Beating the 90/180 day Schengen rule

[gpat]

Are you sure ? If you have a vehicle that is registered to you, the police have a pnc data base that can check you are the owner. Insurance details, Mot and the status of your licence including any points or if you are banned etc. they can also call up your photo. If you apply for a licence renewal your current photo from your passport can be used, therefore a link between your passport and driving licence has been established.

“To renew online, you’ll need to:

• have a valid UK passport
• be a resident of Great Britain - there’s a different process in Northern Ireland
• pay £14 by MasterCard, Visa, Electron or Delta debit or credit card (there’s no fee if you’re over 70 or have a medical short period licence)
• provide addresses of where you’ve lived over the last 3 years
• have your driving licence (if you do not have your driving licence you must say why as part of your application)
• have your National Insurance number (if you know it)
• not be disqualified from driving

DVLA will get the photo and signature for your new driving licence from your passport. If this is not possible you will not be able to change your photo online.”

They could do all that. But do you really think the police are that interested in someone over staying their 90days. I reckon they have better things to do.

 

[Skez]

They could do all that. But do you really think the police are that interested in someone over staying their 90days. I reckon they have better things to do.

I don't think the police will be in the slightest bit interested unless something else bring you to their attention. However it will be the border controls which pick up on it. So I have a couple of thoughts on this:-

a) We, as a nation, voted to leave the EU - we therefore should abide by the rules, whether it be limits on the number of days we can be in the Schengen Zone, or what foodstuffs we take into the EU. If we didn't want to abide by the rules of being a Third Country we should have voted to stay - Oh, but there were some who thought (think??) - Nah, that won't happen / won't apply to us / that's a stupid rule / that's not enforceable etc. More fool.... I'd say show some respect for the countries you're visiting and their rules, as we'd expect them to respect our rules.

b) If you get caught out overstaying then you can have no redress whatsoever if it impacts on your future ability to visit. For me a fine, if imposed, would be almost irrelevant. The inability to return into the Zone would be significant.

c) Nothing wrong at all with using any available visa to extend your 90 days, but, and I've read loads around this, I believe that the France Tourist visa is just that - A France visa. I can't see that it allows unfettered access to the remainder of the Schengen zone. I'd be happy to be proved wrong, so I welcome pioneering spirits willing to test the system.

Hopefully in time the rules will all become clearer, or will be tweaked, but the problem is - and I have to keep reminding myself of this - the number of people that want, or are able to spend more than 90 days at a time abroad, is pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

 

[62272]

Long-stay visa - France-Visas

For any stay in France longer than 90 days, you are required to apply in advance for a long-stay visa, where your nationality does not exempt you from requirements.

france-visas.gouv.fr

Long-stay visa​

For any stay in France exceeding 90 days, you are required to apply in advance for a long-stay vis. In this instance your nationality does not exempt you from requirements.
Whatever the duration of your planned stay, the duration of your long-stay visa must be between three months and one year. In order to extend your stay beyond the period of validity of your visa, you must apply for a residence permit at a prefecture.
During its period of validity, the long-stay visa is equivalent to a Schengen visa, enabling you to move around and stay in the Schengen Area outside France for periods not exceeding 90 days over any period of 180 consecutive days, under the same conditions as if you held a Schengen visa.

 

[Skez]

During its period of validity, the long-stay visa is equivalent to a Schengen visa, enabling you to move around and stay in the Schengen Area outside France for periods not exceeding 90 days over any period of 180 consecutive days, under the same conditions as if you held a Schengen visa.

Exactly!

 

[Coolcats]

They could do all that. But do you really think the police are that interested in someone over staying their 90days. I reckon they have better things to do.

The police with ANPR deal with anything that pings up on their screen in the patrol car something minor as not having a valid tax disc its what they are paid to do not whether they are 'interested' ( and probably bored having to do so along with lame excuses why no tax disc). Overstaying 90 days my guess is that at the customs point you could get pulled.

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[Speve]

We are not talking about speeding, we are discussing entry to another country and overstaying, there is a theme running in these threads that it doesn't matter and no one will know...... Yes they will and I suspect the hardened repeat offender will get pulled up. Just like the guy who was arguing with ticket staff at the terminal about the Bikes on the back of his Motorhome who was pulled over........my guess is he had to pay the extra and may or may not have made the sailing he intended particularly as he was abusive and security was called.

I do read the thread and the speeding issue is one that could relate to all of the other obstacles being quoted if The British government do not give vehicle details to the EU it then stops the EU from interrogating the system thus less info for them to use and you did mention PNC and DVLA who will not be exchanging information

 

[Coolcats]

I’m not sure I see these threads in quite the way you do. The reason I and others are interested in working this out is so that (I believe) we can all stay the correct side of ‘the rules’. The rules are complicated and somewhat nuanced, hence the discussions.

Agreed understanding the rules is good, the thread title says "Beating the rules along side this is suggestions that the 'authorities' have no idea where you have been is not strictly correct and it is right to question this, if someone gets a 180 day Visa for France and thinks its OK to wander around Europe based on discussions here to "Beat the rules" rather than understanding and working within them is something else.

 

[philann]

Really ? So your driving a car that has been cloned the car has been reported as speeding if the court / police are unaware of a cloned vehicle it will be the driver/owner who will need to prove they were not in the area at that time.

Yes!

 

[bobandjanie]

I think you will find Uk are not exchanging details with EU there was an article somewhere about speeding fines on UK registered vehicles not being prosecuted due to this

That's strange because people in Spanish registered cars have had fines in the post after visiting the UK, for dartford toll, London congestion zones, parking and so on.
The local police here are often hanging around vehicles, illegal cars are soon off to a compound on the tow truck, so if you come back and your cars gone you will see a sticker on the curb. Bob.

 

[Coolcats]

I do read the thread and the speeding issue is one that could relate to all of the other obstacles being quoted if The British government do not give vehicle details to the EU it then stops the EU from interrogating the system thus less info for them to use and you did mention PNC and DVLA who will not be exchanging information

Indeed but there is equivalence in the other countries. So CoolCats buys a ticket on Eurotunnel this is known by bothe the UK and the EU for travel on X date, the ANPR picks up my number plate and it is logged as leaving the UK and entering the EU on that date both France and the UK know this has happened. As I drive through france and into Belgum my exit will be picked up by ANPR by both the French and Belgium systems all this data is logged time and date I don't need to keep typing as you will be getting the point your details will be logged. Time date location any overstay or journeying outside of an area is logged and can be used against you.


For those who want to appear to not have overstayed these would help

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[Speve]

That's strange because people in Spanish registered cars have had fines in the post after visiting the UK, for dartford toll, London congestion zones, parking and so on.
The local police here are often hanging around vehicles, illegal cars are soon off to a compound on the tow truck, so if you come back and your cars gone you will see a sticker on the curb. Bob.

I’m still trying to find the article it was in but from memory does not come into force till later this year

 

[Speve]

Indeed but there is equivalence in the other countries. So CoolCats buys a ticket on Eurotunnel this is known by bothe the UK and the EU for travel on X date, the ANPR picks up my number plate and it is logged as leaving the UK and entering the EU on that date both France and the UK know this has happened. As I drive through france and into Belgum my exit will be picked up by ANPR by both the French and Belgium systems all this data is logged time and date I don't need to keep typing as you will be getting the point your details will be logged. Time date location any overstay or journeying outside of an area is logged and can be used against you.


For those who want to appear to not have overstayed these would help

I have not said anything about overstaying and no intentions to do so I agree with Carpmart this all out for interesting discussion of the various ways forward but it seem that should anyone put something out there concerning solutions they are always met with complete negativity

 

[jongood]

a) We, as a nation, voted to leave the EU - we therefore should abide by the rules, whether it be limits on the number of days we can be in the Schengen Zone, or what foodstuffs we take into the EU. If we didn't want to abide by the rules of being a Third Country we should have voted to stay -

I disagree with this bit; I voted based on what I thought was best for the country/family etc. To base it solely on the impact on one's holiday/retirement plans would be incredibly selfish IMO.

 

[uzsnowdrop]

I disagree with this bit; I voted based on what I thought was best for the country/family etc. To base it solely on the impact on one's holiday/retirement plans would be incredibly selfish IMO.

I know someone who voted because he wanted his blue passport back . Hideous.

 

[Coolcats]

I know someone who voted because he wanted his blue passport back . Hideous.

You could always buy them a burgundy passport holder for their birthday

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[sciac2001]

One (perhaps) interesting side issue should you roam around other Schengen areas against the rules is what me and mine might experience when using our Gib ID cards when entering Schengen through the Gib/Spanish border which currently is a wave through.
The issue for us is that should we say, be touring Sicily with our unstamped passports and an emergency crop up - eg medical - and we need to fly home, unless we detour back to the Gib border we would be in schtukk! In an emergency, it would be a problem.

Great thread and so good to be kept updated by all. Thanks.

 

[nicholsong]

After all this posting I still cannot see how a recorded entry into and out of Schengen which exceeds 90 days, can be overridden by one country's issue of a 180-day visa, unless that country is deliberately ignoring its obligations by failing to enter the entry and exit into the Schengen system.

 

[sciac2001]

I tend to agree with nicholson. Much as it would be great if it wasn’t so.
Individual national agreements are currently possible within the EU. Gibraltar card holders are a case in point as we can only be waived through at the La Linea/Gib border. Although an EU overseeing exemption, it is mainly to help local specific interests.

 

[Coolcats]

I have not said anything about overstaying and no intentions to do so I agree with Carpmart this all out for interesting discussion of the various ways forward but it seem that should anyone put something out there concerning solutions they are always met with complete negativity

Apologies if you have read what is written as negative it is just pragmatic. There is a rule for 90 days and a 180 day visa application. We can all wish for things to be different and some will chance it and keep pushing what they believe they can get away with (and good luck to them if they do) but the only way rules can be changed is by getting governments to work together and put in place a rule framework that gives what people want rather than ‘Beating the system’ which the title says. Again if your reading this and think I am being negative I do apologise, it’s just pragmatism.

 

[Skez]

I disagree with this bit; I voted based on what I thought was best for the country/family etc. To base it solely on the impact on one's holiday/retirement plans would be incredibly selfish IMO.

I was referring to the wider picture in that respect, but such discussion not allowed here so I won't expand on my views. Suffice to say I've seen no benefit yet!

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[CumbriaPaul]

What I don't understand is that surely they'd like us to spend our money over there on food, drink, fuel, tolls, visiting places, etc. so what logical reason in there to limit our stays and therefore limit the spending? Presumably a brextit for tat thing, I suppose!

 

[slowdriver]

What I don't understand is that surely they'd like us to spend our money over there on food, drink, fuel, tolls, visiting places, etc. so what logical reason in there to limit our stays and therefore limit the spending? Presumably a brextit for tat thing, I suppose!

It is not tit for tat, it is just the conditions that all other citizens of all other Non-EU countries in the world experience, when seeking to travel in Europe. We voted to leave the EU, and therefore become a Non-EU country. This is one of the many many consequences. It's part of the sunlit uplands we were promised, albeit it still appears to be a little cloudy.

 

[Motörhead Fun]

Anyone got 2 UK Passports? Perfectly legal to apply

 

[nicholsong]

Anyone got 2 UK Passports? Perfectly legal to apply

You used to have to give a valid reason. In our company, handling large aircraft insurance claims worldwide, it was that we might get a country's stamp in a passport which was not acceptable for entry to another country, so we would need to produce the other passport.

I kept the two going for years after I left that company, just in case I lost one.

 

[Garry - June]

Yes the visa is only relevant to France...but as you say no borders.....however...and its a big point many fail to remember...if stopped by Police or border guards the onus is very much on the individual to prove exactly where and for how long you have been..it is not up to the authorities to prove you have overstayed your time anywhere...its up to you to prove you haven't...

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[mofurt]

What I don't understand is that surely they'd like us to spend our money over there on food, drink, fuel, tolls, visiting places, etc. so what logical reason in there to limit our stays and therefore limit the spending? Presumably a brextit for tat thing, I suppose!

Or, the other way around, surely we'd like Europeans coming over here spending money on food, drink etc. so what logical reason is there to limit their stays?

It would be nice for there to be a simple route to get an extended Schengen visa, similar to the US one (180 days per visit, valid 10 years), to avoid having this uncertainty when trying to extend stays (extending is probably a better phrase than beating the rules!).

 

[jongood]

Or, the other way around, surely we'd like Europeans coming over here spending money on food, drink etc. so what logical reason is there to limit their stays?

It would be nice for there to be a simple route to get an extended Schengen visa, similar to the US one (180 days per visit, valid 10 years), to avoid having this uncertainty when trying to extend stays (extending is probably a better phrase than beating the rules!).

Completely agree with your post but just wanting to point out that we do allow EU citizens to stay for 180 days and our team were appently asked if they wanted reciprical and they declined .

 

[jongood]

I was referring to the wider picture in that respect, but such discussion not allowed here so I won't expand on my views. Suffice to say I've seen no benefit yet!

There are pluses and minuses, like most things in life .

 

[Garry - June]

Or, the other way around, surely we'd like Europeans coming over here spending money on food, drink etc. so what logical reason is there to limit their stays?

It would be nice for there to be a simple route to get an extended Schengen visa, similar to the US one (180 days per visit, valid 10 years), to avoid having this uncertainty when trying to extend stays (extending is probably a better phrase than beating the rules!).

That may well happen at some point in the future but I somehow suspect the last few years with Covid and now looney tunes Putin may have focused attention elsewhere..

 

[Lynne Roy]

Well we are praying our passports are returned from the French consul, hopefully with a 180 day visa, as we are booked on the tunnel on Saturday x

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