Beating the 90/180 day Schengen rule

[Dwarfland]

Can I be the first to ask where you can get a 600€ Spanish tourist visa...have you got one, do you know anyone that has got one?
There will be loads of second home owners in Spain who would like to join you...Please tell all....this is an open forum....

No I got a French 6 month one as its only €99. The Spain one is called a non lucrative visa.
Link here-

Non Lucrative Visa Spain - Spanish Residence Permit

visaguide.world

I must admit I didn’t look in detail at this one but my understanding is it’s the same as the French one. Basically you have to show you have adequate funds to support yourself while in the country. It’s a lot of paperwork and red tape and with the French one you have to go in person to the visa office for them to collect the biometric data. Then you get a 6 mth visa stuck in your passport like any other visa.

 

[bobandjanie]

All this Schengen stuff seems very complicated.....
We live in n.ireland which is part of the UK , as well as a UK passport we are also lucky enough to have Irish passports , with the rest of Ireland still being part of the EU , If we travel to France using our Irish passports how long can I stay ,, same goes for Spain, anyone any ideas how long

Having an Irish passport you are not under the 90 / 180 rules, but after 90 days you should register your presents then you can stay longer but remember over 183 days your be a tax resident on all your assets, you could have 90 in France 90 in Spain 90 in Portugal and so on, but other things come into it like how long your vehicle can be in a particular country, some Irish say you can stay as long as you like, but you can't without applying for residency, then if you have a UK driving licence it's a nightmare at the moment. Bob

 

[Dwarfland]

As long as you only cross open Schengen borders Dwarfland do you really think you can stay under the radar, they don't need anyone sat at the borders it's all done electronic with cameras, they have all the information they need in a second, try and self scan at the airport without looking directly at the camera.
We rent our apartment out for holiday rental guests, like hotels/ campsites and anywhere else you stay we have to register all guests over 16 on the Gardia Civil computer, your never under the radar we have been parked on Denia beach carpark and had our passport checked.
There is no such thing as Open borders, many criminals are captured be it road or sea, and many that lived in Spain and never applied for residency for one reason or another were deported.
It's compulsory to carry identification and all vehicle documents, and it's up to you to prove where you have been and when.
I find the police in Europe very different from UK, nothing is too much paperwork or trouble. Bob.

I’ve gone France-Spain-France-Switzerland-Germany-Austria-Germany-France. No one has checked my passport after entering EU. Yes the vehicle reg will have been logged crossing all borders but there is no link between a vehicle Reg plate and a passport holder. Or do you think they have biometric facial recognition at land borders which can somehow recognise and log passport holders as they fly pass at 70mph??

I entered Schengen through a French port, I’ll exit through a French port. Those are the only points my passport will be logged and my visa gives me a 6 month period in which to do that. It’s multi entry too so I am allowed to leave France and enter other Schengen countries. If someone, somehow has managed to track when I did that, I still have my 90 visa free Schengen days, and I’m within that allowance.

I’ll probably do 5 months on this trip but I don’t have to clock watch the 90 days. For me that makes the €99 French visa well worth the money.

 

[Fulham Dave]

Having an Irish passport you are not under the 90 / 180 rules, but after 90 days you should register your presents then you can stay longer but remember over 183 days your be a tax resident on all your assets, you could have 90 in France 90 in Spain 90 in Portugal and so on, but other things come into it like how long your vehicle can be in a particular country, some Irish say you can stay as long as you like, but you can't without applying for residency, then if you have a UK driving licence it's a nightmare at the moment. Bob

Hi Bob,

We have Irish passports and UK licences. We have been in Spain for 5 months, France for 5 months and now Croatia for the past 5 weeks without any issues.

I am curious to know why does having a UK licence become a nightmare? What should I be looking out for / aware of?

Dave

 

[bobandjanie]

When you enter France your in the system, it doesn't matter while your in the schengen zone, they watch everyone not just terrorists and drug runners, big brother is watching. Bob.

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[Dwarfland]

When you enter France your in the system, it doesn't matter while your in the schengen zone, they watch everyone not just terrorists and drug runners, big brother is watching. Bob.

Back to the point though..you said there are no open land borders and ‘they’ know where I’ve been and when. How? They may know where a vehicle registered to me was (if they could be bothered to check) but they don’t know who was in that vehicle at the time. And yes I’m sure there exists the capability to go back and look at border control images etc if my vehicle was, for instance involved in a serious crime, but I doubt that data is readily available.

 

[MarionK]

Why would you need two though? As per the initial thread, just get a 6 month French Visa. (You can get the equivalent for Spain but it costs €600 v €99 for the French one). As long as you only cross open Schengen borders and enter and exit through France, No one knows where in Schengen you have been during the 6 months. (Although it is a multi entry visa so you are allowed into other Schengen countries although ‘officially’ that decrements your 90 day allowance though in reality no one knows)

I thought it might let me off the hassle of visa application. I have been reading your thread with interest.
Although I speak French pretty well, I'm more interested in Portugal for long term stay. I've not found anywhere with details of cost though, nor detailed requirements. e.g. How do you prove your 'ability to support yourself'?

 

[jumar]

I’ve gone France-Spain-France-Switzerland-Germany-Austria-Germany-France. No one has checked my passport after entering EU. Yes the vehicle reg will have been logged crossing all borders but there is no link between a vehicle Reg plate and a passport holder. Or do you think they have biometric facial recognition at land borders which can somehow recognise and log passport holders as they fly pass at 70mph??

I entered Schengen through a French port, I’ll exit through a French port. Those are the only points my passport will be logged and my visa gives me a 6 month period in which to do that. It’s multi entry too so I am allowed to leave France and enter other Schengen countries. If someone, somehow has managed to track when I did that, I still have my 90 visa free Schengen days, and I’m within that allowance.

I’ll probably do 5 months on this trip but I don’t have to clock watch the 90 days. For me that makes the €99 French visa well worth the money.

Brilliant....at last, someone who understands how Schengen can be beaten..
As for anyone wanting to do the same in Spain Forget it....
The NLV is the first step to obtaining Spanish Residential Status...not a Tourist Visa...once obtained you apply for your TIE, then you will be required, to change your vehicle registration, obtain a Spanish driving license, live in Spain and become a tax resident...you need to prove your worth, your financial status and a criminal free record.
During your first 5 years of residence status you will only be allowed to be out of Spain for a maximum of two months per year....
NLV is a one off issue....your gateway to resident status in Spain....

 

[Littlewheels]

So let me get this correct, they pick up the overstay Tourist but ignore all the Tow-rags and Pickpockets, Motorhome and the rest Robbers, ATM scammers.

 

[bobandjanie]

Hi Bob,

We have Irish passports and UK licences. We have been in Spain for 5 months, France for 5 months and now Croatia for the past 5 weeks without any issues.

I am curious to know why does having a UK licence become a nightmare? What should I be looking out for / aware of?

Dave

At the moment there is still no agreement with the UK and Spain and loads of residents here had to change to Spanish registered cars, and can no longer drive then when their licence expired without taking a Spanish driving test.
Croatia is out the zone at the moment, but they have always checked you in and out. Bob.

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[Fulham Dave]

At the moment there is still no agreement with the UK and Spain and loads of residents here had to change to Spanish registered cars, and can no longer drive then when their licence expired without taking a Spanish driving test.
Croatia is out the zone at the moment, but they have always checked you in and out. Bob.

Hi Bob,

So it only applies if you are a resident of Spain?

French customs waved us through without swiping the passports, Croatian customs guy did the same, but told me that I could only enter if I promised I would stare into my wife's eyes and tell her I loved her over our first drink in Croatia

 

[Dwarfland]

I thought it might let me off the hassle of visa application. I have been reading your thread with interest.
Although I speak French pretty well, I'm more interested in Portugal for long term stay. I've not found anywhere with details of cost though, nor detailed requirements. e.g. How do you prove your 'ability to support yourself'?

With the French one, you have to provide details of your planned itinerary and an estimate of daily costs, then provide copies of 6 months bank statements. Basically you have to show you have more than enough funds to cover your expenses for the period you’ll be there.

 

[Dwarfland]

Brilliant....at last, someone who understands how Schengen can be beaten..
As for anyone wanting to do the same in Spain Forget it....
The NLV is the first step to obtaining Spanish Residential Status...not a Tourist Visa...once obtained you apply for your TIE, then you will be required, to change your vehicle registration, obtain a Spanish driving license, live in Spain and become a tax resident...you need to prove your worth, your financial status and a criminal free record.
During your first 5 years of residence status you will only be allowed to be out of Spain for a maximum of two months per year....
NLV is a one off issue....your gateway to resident status in Spain....

Didn’t realise it’s the first step in a process, as I said, I saw the cost and opted for the French one…which is a long stay tourist visa. No need for me to move here at the end of it , though looking at property prices I’m pretty tempted!

 

[gus-lopez]

Or do you think they have biometric facial recognition at land borders which can somehow recognise and log passport holders as they fly pass at 70mph??

Yes ,all works these days. UK pulls stills off mway cameras. Spanish pegasus dpeedccamera system can identify driver wearing of seat belt using phone ,etc from 3km distance at a height of 500m

 

[Dwarfland]

Yes ,all works these days. UK pulls stills off mway cameras. Spanish pegasus dpeedccamera system can identify driver wearing of seat belt using phone ,etc from 3km distance at a height of 500m

Of course that capability exists but do you think that at all Schengen land borders they have cameras which facially recognise and log all drivers and passengers? What if my wife was in the back seat? What if I had the sun visor down or a Covid mask and shades on? I know there’s a lot of deep state conspiracists on here who believe it but I’m sorry, I find it implausible.

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[MarionK]

With the French one, you have to provide details of your planned itinerary and an estimate of daily costs, then provide copies of 6 months bank statements. Basically you have to show you have more than enough funds to cover your expenses for the period you’ll be there.

Good grief that's almost worse than I thought! lmao, I have absolutely no clue what my expenses might be. I'll probably go a couple of times without a visa first though, so I guess I'll just have to keep proper record of how much I spend, and go from there.

 

[Realist]

Can someone answer the following question.

Does the below mean individual income combined husband and wife and dependents are he kids?

Proof of sufficient income. The most important part of your application! If you fail here, your application will be rejected for sure. You need to prove you have a minimal amount of about 2,150€ per month, and an extra 535€ per month for every dependent you plan to bring with you.

 

[Dwarfland]

Good grief that's almost worse than I thought! lmao, I have absolutely no clue what my expenses might be. I'll probably go a couple of times without a visa first though, so I guess I'll just have to keep proper record of how much I spend, and go from there.

Or do it the other way round. You know what’s in the bank so work back from that and have a punt at daily expenses to come under the amount you have!

 

[Dwarfland]

Can someone answer the following question.

Does the below mean individual income combined husband and wife and dependents are he kids?

Proof of sufficient income. The most important part of your application! If you fail here, your application will be rejected for sure. You need to prove you have a minimal amount of about 2,150€ per month, and an extra 535€ per month for every dependent you plan to bring with you.

Where’s that from? I had a long discussion with TLS (who are the outsourced agency who process most country’s visas) after seeing a few random figures quoted online. They told me there is no set amount (for France anyway). You have to provide a plan with reasonable estimate of spend and show you can cover that. I was careful to point out that I wouldn’t need hotels and we’d be eating in the van most nights so my daily spend would be less than a ‘normal’ tourist. However you obviously need to add in a reasonable amount for sites/Aires and fuel. My advice would be to state your expenses as high as you can cover- After all, if you say you’re wild camping every night and spending nothing in local businesses, why would they want you there?

 

[Bart]

Having an Irish passport you are not under the 90 / 180 rules, but after 90 days you should register your presents then you can stay longer but remember over 183 days your be a tax resident on all your assets, you could have 90 in France 90 in Spain 90 in Portugal and so on, but other things come into it like how long your vehicle can be in a particular country, some Irish say you can stay as long as you like, but you can't without applying for residency, then if you have a UK driving licence it's a nightmare at the moment. Bob

Thanks for the super informative info , I have a N.Ireland driving license , so yip basically a UK license.

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[jumartoo]

Can someone answer the following question.

Does the below mean individual income combined husband and wife and dependents are he kids?

Proof of sufficient income. The most important part of your application! If you fail here, your application will be rejected for sure. You need to prove you have a minimal amount of about 2,150€ per month, and an extra 535€ per month for every dependent you plan to bring with you.

The primary applicant has to have the larger amount, everyone else the extra 535€, including spouse.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Our friends have just paid for a 6 month tourist visa for Canada. Rather than going to Europe.

They have a house in France that they now won’t visit for at least a year.

France & Europe’s loss.

They didn’t say how much. But I guess it must be worth it.

 

[Dwarfland]

The primary applicant has to have the larger amount, everyone else the extra 535€, including spouse.

Bear in mind though that the figures quoted online are for a ‘normal’ visitor who may need hotels, restaurants etc. You need to provide a covering letter (for France you do anyway) and in that, make very clear that you will be in a motorhome/ camping car so won’t need hotels. The amount you will need should therefore be less. You should include an amount for sites though as saying you’ll be wild camping every night may give the wrong impression!

 

[jumartoo]

Bear in mind though that the figures quoted online are for a ‘normal’ visitor who may need hotels, restaurants etc. You need to provide a covering letter (for France you do anyway) and in that, make very clear that you will be in a motorhome/ camping car so won’t need hotels. The amount you will need should therefore be less. You should include an amount for sites though as saying you’ll be wild camping every night may give the wrong impression!

But this is in Spain to get a NLV to apply for a TIE to be resident. Nothing to do with touring. There isn't a visa for that.

 

[StephandJohn]

I'm confused now so I think I'll stop watching this for the moment. Don't need to know until next year so maybe things will have changed by then.
See you all on another topic I expect.

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[MarionK]

Or do it the other way round. You know what’s in the bank so work back from that and have a punt at daily expenses to come under the amount you have!

Does it have to be cash in the bank? What about money in investments, and income? I presume a regular bank savings account is ok . . . but maybe not? (As it's not easily accessible.)

 

[Dwarfland]

Does it have to be cash in the bank? What about money in investments, and income? I presume a regular bank savings account is ok . . . but maybe not? (As it's not easily accessible.)

My understanding is that it needs to be liquid funds rather than investments. Therefore an instant access ISA or savings account is fine but something like shares or a SIP pension isn’t. Basically they want to see that you have enough ready cash to cover day to day costs while in the country.

 

[jumar]

My understanding is that it needs to be liquid funds rather than investments. Therefore an instant access ISA or savings account is fine but something like shares or a SIP pension isn’t. Basically they want to see that you have enough ready cash to cover day to day costs while in the country.

 

[Minxy]

Does it have to be cash in the bank? What about money in investments, and income? I presume a regular bank savings account is ok . . . but maybe not? (As it's not easily accessible.)

As below:

My understanding is that it needs to be liquid funds rather than investments. Therefore an instant access ISA or savings account is fine but something like shares or a SIP pension isn’t. Basically they want to see that you have enough ready cash to cover day to day costs while in the country.

They'll need you to have available funds for when you need it, not something that you have but can't use if the need arises. Credit cards with good balances on them, accessible bank and savings accounts etc will be the proof they need and if you have a regular income then that would show as income in your bank account.

 

[Littlewheels]

My interpretation would be this.

French 180 day multi entry visa is just that, 180 calendar days. The clock starts from the start date of that visa and ends on the 180 day end date. One can enter and exit as many times as one should wish during that period. It’s not a bank of days to be used as I wish, to fill in Schengen gaps..

So, playing that out in the real world, I enter France from UK and the clock is ticking at the start date of my 180 day visa. I later enter Spain as an example, I am allowed to do this and my 90/180 Schengen is in play. The fact the border isn’t manned, I keep a record, proof would be great, fuel or other receipts. The French visa is still running, but I’m using an exit and entry to another EU country, so third National, so using my 90/180 days, remember the fixed term 180 day visa clock is still ticking.

In ‘actual’ practice, you can exit via France at 180 days without declaring any use of your 90/180 Schengen allowance should you stray over borders during your French visa stay. There is no one to enforce it..

You could also after your 180 day visa, turn around and head back as a third county tourist with a stamp in the passport and the clock ticking on your 90 days.

I realise this post was some time ago but just to say a common sense approach to it.

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