rule, but has that been confirmed by Schengen as being valid?

Further, if it legally breaches the 90-day rule can the French 6-month visa period also be used as the 180 days period one must stay out of Schengen between 90 day periods?

I can foresee these longer visas combined with open borders causing a problem with enforcing the 90/180 day rule. I wonder whether the authorities really care and want to put resources into enforcing the rules.

 

[MarionK]

nicholsong Click on the link in the post above yours.

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[Dwarfland]

I interpret that as meaning if you have a French six-month visa valid from 1st Jan to 30th June you can leave France to travel for 90 days within Schengen countries, but that has to be within the validity period of the visa(Jan-June).

This would not allow a stay up to 90 days in Schengen outside the Jan-June period so would negate the plan for 270 days.

What I have not seen stated officially is as follows:-

Obviously the French 6-month visa breaches the Schengen 90/180 rule, but has that been confirmed by Schengen as being valid?

Further, if it legally breaches the 90-day rule can the French 6-month visa period also be used as the 180 days period one must stay out of Schengen between 90 day periods?

I can foresee these longer visas combined with open borders causing a problem with enforcing the 90/180 day rule. I wonder whether the authorities really care and want to put resources into enforcing the rules.

Interesting you say ‘breaches Schengen 90 days’. Does it breach it, supersede it or run alongside it?

To your point re the authorities caring, based on my experience and that of others I spoke to, I don’t think it’s high on their priority list. Interestingly I was told that EU citizens still get 180 visa free days in U.K. which is widely seen as an anomaly that needs to be addressed. Maybe the Schengen states think that if they start targeting U.K. overstayers, the likelihood is that their 180 will soon become 90 too?

Does anyone know (rather than ‘heard of’) anyone who has been fined or penalised in anyway for overstaying 90 days, because I don’t.

 

[jumar]

Interesting you say ‘breaches Schengen 90 days’. Does it breach it, supersede it or run alongside it?

To your point re the authorities caring, based on my experience and that of others I spoke to, I don’t think it’s high on their priority list. Interestingly I was told that EU citizens still get 180 visa free days in U.K. which is widely seen as an anomaly that needs to be addressed. Maybe the Schengen states think that if they start targeting U.K. overstayers, the likelihood is that their 180 will soon become 90 too?

Does anyone know (rather than ‘heard of’) anyone who has been fined or penalised in anyway for overstaying 90 days, because I don’t.

When the UK was granted a divorce from the EU it was able to make it's own rules, they decided on 180 days for us EU Citizens/Residents....Thank you...that enables us EU Residents/ Citizens to visit our family and friends...however as per the WA we Residents of the EU were restricted to 90 days in any other Schengen country in a 180, we accept that restriction and abide by it...
I have confidence in our Law enforcement agencies here in Spain and are quite aware that stopping of UK registered vehicles to make sure paperwork it in perfect order is a regular occurrence, this may or may not include entry into Spain or Schengen Zone...Good luck to anyone trying to get one over the Guardia Civil...

 

[nicholsong]

nicholsong Click on the link in the post above yours.

Yes I had read your experience in detail and it reflects the factual situation.

The point that i was making was that

What I have not seen stated officially is as follows:-

Perhaps I should have put that bit in bold in my post.

It is as though the EU/Schengen authorities do not want to recognise what individual States, like France and Portugal are doing within a internally borderless Europe.

 

[Dwarfland]

When the UK was granted a divorce from the EU it was able to make it's own rules, they decided on 180 days for us EU Citizens/Residents....Thank you...that enables us EU Residents/ Citizens to visit our family and friends...however as per the WA we Residents of the EU were restricted to 90 days in any other Schengen country in a 180, we accept that restriction and abide by it...
I have confidence in our Law enforcement agencies here in Spain and are quite aware that stopping of UK registered vehicles to make sure paperwork it in perfect order is a regular occurrence, this may or may not include entry into Spain or Schengen Zone...Good luck to anyone trying to get one over the Guardia Civil...

I often read about these frequent checks by the GC on here but I must be lucky. I’ve never been stopped and nor had anyone else I spoke to in Spain, including people who spend a lot of time there in moho’s. (As usual, the old 90/180 often came up in conversation). Therefore I’d have to say that targeting U.K. travellers doesn’t seem to be high on their agenda at present. Had we been stopped we were within the rules anyway- the France visa is multi entry so allows you to cross borders and we spent less than 90 days out of France (though how the GC would know that anyway I’ve no idea)

 

[Dwarfland]

Yes I had read your experience in detail and it reflects the factual situation.

The point that i was making was that

What I have not seen stated officially is as follows:-

Perhaps I should have put that bit in bold in my post.

It is as though the EU/Schengen authorities do not want to recognise what individual States, like France and Portugal are doing within a internally borderless Europe.

It’s not just France and Portugal though. Every country in the world issues tourist/student or business visas. It’s just that we’ve got used to not needing them to travel within Europe. Forget U.K. passport holders for a minute. At the Visa office, 99% of those getting a France visa were Chinese students obviously studying in Britain. As with us, their multi entry visa allows them to spend 6 months in France but the open borders will also let them visit neighbouring countries and they won’t have the 90 day allowance we have. Therefore I would guess they’re illegal when in those Schengen states? Who knows they’re there though?

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[Al n Val]

I’m not sure what this discussion is about really

If you want to get the French visa and do your thing, then do so

Those who don’t, please stop trying to pick holes in everything and don’t, it really is that simple

 

[Dwarfland]

I’m not sure what this discussion is about really

If you want to get the French visa and do your thing, then do so

Those who don’t, please stop trying to pick holes in everything and don’t, it really is that simple

I started the thread. I had a French 6 month visa and have just spent 4 months in France, Spain, Germany and a few days in Switzerland, Austria and Belgium. The intention was to let people know that you CAN still spend more than 90 days at a time in Europe. Of course some people will pick holes, as you can see in the first pages of the thread. I’m back in U.K. now having had no problems so hopefully many of the concerns raised have been allayed.

 

[Al n Val]

I started the thread. I had a French 6 month visa and have just spent 4 months in France, Spain, Germany and a few days in Switzerland, Austria and Belgium. The intention was to let people know that you CAN still spend more than 90 days at a time in Europe. Of course some people will pick holes, as you can see in the first pages of the thread. I’m back in U.K. now having had no problems so hopefully many of the concerns raised have been allayed.

Yes I know you did and good on you mate, it’s all the naysayers that i’m referring to

I started a thread ooh! about 18- 20 months ago regards my mate Will who comes and goes as he wants flying into Spain staying 4/5/6 months and nothing ever happens to him but the fallout I got on here was awful so now I don’t bother

 

[Dwarfland]

Yes I know you did and good on you mate, it’s all the naysayers that i’m referring to

I started a thread ooh! about 18- 20 months ago regards my mate Will who comes and goes as he wants flying into Spain staying 4/5/6 months and nothing ever happens to him but the fallout I got on here was awful so now I don’t bother

Seems to me that there are a lot of people who live their lives in fear of rules. And another group who seem to think ‘they’ (whoever ‘they’are) can and do track our every movement via biometric scans of motorists eyes, monitoring of credit card transaction etc etc. Also that EU border forces have nothing better to do than persecute generally law abiding U.K. citizens in motorhomes. When I started the thread and was still away, that was the general view from many. Now I’m back, hopefully people will realise that those things are all highly improbable.

 

[jumar]

I often read about these frequent checks by the GC on here but I must be lucky. I’ve never been stopped and nor had anyone else I spoke to in Spain, including people who spend a lot of time there in moho’s. (As usual, the old 90/180 often came up in conversation). Therefore I’d have to say that targeting U.K. travellers doesn’t seem to be high on their agenda at present. Had we been stopped we were within the rules anyway- the France visa is multi entry so allows you to cross borders and we spent less than 90 days out of France (though how the GC would know that anyway I’ve no idea)

The Guardia are not targeting UK Travellers, but show a great interest in UK or GB plated vehicles due to there being leftovers from the end of the transition period..
Tickets are issued frequently for the most minor of offences...many pay this quickly to get a discount...with not even knowing what they have done wrong....everyone should ensure their paperwork is flawless.... especially including current insurance and vehicle docs....

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[Dwarfland]

The Guardia are not targeting UK Travellers, but show a great interest in UK or GB plated vehicles due to there being leftovers from the end of the transition period..
Tickets are issued frequently for the most minor of offences...many pay this quickly to get a discount...with not even knowing what they have done wrong....everyone should ensure their paperwork is flawless.... especially including current insurance and

 

[Dwarfland]

As I said, obviously I’ve been lucky as they’ve never shown any interest in me, even when parked overnight in ‘grey area’ locations.

 

[MerlinUK]

Yes I know you did and good on you mate, it’s all the naysayers that i’m referring to

I started a thread ooh! about 18- 20 months ago regards my mate Will who comes and goes as he wants flying into Spain staying 4/5/6 months and nothing ever happens to him but the fallout I got on here was awful so now I don’t bother

There are always some who want to "pick a fight" or who are simply trolls. This site it supposed to be FUN.

 

[Minxy]

There are always some who want to "pick a fight" or who are simply trolls.

Al started a discussion on the regs and how they were interpreted and, apparently, intentionally abused which as you can imagine didn't go down very well. It was an interesting thread and not meant to be 'fun' as some things aren't funny.

This site it supposed to be FUN.

Which it is but not everything on it is funny.

 

[Ian Bosman]

Prison cell?! Yeah I’m sure they’re going to go that far. The point is I have a Visa which allows 180 days, at worst but not clear, in France alone. On top of that I have the 90 days in Schengen which is ‘Visa free travel’. Therefore whichever way you look at it, the France visa allows up to 180 days in France (and it’s multi entry) plus 90 in any Schengen country.

I have just returned from Germany after a 18 day stay entering via Dunkirk from Dover and returning from Calais to Dover. In both the exit and entry to the UK my passport was checked and stamped by the French and the UK verified that it had been done so unless they do not check you will be subject to the 90 days in 180 days rule. My passport is well used with several visa pages (non European) so it takes quite a bit of searching to find the page which had my French immigration stamp and the same page has their exit stamp. It seems to me that once you are in the Schengen area regardless of the entry port you are in for the maximum of 90 days unless you have already entered earlier. What the penalties are i have no idea but no doubt someone will tell me exactly what.

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